Why has it all gone wrong

[prufrock]

I really never thought I'd be posting a serious (as opposed to ranting) thread in this section, but I just can't cope with the stateof my realtionship with dh anymore. We have had another row on the phone today - all we ever seem to do is talk about the children or row.

I have done a lot of adjusting recently. New baby (6m now) new house (rented so can't even bloody decorate), new area, new job (I count my SAHM status as a job). I was finding it quite difficult, but think that was normal (see - I'm not being hard on myslef ) and have now got a really good weekday routine, lots of activities, a few mummy friends for playdates, a new, more relaxed attitude. I've decided todo soem sort of college course after Xmas just so I can have some intellectual stimulation (V. belated thanks to serenequeen & Marina for that suggestion)

So far so good, but I still have huge problems with dh. He works v. hard. He gets home by 6.15 in the evening, has 2 hours with me and the kids (well with the kids) then works again until 10.30, when he wants to be in bed, because he gets up at 6 to go to work. These hours are HIS choice - he's a salesman, and already does more than half the business of his entire company (8 strong salesforce) so nobody but him is making him work this hard - he's even maxed out his bonus already for this year so there isn't even a financial incentive.
He seems to have forgotten I exist in any capacity other than as his nanny, and the person he has sex with. That doesn't happen that often, which he thinks is the problem - wheras I see it as an effect. We spend NO time together that isn't looking after the children. I have only been out 3 times in the evening since we moved 8 months ago - twice to weddings and once to the pub after my grandmothers funeral. All three times were with him, and we did enjoy ourselves, but he never seems to want to make an effort to spend any time with me.

The argument tonight was because he wants to go out on Staurday night. He will be leaving the house at 10am anyway to go to see Chelsea, (lunch beforehand in directors box with clients) and then wanted to go out in the evening. It was only when I asked what was happening that I found out it was post wedding drinks for everybody that had been to our friends wedding - he hadn't even considered that I might want to go! Even worse, his mother is coming to stay for the weekend so it means I will be alone with her all day (she's sweet but kinda loopy)

I'm rambling.

I want to know how to get back my relationship with dh. How to make him see that the total lack of a relationship is a serious problem. I have told him how I feel, but I'm sure he just sees it as me nagging and being depressed (which I maybe was, slightly, for a while, but am now sorted in every other aspect) How do you perusade somebody who hasn't any time for you to make taht time for you, especially when they think the only problem is that you don't shag enough?

Poor you. Could you possibly book a week-end or night away as a surprise for him in a nice hotel. Or theatre tickets, even cinema followed by dinner at a nice restaurant. It all depends on childcare you can sort out. Say you decide to take him out on a Sunday lunchtime. Wake up, make his favourite breakfast and let him have it in bed and put a little note on the tray telling him you've prepared something exciting for that afternoon, then drive him to wherever you want to go, have luch and book a room at a hotel for a few hours. You'd need a lot of planning for this sort of thing and you have to be brave. Men are strange creatures!

This must be worrying for you. I don't know how many children you have but I wonder if your DH sees you as being there for the children only and he's then getting on with his career and social life. Agree with Branster about getting a babysitter and making certain nights special for you as a couple. You need to have quality time together alone to survive. He might be feeling resentlful and neglected. Probably sounds daft from your perspective but I think alot of men feel this way and things then change for the worse. You need to make the first move. Good luck.

Oh dear. Men! He sounds very caught up in his work and I bet he's completely clueless about how you're feeling. Probably has no idea you're so fed up. Trust me, he won't have read the signals, so you will have to spell it out for him. Try to find a time when you can talk in a relaxed way without things getting too 'heavy.' You both need to find ways of meeting each other's needs as best you can - and that might mean some compromise from both sides. By the way, as an outsider looking in, your life doesn't look all that bad; you have a husband who, though he may work longer hours than you'd like, at least has a decent job and is prepared to work at it, you've a beautiful new baby and are making new friends. Try to focus on all the good stuff; it helps get things into perspective. I hope that doesn't sound patronising, it's just that I know how easy it is to dwell on all that's wrong rather than all that's right. Good luck.

But I don't /want/ to make the first move. And I /have/ spelled it out. I have now said on 3 seperate occasions that I would like to go to see The Producers (as he knows that it is one of my all time favourite movies I had hoped he might have suggested it himself) and that if he gets tickets on a night he is free I will organise a babysitter. Absolutely no action from him. I told him that I would have liked to have gone out on Saturday with him, and that I was upset that he hadn't considered it, so he said that he wouldn't go out then. That's not my issue - I don't mind him having a social life (he usually has either one weekday night or a weekend day to himself) I would just like us to have a social life as well.
And 80'smum I do know I have a good life. A few months ago I would have got very down about this and seen it as a sign that my entire life was terrible and I couldn't go on like this. Now I am actually in a rational enough state to see that my only problem is my lack of an adult relationship with dh. But I don't want to carry on not having one.
He came home at 11:30 last night, and was drunk, and so had a go about the fact that the bed wasn't made (dd had wet it, and I couldn't turn the mattress myself). He was so horrid, when he knew I was upset, so I slept in the spare room. I've only ever done that once before. He left without saying anything this am. I really can't remember why we are together.

Prufroc, I have no advice but you're not alone. DH can be like that at time. Part of it is that he sees himself going out and earning all the money ad imagines me lounging around at home (I'm a SAHM). I don't think many men "get" the idea that being a SAHM is, in fact, work and not a license to eat cake and drink coffee.

I know you don't want to make the first move but neither does he. If someone doesn't then nothing will change.

Sorry things are like this for you Prufrock. With regard to the hints about things you'd like to do and so on, it could be that your DH is being an idiot, but equally, cliche or not, I do think men are generally crap in this area. You think you're practically showing a photo of an item you want for Christmas or whatever, and then they give you soap! Or nothing!
I spent weeks hinting to DH that I would like a specific book for our wedding anniversary. I got nothing - not even a card. I was really hacked off at the time, especially since he said it was because "I didn't know you thought it was that important". How romantic.
Seriously though, this kind of thing leaves you feeling very indisposed to making the first move, but you HAVE to. Clearly his mind's on other things, and if you don't do something, by the time you do get invited out by him, you won't have anything nice to say. I know, I've been there!
Tell him you need him home early one night, book a restaurant and babysitter, and drag him out with you. Force yourself to be lighthearted about it. It will feel fake, but if he responds well, then you will feel better about things and it can pick up from there.
Where have you moved to? Do you have any family near by? Cld his mother perhaps make a comment to him about how little time he seems to spend with you?

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prufrock, apologies for changing my name for this but dh has cottoned on to my nickname!

I so know how you feel. My dh was convinced that lack of sex was the cause of problems rather than a symptom. My friends would say to me that dh completely took advantage of me (I don't think it was that bad but I could see where they were coming from). He would work all the hours god gave, even though people doing the same job as him would work less hours for the same pay, then he would go to footie on Saturday and on Sunday he would be knackered and swan about.

I think you are a step ahead of me becuase you still want to do stuff with your dh. I got to the stage where I was so resentful that I couldn't be bothered to make time to go out with him - he would make out that I would have to fit in with his schedule if we wanted to go out rather than it being a nice evening together.

All I'm saying really is that I have great sympathy. You MUST sit him down and tell him how you feel. He may not get the gist of it (mine didn't for a while) but I think you HAVE to get into his head that you are not an accessory in his life - you are a full-on, important part of it and you need to be included. It's very easy when you are a SAHM to get disillusioned with life, especially with going out and doing stuff for yourself so whatever you do, don't give up. Perhaps it might be a start to try and arrange something in the evening with another mum - even if it's a quick drink in a pub (without dh) - it might perk you up a bit and make dh realise what he's missing.

Prufrock

I really do understand how you feel - like a drudge I would imagine from your post

I think all relationships have patches like this and turning it around can be a helluva task.

The way I approach things when I get like this with DH is just to fake it. I act like I was in the first mad throws of love again. Do lots of nice things for him (and if I were you I would book the babysitter and the tickets for The Producers) and somehow, usually within a very short period (2-3 weeks) I don't have to act anymore. Don't know how or why it works but as soon as I start being all lovey dovey and unfailingly positive my DH's mood seems to completely change and he becomes the man I married again

I'm not for one minute suggesting that it is the woman's responsibility to put things right when relationships are in a rut, but if you want the relationship to get better, easier to take action to make that happen than wait for him to realise just how bad things are.

Good luck - hope you find an answer to this, it must be horribly distressing for you!

Hi prufrock, sorry to hear of your unhappiness. It sounds like your dh is totally a workaholic. Men like this often wake up one day and find that the family they worked so hard for, thought they were doing the right thing for, has gone because they were not giving the thing their wife and children wanted most: time.

It's good that he devotes two hours every evening to the family, and it's good that he has a strong work ethic and is a good provider, but he has no emotional energy left for you, and this has to change. You must feel as if you are disappearing. I do agree with what others have said, that your dh is not picking up your signals. I doubt whether he is intentionally neglecting you - he probably just can't see it at all. He probably thinks he is doing his best for his family.

I think if I were in your shoes I would have a very serious conversation with him, pointing out that one day he will turn to face you and you will have aged 20 years without his noticing, and that the children will have flown the nest. I would say that whilst I was very proud of his strong work ethic, I would prefer to have slightly less money and quality time with my husband than to be a rich widow at the age of 50.

I would certainly insist on having at least one night out together a week. Ask him which evening would suit and get yourself a babysitter regularly for that evening. We have one every Friday and come what may we go out to dinner or drinks or whatever every Friday. I would also build a social life for myself independently of him. I regularly go out for dinner, to pub quizzes, or drinks, or whatever with friends. This gives dh time to himself at home and gives me a great social life. Now my daughters are older I take them out sometimes, shopping, to see a film or to eat. This way we all get quality time with each other and time to be alone too.

I hope you can get your message across. Perhaps if you try to explain that women feel differently about sex from the way men do it might help. My dh understands, because I have explained it enough times that women need intimacy and quality time together to make them feel sexy. Otherwise it feels like doing it with a stranger and that's not fun. It feels all wrong.

Remind him of the old adage, when mum's not happy ain't nobody happy! But when mum feels loved and is getting some attention, it puts her in the mood to give dad some attention back!

I hope things get back on track for you. xxx

Hi prufrock. I really sympathise with you. I am in a similar situation but have now had enough and want to separate. I wish you the best of luck. If you can work it out, great - if you can't - don't worry, at least you will have tried!

Dear Prufrock, I have just spotted this. Lots of good advice on here, especially that all relationships go through these patches - and when the second baby is still small was a stinker for us too.
I thought Soapbox's thoughts and ideas really struck a chord. Even if your teeth are audibly gnashing (mine would be and have been on many occasions), do book the night out yourself, and present him with a fait accompli. It is deeply galling that the half with the brains in any relationship has to do so much more than 50%, I agree.
Any chance loopy MIL can be trusted with one or both offspring to enable you to get out on Saturday? I will CAT you.

Wow Prufrock, your post could have been written by me, with a few minor differences. So sorry this is happening to you, especially as I always associate your name with the happy news of your new baby (about the time I joined MN). I have to say, I would throw a complete wobbly if my dh went out all Saturday, especially as his mother is visiting.
I can't advise you to do that (throw a wobbly) but you do need to talk things through with your dh. Perhaps give him what he wants in bed - I usually find my dh is so happy to have something there, he is more ready to talk about the stuff I want to sort out.

I am having a shit month here too, although I hate to admit it. I find it TOO hard to make the first move and do all the 'nice stuff' - I feel so resentful that I have to manage DH as WELL as the baby and the damn house. No advice from me - just some sympathy.

message of support here too... it is galling, isnt it, whe you take responsibility for everything, almost like you got another child...

havent got any brill advice as i left my baby's dad for similar reasons (although he an lacaholic so not really same)

just wondering if he working so hard because is easier than being at home and if so, is he hiding from how he feeling. not suggesting you done something, just wonder whether 'hard work' is a good and matyr-ish way to avoid other probs/ responsibilities?

have you thought about some relationship counselling?

chin up. all best. xxx

Well we've "talked". It was quite funny really.

I told him I'd said 3 times I wanted to go to see The Producers. He said he knew, but he wasn't sure what it was! So I opened the Evening Standard he'd brought home for me to show him the 2 page review of the opening bloody night. So he's going to get tickets, I'm organising babysitter. And we are having a babysitter every other Friday night. (thanks anorak) And he's coming back after the game on Saturday.

I just think we are speaking a completely different laguage. He kept on saying that he couldn't help that I wasn't happy being a SAHM. But I am now. It took some adjusting, but I'm now very happy with my life with the kids- I just want to have some of my old life with my husband as well.

subs I think you might have something - I have been quite grumpy over the past few months,a nd many times when he has sat down and talked to em it's turned into me moaning and getting upset about the lack of life in my new life. And I'm not sure that I had ever clearly communicated to him that I have now come out of my grey cloud and am ready to enjoy being with him rather than just needing support.

The best bit was when I asked him why he'd been so horrid when he'd got home on Wed. night. He said it was because he was cross that I'd taken the covers off his(our) bed just because I was upset with him . How could he possibly think that I'd stripped the bloody bed because I was pissed off with him. I mean it's just not logical! (he did admit to not thinking straight)

So we will see.

I am upset for everybody that it is kind of expected by all of us that we should be the ones to make the extra effort. I could do that easily, but I want him to /want/ to spend time with me, not do it because I've organised it. And I don't see why that is such a big ask. And I would never consider having sex with him to get him to talk to me. Sex in a relationship should be what happens when you are both happy with each other, not a bargaining tool. I don't mean to offend you lonelymum, but I just find it sad that you have to do that -why do we all put up with so much crap from men?

Prufrock, I've come to this thread late to sympathise. TBH I wouldn't want to make the first bloody move either. It probably IS the only option, but boy would I not want to make it.

grrrrrrrrrrr

well i posted for the first time about my dh this morning and I never thought i would either.

You are doing all the right things though and you have been given some good advice! I had to laugh about your dh thinking you stripped the bed because you were pissed off with him, men and their brains - why on earth would you do that?!

Hopefully things will improve for you, anyway x

Hey hon. Hope the producers works its magic on you both by making you laugh lots and lots. I've had times something like this too and I know that they're shit- you have all my sympathy. They really can and do pass though and it sounds to me like you are doing everything possible to ensure that happens soon. That means you are, as I always suspected, a skilled, smooth, beautiful, clever, TS Eliot loving, charming and thoughtful operator from the planet Fab. I honestly expect that your dh will respond to your talk by pulling his socks up because it sounds like you've handled it so well. But if not you can tell him that failure to change his attitude in short order will put him at risk of receiving gadzillions of extraordinarily bad eggy vibes from the House of Scum, not to mention from the wider mumsnet world where we all heart you enormously. Granted bad vibes from strangers may sound a tad harsh but, frankly, unless he speedily puts some wife-worship into place it will be fair, IMO. You are, after all, a star.

hello sweetie, very sorry to see these posts my meagre wisdom can't add anything to what has already been posted, but just wanted to send sympathy your way.

hope to see you tomorrow?

No wisdom from me either but lots of sympathy.