Communication

[HummingBeeBox]

Please help all you decent communicators out there. Me and dp just seem to tie each other in knots over the simplest things. Example:

Dp: who's taking the dog?
Me : I don't know.
Dp : well if you don't know I'll take him.
Me : ok, but why ask me who? Am I supposed to know when we haven't talked about it?
Dp ; that was me instigating a conversation about it.
Me : by asking me who was walking him? That just seems like you want me to have an answer which I don't as we don't know each other's movements.

Etc etc. Conversations can be ridiculously painful sometimes.

If your dp came in and said 'who's (insert chore of choice) how would it play out?

I don't think I'm great at communication to be honest and nor is he and it creates really bad feeling. Should I just ignore the exact words or tone (he fully accepts that he is huffy and grumpy but I am not supposed to ask if he is ok as it's just his personality / breathing - yes really, a huff is him breathing) and crack on with what I think he meant, risking further confusion?

So strung out by it all

Am I too up tight? Is he?

I do feel he does it on purpose to create something to huff about

It sounds like at the moment there's just so much resentment that everything feels like a dig or passing the buck.

If he asks who's doing something, and you genuinely don't mind either way, just say that and accept his decision (as much as you say he doesn't want the mental load, he did just say he'd do it straight away once you'd said I don't know).

If you want to do it, speak up. If you don't, speak up.

Don't take everything as an attack.

If you want him to do something, don't start a conversation with "you never do x" (not saying you do but it's easy to go on the attack when you're frustrated) just say "would you mind doing x while I do y?"

Once you can communicate better and work as more of a team it'll be much easier to discuss him not pulling his weight etc.

@HummingBeeBox

I just think he wants to be a big macho bloke who labours all day and comes home to a wifey who makes the dinner and asks nothing of him. He's not macho, he's soft as shit and very emotional, but I think his family are so traditional he thinks he's hard done by and so do I ask I don't want a partner who wants me to be a little housewife

This is the crux, isn't it? You want different things from the relationship, so your expectations don't match. You don't provide what he wants, and he doesn't provide what you want. You are both right (because you are both entitled to want whatever you want), but you are both insisting that what you want is the 'right' thing to want.

In short, you don't respect each other's expectations of the relationship. So there's no relationship, and can't be one, because you can't just choose to want or not want something at will.

If he won't even have a conversation about it without getting defensive, that's another nail in the coffin.

Sorry, OP. Probably not what you want to hear. But one of the key parts of compatibility is that you both want the relationship to look roughly the same.

@girlmom21 thank you. I'll do that. You're right. We both perceive everything as an attack.

Start with " if you ..." as in " if you could empty the bin I will take the dog " . Spell it out because I've realised the thirty plates spinning in my head aren't spinning in anyone else's so as DH has told me he's not a mind reader ! It has worked well .. plus we have arranged a rota for the dogs - me on the weekdays and him at the weekend .

I do feel resentful that I have to remind him and dd that sitting on your phone with Netflix on while another person is doing the housework around you isn't very nice

No it's not nice, unless of course you do this whilst he and dd cook dinner/clean up etc

I agree with what other pp have said, in that you do the housework etc whilst he's at work, but when he's home it's 50/50, so he would be doing the washing up, general household chores too. Your dd should also be doing age appropriate chores too.

@TheFoundations @RandomMess it's very difficult to accept that. I don't think his brain wants that but his traditional upbringing and influences tell his gut. If you asked him he wouldn't admit to it, no way on earth would he. I also so fiercely don't want to be a little wifey that I likely get too defensive when I have to do too much but for all the wrong reasons.

I think there is enough here to work on as we get on really well when our hackles aren't up and live doing stuff alone when dd is at her zillion clubs in the evening

@doubleshotcappuccino thank you, you're right. Sometimes I've run through 25 different scenarios with possible outcomes that he is completely unaware of and is therefore unaware of why I do or don't mind or have offered a different solution.

@bigbaggyeyes nope, I don't do this as they don't do anything round the house ever unless asked and in that case I'm already up doing it too.

The evening routine needs to be more rigid - cook, wash up, etc. Too much leaving things until they've piled up and annoyed me. As another poster said, I'll start saying 'if I wash, can you dry please?'

Dp getting grumpy when asked to dry up after I've cooked and washed up isn't a great example to dd and that has to stop

What type of work does he do?

[quote HummingBeeBox]**@TheFoundations* @RandomMess* it's very difficult to accept that. I don't think his brain wants that but his traditional upbringing and influences tell his gut. If you asked him he wouldn't admit to it, no way on earth would he. I also so fiercely don't want to be a little wifey that I likely get too defensive when I have to do too much but for all the wrong reasons.

I think there is enough here to work on as we get on really well when our hackles aren't up and live doing stuff alone when dd is at her zillion clubs in the evening [/quote]
A relationship is measure by how it deals with disagreements, not how it deals with fun times.

I don't think his brain wants that but his traditional upbringing and influences tell his gut

This is just an excuse. It's how he is. It doesn't matter how he's got there. It doesn't matter if his brain and his gut are arguing. He doesn't want what you want. He wants you to be something you're not. You're having trouble because you don't want to accept that.

If you accepted it, the path forward would be much clearer: one of you has to do what the other wants, or you have to split up.

You both get defensive because it's horrible being around somebody who expects you to be something you find distasteful. However many giggles you have in between, you will still get each other's hackles up regularly; the definition of compatible is that you rarely get each other's hackles up.

The shutting you down and refusing to have "serious" conversations is a huge red flag that he isn't willing to change.

@RantyAunty he refurbishes trucks and motorbikes. He loves it

@TheFoundations that is incredibly difficult for me to accept, you're right. I don't know that I can

@RandomMess no he isn't. But I'm not going to be little wife either. Neither wrong neither right.
I can't give up on it though. He's not all bad

A relationship is measure by how it deals with disagreements, not how it deals with fun times

100% this. Because the disagreements highlight the underlying dynamics and attitudes in the relationship.

Unless there is a radical overhaul, your relationship has no hope (or you will stay together but increasingly hate each other).

My personal advice would be to get out of a relationship like this.
Its corrosive.
You could try the principles of a successful marriage by Gottman though you will both have to be committed to it.

@deadleaves thank you. I would like to think there is a fix.

I started off this relationship 20 years ago with a passive aggressive approach to asking for help / making sure my needs are met. My family communicate this way. I have fixed that mostly but think it bleeds through every now and then. He is the same. I honestly think we both want this to work but lack the skills. I would like to think we can learn.

I don't feel like ending the relationship and not trying to sort my own communication failures would benefit me. We have got into a rut, developed bad habits and fallen into a black hole of defensiveness. But I can see it. So can he.

[quote HummingBeeBox]@TheFoundations that is incredibly difficult for me to accept, you're right. I don't know that I can [/quote]
It's vey hard to accept that even if lots of bits of your relationship work, there are elements that make it unsustainable.

I think it would be good to look at why this is so hard for you to accept. You're in a relationship that's nigglingly rubbing you up the wrong way all the time. You feel like he's doing it deliberately. Is this the relationship you think you deserve? If so, why so? And if not, why can't you leave?

Sorry. Really big questions, and bluntly asked. All of it is with kindness at heart

@TheFoundations thank you, I know this is all coming from a good place and I did ask after all!

I can't accept it because I know how broken we both are and why and I can see past these things we have developed because of past relationships. I don't think they're permanent or intrinsic to our beings, our personalities.

However, this may be an excuse. I can't see the wood for the trees. I have no examples of successful relationships in my life. None. My sisters and mum don't have partners. My dad was awful when I was small although much better now and in a lovely marriage and I didn't grow up in an emotionally nurturing home. My mum is incredibly young at heart, no emotional support whatsoever and she is a doormat when it comes to men. So are my sisters.

I suppose I know no different and dp is the same but I do know that we both know we are mucked up by it all and we do try hard, in our own ways, but don't know what we're doing. It's like trying to learn to swim with no teacher. We don't know what we're doing. One step forward and two back. Believe it or not we are loads better than when we were in our twenties. We were arseholes then.

I've also only been financially independent and able le to support myself for the last 6 months so this is new to me, I've never been able to consider going it alone before. I really don't want to though. He does a lot for us and he is reliable and generous. Just a bit of a crap with emotions and not getting defensive.

Take yourself out of the equation for a minute: How would a 'not broken' person deal with being in your situation? What would the 'not broken', healthy minded, high-self-esteemed response be?

I'm sorry to have to tell you, but you're not broken. You have to let go of that, and take responsibility for your own happiness. It's a big job. Looking after a person, keeping them happy, making sure they don't get mixed up in stuff that hurts them, feeding them, clothing them, providing for them, it's lots of work. But adults do that work for themselves. All of it. Find themselves in situations that make them unsettled/unhappy/unfulfilled? They take on the responsibility of leaving.

I'll say again: You are not broken. The only thing that's wrong here is that you respond in ways a broken person would, because you use the excuse that you are broken.

As my counsellor said to me, 'The only thing that's wrong with you is that you think there's something wrong with you.' It was terrifying to take that on board, because suddenly I couldn't look to others to provide what I need, and I had to do it all on my own.

Be brave, and start walking away from situations that make you feel bad. Make your relationship with yourself so good that you think 'OMG this is fucking awesome! This woman (yourself) treats me with such respect and kindness!', rather than your current 'Oh well, this woman leaves me in these uncomfortable situations, but she's right to, really, because my past has ruined me a bit...'

With regard to 'trying to learn to swim with no teacher'... YOU are your teacher. There are no rules. All you need to learn to do is be happy, and the way you do that is by putting yourself in situations that make you happy. Rather than what you do now, which is to put yourself in situations that don't make you happy, and try to change yourself so that you feel happy about them. Your feelings are not pesky annoyances that are in the way of your relationship. Your relationship is what's in the way of your feelings. Your feelings are signposts. They are the teachers. Listen to them, respect them, follow them. If you do that, you will feel not broken, but mended, within a very short period.

@TheFoundations thank you that's incredibly insightful and will give me enough to think about and work on for a while! Some big thinking needed. I really appreciate your input on this.

Me not being broken and him not being broken is slightly huge.

Can I ask, would you recommend therapy / counselling?

Him not being broken depends on whether he chooses to feel himself to be broken or not.

You can only do the 'you' bit of this, and recognising that is part of it. It is huge, yes. Counselling got me to the place where I was ready to take it on board, but when the penny dropped, it happened in an instant. It was like a piano dropped off a roof and hit me! Mindset changed, instantly: I'm not unhappy because I'm broken, I'm unhappy because I choose to be around people/in places that don't make me happy.

It's SO simple, and it's all based around the fact that you don't need to change anything about yourself. You're fab. If people don't appreciate that, they can bugger off.

One of my big realisations was 'The only thing I need to change about myself is my partner.' It was almost funny in its horribleness. But I had plenty of people in my life with whom I felt sane, loved, appreciated, respected etc. It was only with my partner that I felt like I was somehow faulty.

Sorry, I'm off on one again.

Yes, I recommend counselling 100% BUT I got very lucky and the first counsellor I went to was the right counsellor for me. It's like any relationship; you have to choose well, so if you have a session, and you come out feeling like the person didn't 'get' you, or wasn't listening, find someone else. I wish you luck with this. For me, it was like learning to parent myself, in a way that I hadn't even been parented as a kid. Now I'm like the parent of my own feelings, so, if my feeling is sad, I give myself a metaphorical hug, tell me I love me, buy me a bar of chocolate, and treat myself to a shit film lying in the sofa under a blanket. Previously it would have been an internal 'For god's sake, you prat, why can't you just be happy??'

I will say one other thing, whilst I'm wittering :) It was helpful, with regard to 'being broken because of my past', to recognise the difference between fault and responsibility. It was my parent's fault I turned out feeling like I was broken, not mine. YAY!! Finally free of blaming myself for all the rubbish about me! Fault looks BACKWARDS. It was (and is) my responsibility to not drag that brokenness into every day, every relationship, every decision I made. YAY! Finally I'm allowed to do whatever the fuck I want and nobody can tell me I'm wrong!! Responsibility looks FORWARDS.

You are yours. You belong to you. You have to take care of you, treat you as you would a vulnerable child, because that's what we all are, emotionally: confused little kids in a big world with no set of rules to follow. As adults, we develop the cognitive function and experience to support our little confused inner kids. So many of us spend our days telling the little one inside to just shut up. It's a happy life when you mollycoddle that kid instead.

@TheFoundations thank you for this post, I appreciate your advice and comments I really do. He definitely feels broken. To the point that it stops him having agency.

I love this - responsibility looks forward. I am going to try and embrace my inner kid.