Stay or go ?

[snugglebum20]

Background: Married 15 years, together 20. 2 DC (11-15yrs),1 SEN. Both work FT. I highly suspect he is ASD, this has gradually become apparent over the last 8 years so. He has social anxiety, history of depression, suspect Aspergers, bad/short temper (not at me and DC though). He earns around £18k more than me. 2 years ago moved into what is supposed to be our forever home. Spent a year renovating it, DC rooms decorated/furnished how they chose.

We do own laundry/cooking/buy own food/he has own bathroom towel/go out with own friends (we do see joint friends together, these are all his couple friends). I do food shop/laundry for me and DC, we both share cooking for DC. No sex for over a year (I want sex, just not with him). Things haven't been great for around 6 years. We don't argue, we just do our own thing and I keep out of his way. He keeps everything bottled up, doesn't do talking. If I ask him to do anything, ever, its seen as me having a go at him. He does very little around the house except for the garden (which he loves, but is designed as low maintenance), occasionally the bins and cooking for DC when he will then tidy kitchen. He has never cleaned/hoovered/DC laundry without being asked. Apparently he doesn't believe in making beds. He has never tided up unless its his own stuff, and that takes weeks for him to do. As an example - we currently have 15 large garden sofa cushions indoors waiting to be wrapped and put away for the winter. He knows we are doing this, but he just leaves them. I have brought them in and dried them out.

He is a gamer. He sits on the sofa all weekend gaming (PC)/watching TV. His favourite place is on the sofa, behind the laptop screen with TV remote/phone (gaming)/laptop (gaming). Cushions piled up behind him & food, snacks, plates etc scattered around him. He takes DC to football practice but unless I organise anything, he will sit there and game/watch TV. He says week-ends are for doing nothing. He games in the eves too. He is like a teenager. He is also WFH and the living room is his office. No one but him goes in the living room anymore as it smells, has his dirty socks/clothes around the place together with plates/food/cups/glasses. But he never questions why the rest of us don't go in there.

He is very ignorant/unaware of other people (me and DC being the foremost) and their considerations. I think this is due to his aspergers. I could type forever with examples of this !

My dilemma is do I turn everyone's world upside down and leave the marriage. This would mean:

1. Selling the house. There is no way either of us could afford to stay in it without the financial help of the other.
2. No more fantastic holidays for DC (we have taken DC on a few memorable ones). Although I would still take them away.
3. DC love the house and location, its perfect for schools and DC can walk. DC would still be in same schools but not near friends to walk to see them/to school.
4. A hell of a lot of anger, hate and bitterness from H towards me. He would be very nasty and fight over every last single penny.
5. Me and DC would have less money and a house in a shitty area of town. Financially it would be a tight strain for me, but doable - just. Currently, we never have to worry about money.
6. H would refuse to have DC so I can go away with friends once a year. No one else could have them. DC with SEN would never go to H house ever. He hates H most days. They clash as both ASD. I would have at least one child every single day with no rest time. H will also hate and resent me until the day I die.
7. I would lose friends (the couple friends that me and H see. They are his friends and we - I - get invited due to him, it would def stop on their behalf).
8. The toll on H mental health. Its not great at best of times.
9. I feel terribly guilty for wanting to leave and making us sell the house. H would lose his snooker table/sports game room and hot tub, both of which he loves. On his own he couldn't afford a house big enough to have those things again/take them with him.
10. I have never in my life gone it alone, ever. Obvs I will have DC.

If you have read this far then TY.

Would really appreciate some advice. H would never do counselling. I'm not interested in trying to fix the broken things.

Is this what you want for the next 10 or 20 years? Can you feel happy and full filled in these circumstances?

( I don't believe in making beds either!)

DC with SEN would never go to H house ever. He hates H most days. They clash as both ASD.

Do you genuinely think nice holidays compensate for how this must mean he feels every day?

How rigorously have you done the budgets you're basing "having to live in a shitty area" on? Is that after financial settlement and any support you'd be entitled to? Are there alternative non-shitty areas further out?

I ask because your list predominantly reads like someone catastrophising rather than any kind of balanced view.

It won't be easy but it does sound like you'd be able to build a better quality of life.

@Orangejuicemarathoner. TBH I'm unfulfilled and lonely when at home. I'm an active person, I cant stand watching TV and aimlessly flicking through all the channels. I will record stuff then watch it later when/if I have time. If a job needs doing then I'm very much in the mind of lets do it and get it out of the way.

The bed making is just one example of how different we are. We have different standards. I don't actually think he has standards !

He told me the other week that my birthday caused him great anxiety as he has no idea what to buy me or what I am expecting. We only do gifts from the DC. He could have gone into my wardrobe and seen my perfume bottles, taken a pic and ordered perfume online. He said 'no offense but I have no idea what you like or what you are interested in and I will never have an interest' .. after 20 years he has no idea ? I cried when he told me that.

By support I mean things like UC, council tax discount, etc.

Ouch. I'm not surprised you cried. That was cruel.

Be honest, he's not actually diagnosed ASD and having that diagnosis doesn't make people cruel dickheads. You seem to have latched onto it as a way to excuse what is just plain callous behaviour from him to make it more bearable.

You should not be trying to bear his mistreatment. Nor should the children.

He is just a nasty lazy shit.
I don't think that's in any way related to asd. He knows ppl are staying out of the living room because it's a shit tip, he just doesn't care. Infact, it gives him peace to game.

That comment he made about your birthday...yeah, narcissists don't like other people's birthdays. And they don't like you. And they like to remind you of that. They intend to take little stabs at your heart like that. I don't think it's asd. I think it's npd or similar. Not to say he can't have both..
but the vindictiveness you say you will get from him if you leave is a pretty clear sign you are dealing with a cluster b personality.

Absolutely time to leave. You don't want your kids growing up thinking they should accept this shit from a partner. Thinking its all they deserve because their mother thought it was all she deserved.

What are you getting out of this relationship now?.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here from you both?. This is no legacy to be leaving them.

In your husband you are not actually describing a man who could be (and you cannot assume he is particularly as he is undiagnosed) on an autistic spectrum. You're trying to make some sense of it all re him but you're going down a rabbit hole here. What you've been doing has not worked and is not helping you or your children here.

You're really describing someone who is supremely selfish, mean to a fault (the comment you made re him in relation to the kids and money is straight out of the Abusers 101 handbook) and self centered. ASD also does not equal ill treatment and abuse to you all like you're describing. His cruel comments to you re your birthday were absolutely designed to hurt you and I daresay he has always felt that way towards you. Abusive men hate women, all of them.

What if anything do you know about his own family background; that often gives clues too. It is likely that his own parents treated him the same as he now treats you.

Plan your exit starting now from this marriage with due care and attention. He is not your friend nor is going to behave any better with you going forward; he will be and behave just the same after you have eventually separated from him.

I also think your list of points has been made from a point of view of catastrophising rather than a balanced view of things. If indeed your H was to lose his hot tub and snooker table it would be no great loss. Why did you write that and why was that important to you?.

Womens Aid could be of great help to you here and I would urge you to contact both them and the Rights of Women organisations.

Put your own self and that of your children first for once, not him.

@AttilaTheMeerkat - from the relationship I currently get:
A lovely house
Not have to worry about money (within reason)
Freedom to do what I want/when I want (as in he can look after the DC when I go out/pop to the gym etc)
I can buy what I want when I want

His family - his brother and mother have mental health issues, his dad has temper/anger issues (as well as his brother, who has had counselling for it). His dad, brother and my H treated the mum like shit on their shoe and continue to do so.

My H is inconsiderate and thoughtless. He has no long term life plans, dreams, wants or wishes. He is lazy, but thinks he does loads in the house. He says he has no interest in hearing about my (sleep) dreams. He never asks me about my day/gym session/night out/anything. Likewise, I don't ask him either now. I have no interest. He seemingly has no interest in me. After 20 years he has no idea what I like perfume/beauty products (there are enough of them in the bathroom)/my clothes size/jewellery. If I have my period he refers to me as 'being blobbed up' how fucking childish. If I say I have period pains he just says to 'go and get yourself some tablets then'. He doesn't drink hot drinks, so no tea/coffee together in bed type of thing, which I would love. He is glued to his phone gaming. I recall one time it was 11pm, I was asleep in bed, he was going away with work the next day. he came into the bedroom, put the light on, threw a suitcase onto the bed and started packing. No thought to me being asleep in the bed. Unbelievable. of course, he remembers none of these examples and says I am making them all up.

I also have to whatsapp him everything so there is a record of me telling him/asking him something, so when he disputes it (which is most of the time) I then have the evidence to say he agreed to it etc.

They are material things.

Those are not reasons to stay with such a man and there’s nothing about feeling loved or at all respected.

You went onto marry someone whose own father treated his wife like shit. It’s of no real surprise that their own sons have become the self same, that is what they learnt about relationships from both their parents. You do not have to do what your MIL did here and further tolerate this of and from him. Your husband gaslights you also by trying to make your question your own reality. Such psychological abuse is extremely damaging.

You have a choice re this man, your children do not. You are not a rehab center for some badly raised man.

You only need to give your own self permission to leave him. He is not the boss of you.

@snugglebum20

I also have to whatsapp him everything so there is a record of me telling him/asking him something, so when he disputes it (which is most of the time) I then have the evidence to say he agreed to it etc.

You are describing being gaslighted.

Read up on gaslighting. It is an abuser tactic.

In your position, I think I might consider a 3-5 year plan for leaving. In the meantime, live my life as separately as possible and aggressively build up my savings. I would also speak to a solicitor immediately to know the best way for getting things ready to divorce. I would definitely, without a doubt, be leaving him, though. I could not waste the rest of my life shackled to that man.

To put it bluntly, take a read of the Stately Homes threads on this board, and all the threads started or contributed to by posters with inadequate family backgrounds. Far, far more children are fucked up and end up with issues which plague them into adulthood and blight their future prospects and relationships (including that with their parents as adults) than those who are negatively affected by having to live in a house (or shock horror - a flat) in a less middle class area of town and having to go camping rather than to Disneyworld.

You’ve already said that your DC dislike their father and he makes them miserable day to day. If you leave for no other reason, let it be that.

@Aquamarine1029 I have opened a bank account in my name. He knows nothing about it. I have gone FT and got promotion to increase my income. I potentially have a 6-8 month plan to leave ..if I can have the balls to leave. The balls to up end the whole family life, temporality throw it all into chaos and catch my part of it as it falls down from a great height.

As others have said, do it for your kids. Otherwise they will think this is normal; our parents' relationship is the blue print for ours. Happiness financially or spiritually- which is more important to you and your children?

[quote snugglebum20]@Aquamarine1029 I have opened a bank account in my name. He knows nothing about it. I have gone FT and got promotion to increase my income. I potentially have a 6-8 month plan to leave ..if I can have the balls to leave. The balls to up end the whole family life, temporality throw it all into chaos and catch my part of it as it falls down from a great height.[/quote]
In that case, I'd leave much sooner than my initial thoughts. The example being set for your kids is just awful. Meet with a solicitor ASAP.

You know what the answer is. I saw a very helpful comment here recently:

You can't throw away your past. It's already happened. You can only throw away your future.

As so many PPs say, this is not what you want for your children. And it plainly isn't working for you.

I think you've already done your time here OP. This man is truly awful.

I think you want to leave him you're just worried about money/ practicalities. Which shows you're a responsible parent.

Remember if you divorce him, you're likely to get the house as the DC will stay with you there until they leave. So you'll likely be able to stay in the house until your youngest is 18. (Of course, check this with a solicitor, but the usual position is the primary carer (you) will stay with the kids in the pain residence.)

After the kids have left would you really want to be in a family home alone? At that stage you can probably sell the house, split the proceeds and buy your own smaller place.

Well done for going full time and getting a promo- part of the battle is done there.

Regarding finances, he will still have to pay child support if you're having the kids more than him.

I think you should speak to a solicitor now. Ask what you're likely to get. Then save hard for the next 12 months and get your ducks in a row.

Good luck!

My dilemma is do I turn everyone's world upside down and leave the marriage.

When everyone's world is already topsy-turvy, maybe turning upside down is the only way to right yourselves.

You spent a lot of your time in your points worrying about everyone else, including a DH who doesn't appear to worry about you, or your feelings, or even engaging with his own family.

What about you, & your right to a peaceful & fulfilling life?
FFS don't put that on hold because a man who isn't nice to you would have to go without his hot tub & games room.

If you split, you might not be taking the DC on swanky foreign holidays, but can have an awful lot more fun & adventure when you are not pandering to a miseryguts at the expense of your children's wellbeing & emotional security.

H would refuse to have DC so I can go away with friends once a year. No one else could have them. DC with SEN would never go to H house ever. He hates H most days. They clash as both ASD. I would have at least one child every single day with no rest time. H will also hate and resent me until the day I die.

Yet you go on to make a subsequent point, worrying about the toll a divorce would have on DH's mental health? Or that he might hate you? So what?

Think about how your DC's mental health would improve if he no longer had to endure living with a father who he hates.

You can find support for some kind of respite care arrangement once a year. That's not the issue now - it's just a practicality to sort out. Right now - what would a home just for you & the DC, with a living room you can enter & use freely, & a tidy & unsmelly environment you all help maintain, & a calm atmosphere you all contribute to feel like?

How would it feel to suddenly have enough emotional space left over for friendships, interests, fun with the DC without 'hatred' needing to be expressed on a daily basis?

[quote snugglebum20]@Aquamarine1029 I have opened a bank account in my name. He knows nothing about it. I have gone FT and got promotion to increase my income. I potentially have a 6-8 month plan to leave ..if I can have the balls to leave. The balls to up end the whole family life, temporality throw it all into chaos and catch my part of it as it falls down from a great height.[/quote]
You will be amazed at the energy & accuracy with which you can catch balls, when you are not being ground down by a gaslighting, mean-minded domestic tyrant OP.

Can’t see any reason to stay aside from financials. Make your plans and leave him