Is it ever ok?

[sesamebreadsticks]

I think I'm going to be that person. The one who asks for confirmation that somethings not right. The one who would read someone else's thread and wonder why they needed to ask. But I'm that person today. Wondering if my own faults and the way that I obviously cause hurt to someone, justifies them saying the things they do. I have asked a thousand times to not be spoken to like this. He says he has asked a thousand times for me to change and I haven't, so I guess that makes us even. But does it make it ok to be told I'm a fucking cow, that he hates me, that I make his flesh crawl? I say told, I mean screamed. And I'm hearing of our child. I am working today and going over my mistakes this morning. I was angry at the division (or not) of tasks - for the billionth time. I ranted and raged a little. I got these words back. There is obviously so so so much more behind this and I don't want to go into it all. We are "normal" "decent" people in a screwed up toxic relationship. I think. I can't say more right now, I just need to be that person asking - was that ok?

@LaBellina

What you describe is emotional, verbal abuse, plain and simple. You opened this thread because deep down inside you know what’s going on but you doubt your own judgement, please DON’T. Your gut feeling was spot on, this is toxic. And once it gets toxic, it almost never gets back to normal. I would LTB

I have moments where I whisper in my own head that it's emotional abuse, then I tell myself I'm being ridiculous- I am being dramatic, it's an exaggeration. It's hard to know what's real sometimes when I get very mixed up in my own head as to what was and wasn't said. He can be very good at denying things were said as I heard them, even when I'm quite sure I know what I heard.

@LemonTT

Basically a morning in your home is you ranting and raving and him screaming insults. With your children watching on and presumably going into school were they are supposed to be learning and developing as a child or young person.

Fact of the matter they won’t be able to learn will be stressed and upset. A target for all sorts of childhood grief.

The victims aren’t the adults here. But the adults can do something about it. The question to you OP is what will you do to stop this scene being repeated.

You're right, there are all sorts of knock on effects from this to my impressionable children. I don't want them thinking this is normal and I know it's up to me to change things for the better for them.

We've had a civilised evening watching a film we'd booked to see. Not much time to talk. I did tell him he owes our child a massive apology as he overheard everything this morning. I didn't say I deserved one too, I just felt o didn't have the energy to even discuss things further.
I'll be making plans to move out in a few months time. We just need to be in a civil place to get through it until I do.

It’s emotional abuse so no, not ok.

Allowing children to be in a household where they witness abuse is child abuse (just done my safeguarding training for work and this stuck out as being something people aren’t always aware of).

So yep, time to get out.

It sounds like neither of you are treating the other well so I don't see how your relationship can improve really. You and your husband can apologise to your children for your behaviour but it won't mean anything if the behaviour keeps on being repeated. In fact it'll make your children feel lied to and so even worse. If the marriage isn't working for either of you, never mind both of you, it's sadly time to let it go.

It is so hard when your hearts desire makes you give something one more chance because some of the dream is there (the love, the attraction) and the rest could be fixed if only both parties could recognise the mistakes and make positive changes. Slowly recognising that the aspiration isn't stronger than the patterns of behaviour is hard. 😔

Why would you both not apologise?

Ranting and raving isnt acceptable either just because you think it was justified. He presumably felt he was justified. Both of you have lost control of your tempers. That’s frightening for a child. And you know it will be repeated. The half apology isn’t enough.

@LemonTT

Why would you both not apologise?

Ranting and raving isnt acceptable either just because you think it was justified. He presumably felt he was justified. Both of you have lost control of your tempers. That’s frightening for a child. And you know it will be repeated. The half apology isn’t enough.

Ranting and "raging" was just a turn of phrase to describe me having a bit of a meltdown yesterday morning about how busy I was, when he wasn't. It was a stressful morning but no different to how I'm sure countless women feel in the mornings. That's what I meant. It's important to say that as I know now it doesn't justify the language I received in return and I don't need to feel huge guilt for a quite normal stressed mum "rant". That part doesn't hurt my children at all. The shouting and screaming back at me and the swearing - that's the part that impacts them and can't continue.

And additionally, I did apologise to my son. In fact I said that I didn't want him to feel that relationships should be like that, that it wasn't right to scream and shout and swear. I apologise all the time to my children if they witness their Father shouting, but he needs to apologise and address his actions with them too.
When I'm snappy with my kids when I'm busy, I apologise for that too - but that part is normal, it's the same in households up and down the country, unless of course you are Mary Poppins and living in some kind of domestic bliss.