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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Confronted dad on neglect that led to abuse

47 replies

idiotmagnet · 23/09/2021 22:48

I’ll try to keep it short, but as with any longstanding toxic family situation, it’s a long story and a bit involved.
I’m in my 40s and have always had a difficult relationship with my dad. My parents haven’t had a happy marriage, there has always been tension, infidelity and coercive control. I’m an only child and my dad always prided himself on not letting fatherhood change his life in any way. Consequently i got very little love, attention or affection from him, and as he ruled the roost i feel i was neglected in the sense that i wasn’t encouraged to pursue my own interests if it involved lifts or any practical support etc, and as I entered my teen years i was left completely to my own devices, which meant that some pretty horrible things happened to me from early teens onwards.
When i had just turned 16 a 40 yr old man in a position of authority regularly abused me and my parents both knew. Nothing was ever said, and because of that i went along with it and also craved the attention that it brought. That period of my life has had a huge impact on me and meant that I became somehow recognisable to other predators and i was abused again by my boss at a restaurant job when i was 17, because my dad wouldn’t come to collect me so i had to rely on the boss to get me home. I was also abused by a teacher. I was off the rails and frequently awol and all my parents did was shame me and tell me off. There was never any attempt to find out what was really happening, although i did try to hint.
My mental health has been awful on and off but i have sought help each time and am on meds for panic attacks etc. My parents know about my poor mental health but it has never been mentioned. I have brought up my two children alone (I have had a tendency to seek out dysfunctional relationships with men), and the kids are great and seem free of much of the effects of the toxicity, although they certainly notice it and need to talk it through.
My dad has bullied all of us in different ways, and we are all on eggshells around him.
Anyway, he and i had a falling out over text earlier today because he’d been mean to one of my kids. I ended up spilling out how i felt about the neglect and how i was abused on his watch and he said he didn’t know what i was talking about despite me knowing full well he knows because we have discussed it very briefly in the past, and he would answer the door to this man when he picked me up.
I have been suffering especially bad mental health and nightmares since my daughter reached the age i was when it happened, and it feels like a daily torture. I think about it every day and feel so angry that it was allowed to happen.
My dad hasn’t responded to my last text about the abuse. He’s just ignored it. I feel so lost. How can a parent receive a text from their child about sexual abuse and just not say anything???

OP posts:
EmeraldRaine · 24/09/2021 09:07

I suppose if he didn't come he wouldn't have anything to complain about and wouldn't get the opportunity to be a pain with my kids.

He's not being a pain with them. He's emotionally abusive to them, just like he was with you.

EmeraldRaine · 24/09/2021 09:09

Fucking hell your mum took you with her so she could shag her boyfriend?!

Your parents are fucked up. Please keep them away from your children. Even if it is convenient for them to give your kids lifts, what would you do about lifts if your parents weren't in your life? Do that. And you could do with some therapy. CBT or EMDR.

rumred · 24/09/2021 09:17

Hi @idiotmagnet so sorry that you have been through this and I completely empathise with the experience of realizing you were abused and neglected. I'm an only child and parents are dead. I've been having psychotherapy recently and it has helped immensely with the extensive damage I suffered as a child, particularly at the hands of sexually abusive men. I've had to revisit stuff that I normally try to ignore and it's the hardest thing I've ever done. But I think it's worth it to get peace eventually.
You can't change your parents and like many they won't acknowledge how shit they were /are. So you're left with you and looking after yourself. Would you consider therapy again? I feel like I'm almost reparenting little me, giving me the time and love I didn't have as a child. I'm hopeful my mental health will improve and thus my life.
It sounds like you have good insight and that you're ready to sort the shite out. Good luck with it

junebirthdaygirl · 24/09/2021 09:23

You have had a very tough childhood. Well done on making your own children's life a better one. It's very common for memories to come back when your dc reach the age you were when abused. That is actually a great time to get counselling as your memories are clearer so you can bring them all out to the counsellor. Remember they are used to hearing peoples stories so will not be shocked but supportive. In your first few posts l had a little sympathy for your mom but hearing she bought you with her to meet her lover...sorry that was desperate neglect and you were much younger then too.
Don't expect anything from your parents in terms of remorse. They are gone too far for that unfortunately. Just get support and understanding from a counsellor.
And yes you are right 16 year olds still need protection from supportive parents sometimes more than at a younger age as they are taking their first steps into freedom but don't know the dangers out there due to no life experience. That's where parents come in.
I hope you manage to get counselling which will help.

idiotmagnet · 24/09/2021 09:25

@EmeraldRaine

Fucking hell your mum took you with her so she could shag her boyfriend?!

Your parents are fucked up. Please keep them away from your children. Even if it is convenient for them to give your kids lifts, what would you do about lifts if your parents weren't in your life? Do that. And you could do with some therapy. CBT or EMDR.

Yeah, when you put it like that it's pretty nuts isn't it. I suppose I've normalised it...
OP posts:
SouthSideSally · 24/09/2021 09:26

It's sounds like your parents have both been abusive, neglectful and manipulative. But the buck stops with you when it comes to your children and your future happiness. You have the responsibility and the power to change things for yourself and them. You say you want to tell him everything that happened. Why? You have already established that he won't acknowledge it. That's maybe because he can't. To do so would be to admit that he failed as a father and that would be too difficult for his ego. He needs to protect that at all costs.

You don't seek an acknowledgment from your mother and are happy to excuse her quite frankly disgusting behaviour as attention seeking. I wonder why this is?

You can never control what they do or say or accept about your life. You will bang your head against a wall waiting until you go mad. But whilst you allow them to shout at your kids and talk about them and manipulate them, you are culpable too.

Babdoc · 24/09/2021 09:27

I agree with the PPs. You need long term counselling/therapy, to deal with the trauma and the damage to your self esteem and psyche, and you need to go no contact with both parents.
Writing down all the abuse in a letter is an excellent idea, whether you feel strong enough to send it or not. It will help you see it more clearly. Think of it like a list of indictments or charges you would like your parents to face.
However, do not harbour any illusions that your parents would ever accept responsibility or admit guilt.
They are never going to apologise, let alone ask for your forgiveness. They will remain in denial, will claim you are exaggerating, will believe that you deserved or provoked the abuse, etc.
The letter is only to express your own pent up distress and anger - which can be very cathartic. Then you need help to
1)accept that you will never have nice normal loving parents, and
2) Be able to move on from that, and be a good mum to your own DC - break the cycle of abuse.
It can be done, OP. I know - I did it. I went no contact at the age of 33, over 30 years ago now. I never saw either parent again, and did not attend the funerals. I felt only relief at their deaths.

idiotmagnet · 24/09/2021 09:29

@junebirthdaygirl

You have had a very tough childhood. Well done on making your own children's life a better one. It's very common for memories to come back when your dc reach the age you were when abused. That is actually a great time to get counselling as your memories are clearer so you can bring them all out to the counsellor. Remember they are used to hearing peoples stories so will not be shocked but supportive. In your first few posts l had a little sympathy for your mom but hearing she bought you with her to meet her lover...sorry that was desperate neglect and you were much younger then too. Don't expect anything from your parents in terms of remorse. They are gone too far for that unfortunately. Just get support and understanding from a counsellor. And yes you are right 16 year olds still need protection from supportive parents sometimes more than at a younger age as they are taking their first steps into freedom but don't know the dangers out there due to no life experience. That's where parents come in. I hope you manage to get counselling which will help.
Yes this is exactly my view on parenting teens. I feel that i need to be more on the ball as a parent to my teens than ever before, as things can go wrong so quickly and the consequences are dire and life changing. Thank you for your support and kindness. I was so nervous about posting about this because i always feel that I'm making a fuss.
OP posts:
idiotmagnet · 24/09/2021 10:06

@Babdoc

I agree with the PPs. You need long term counselling/therapy, to deal with the trauma and the damage to your self esteem and psyche, and you need to go no contact with both parents. Writing down all the abuse in a letter is an excellent idea, whether you feel strong enough to send it or not. It will help you see it more clearly. Think of it like a list of indictments or charges you would like your parents to face. However, do not harbour any illusions that your parents would ever accept responsibility or admit guilt. They are never going to apologise, let alone ask for your forgiveness. They will remain in denial, will claim you are exaggerating, will believe that you deserved or provoked the abuse, etc. The letter is only to express your own pent up distress and anger - which can be very cathartic. Then you need help to 1)accept that you will never have nice normal loving parents, and 2) Be able to move on from that, and be a good mum to your own DC - break the cycle of abuse. It can be done, OP. I know - I did it. I went no contact at the age of 33, over 30 years ago now. I never saw either parent again, and did not attend the funerals. I felt only relief at their deaths.
How did you deal with wider family/society opinions on that? My extended fam know something is off but not the extent, and to wider society my parents are respected and upstanding members blah blah...
OP posts:
idiotmagnet · 24/09/2021 10:09

@SouthSideSally

It's sounds like your parents have both been abusive, neglectful and manipulative. But the buck stops with you when it comes to your children and your future happiness. You have the responsibility and the power to change things for yourself and them. You say you want to tell him everything that happened. Why? You have already established that he won't acknowledge it. That's maybe because he can't. To do so would be to admit that he failed as a father and that would be too difficult for his ego. He needs to protect that at all costs.

You don't seek an acknowledgment from your mother and are happy to excuse her quite frankly disgusting behaviour as attention seeking. I wonder why this is?

You can never control what they do or say or accept about your life. You will bang your head against a wall waiting until you go mad. But whilst you allow them to shout at your kids and talk about them and manipulate them, you are culpable too.

That's tough to read, but a fair point. What's difficult is that my dc love their grandma and don't want her punished for their grandad's behavior. They speak as they find, and their grandma is kind to them. They would find going nc with her tough and would probably view it as being cruel and unnecessary.
OP posts:
Gardenfish · 24/09/2021 11:17

OP again I’m so sorry. Yes, I normalised my treatment from both sets of parents.

The counselling helped. I spent the first couple of months crying my heart out and being completely shattered. Then the realisation. Then a lot of anger. I had/have a lot of anger towards people like teachers, aunts and associates. Why did they not see and if they did why didn’t they do anything? My brain is now replaying situations and I’m seeing them as an adult.

I get you to have 2 kids and 3 jobs. So I’m thinking you may struggle with time and money. It’s the same for me but different. I lost my job in the pandemic but was able to see my counsellor when my daughter was at school. I made it work because I had to.

I have no interest now in my extended family or stepsisters and half-sister. Yep, my heart breaks for my nieces and nephews. Worst, I get that my sisters were kids, part of me feels that they are complicit. I was always shut down by them, when I tried to ask questions to rationalise what had happened to me.

I don’t feel that I’ll ever be fixed but I’ve learnt to love myself. I can now imagine myself hugging myself as a small child and that is priceless.

Gardenfish · 24/09/2021 11:21

I think your kids would understand and be highly supportive if you were to start counselling. Even if it means you have less money for them and less time. They sound like intelligent and perceptive kids

Because in the long-term you will have a much better relationship with them.

Drinkingallthewine · 24/09/2021 12:09

There's similarities to my childhood here OP. My parent's weren't abusive or neglectful but they did take their eye off the ball, had flawed parenting techniques and were too trusting with any adults around their children - not only that, we were drilled to be deferential and do any adults bidding. I experienced SA as a child. It was handled badly by the adults involved- parent's and the GP, who reassured them I'd forget it due to my youth. And like you, the abuse gave me some sort of vulnerability that made me a target for other abusers in my teens and also abusive partners.

Like others here, I got counselling in my twenties which helped a lot and I did discuss it with them. The difference between my parents and yours was that I knew that they really believed the advice of the GP. We had, I suppose, the kind of conversation that you'd like to have with your parents. They were horrified that I'd always remembered, they were full of remorse and regret that they took the flawed advice and apologised. But, from the sounds of your parents, I don't think they are capable of that.

It was a helpful conversation for me at the time, but my mother since then (Dad has died in the interim) has seemed to block out any knowledge of my abuse, even though she was made very aware of it- for example, my son had this occasional mannerism as a baby and my mother joked he was like John when he did that. My abuser. FFS. Another time she declared that while she was not a perfect mother, at least she could go to her grave knowing none of her children ever got abused. Hmm I was stunned and reminded her about John when I was around 7, Tom when I was 14, and Jerry when I was 16. All men who were as old, or older than my parents. I can't tell you how hurtful that was - how how could a mother forget their child was sexually abused repeatedly as a child and was targeted by two predators in her teens? It's possible that because it never progressed to rape in any of those situations, that it's not on her radar as anything of any importance...I don't know.

I will never mention it again to her. She prefers to believe her own version and honestly, it does affect how I feel about her now. She's baffled that we aren't as close as she would be to my other sisters but trying to explain why would be dismissed so why put myself through the fact that not only did they fail me at the time, but any remorse was short-lived and by denying it subsequently she only failed me again but this time I've the benefit of motherhood myself and I know what I'd do for my child so I judge her hard for that now.

I think it would be different if Dad was still here because he understood much better how abuse affected me, was able to see past things click into place and he was extremely protective of me as a result until the day he died.

And what I've discovered in the 8 years since my mother said that stunner to me, - and this will be important for you to know is that I don't need her input to heal or thrive. I actually never needed it and in fact, involving her probably only set my recovery path back quite a bit. Dad's reaction helped me because he got it. She never did so it was spectacularly unhelpful to me. I've fully healed from the effects of abuse I think, but tbh, knowing that my mother now knows all the details yet couldn't give a fuck really threw me backwards into a spiral for several years and I worry that would happen to you if you tried to talk to your parents. You can heal without them - in fact, they would quite possibly hinder or damage the progress you've worked so hard towards.

idiotmagnet · 24/09/2021 12:09

@Gardenfish

I think your kids would understand and be highly supportive if you were to start counselling. Even if it means you have less money for them and less time. They sound like intelligent and perceptive kids

Because in the long-term you will have a much better relationship with them.

Oh they'd be totally supportive of any therapy and they are supportive of low contact, but they would struggle with going nc with their gran. I haven't really said much to them about my difficulties with her in the past as I wanted them to have their own relationship with her. We talk a lot about their grandad and how the way he behaves isn't acceptable, as I don't want them growing up thinking it's ok to be treated the way he treats people. They don't like me making too much of it as they don't want the conflict, and prefer to just keep contact with my dad to a minimum and see my mum alone, which I try to facilitate as much as I can. I expressly asked my mum to do the lifts so as they don't have to see my dad, but she mainly caves. I think he wants her at home to prepare meals etc and it's a control thing. He doesn't want her going anywhere and he's jealous if we spend time together without him, despite him obviously not enjoying spending time with us anyway!
OP posts:
idiotmagnet · 24/09/2021 15:00

@Drinkingallthewine

There's similarities to my childhood here OP. My parent's weren't abusive or neglectful but they did take their eye off the ball, had flawed parenting techniques and were too trusting with any adults around their children - not only that, we were drilled to be deferential and do any adults bidding. I experienced SA as a child. It was handled badly by the adults involved- parent's and the GP, who reassured them I'd forget it due to my youth. And like you, the abuse gave me some sort of vulnerability that made me a target for other abusers in my teens and also abusive partners.

Like others here, I got counselling in my twenties which helped a lot and I did discuss it with them. The difference between my parents and yours was that I knew that they really believed the advice of the GP. We had, I suppose, the kind of conversation that you'd like to have with your parents. They were horrified that I'd always remembered, they were full of remorse and regret that they took the flawed advice and apologised. But, from the sounds of your parents, I don't think they are capable of that.

It was a helpful conversation for me at the time, but my mother since then (Dad has died in the interim) has seemed to block out any knowledge of my abuse, even though she was made very aware of it- for example, my son had this occasional mannerism as a baby and my mother joked he was like John when he did that. My abuser. FFS. Another time she declared that while she was not a perfect mother, at least she could go to her grave knowing none of her children ever got abused. Hmm I was stunned and reminded her about John when I was around 7, Tom when I was 14, and Jerry when I was 16. All men who were as old, or older than my parents. I can't tell you how hurtful that was - how how could a mother forget their child was sexually abused repeatedly as a child and was targeted by two predators in her teens? It's possible that because it never progressed to rape in any of those situations, that it's not on her radar as anything of any importance...I don't know.

I will never mention it again to her. She prefers to believe her own version and honestly, it does affect how I feel about her now. She's baffled that we aren't as close as she would be to my other sisters but trying to explain why would be dismissed so why put myself through the fact that not only did they fail me at the time, but any remorse was short-lived and by denying it subsequently she only failed me again but this time I've the benefit of motherhood myself and I know what I'd do for my child so I judge her hard for that now.

I think it would be different if Dad was still here because he understood much better how abuse affected me, was able to see past things click into place and he was extremely protective of me as a result until the day he died.

And what I've discovered in the 8 years since my mother said that stunner to me, - and this will be important for you to know is that I don't need her input to heal or thrive. I actually never needed it and in fact, involving her probably only set my recovery path back quite a bit. Dad's reaction helped me because he got it. She never did so it was spectacularly unhelpful to me. I've fully healed from the effects of abuse I think, but tbh, knowing that my mother now knows all the details yet couldn't give a fuck really threw me backwards into a spiral for several years and I worry that would happen to you if you tried to talk to your parents. You can heal without them - in fact, they would quite possibly hinder or damage the progress you've worked so hard towards.

Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a considered and helpful response. I'm so sorry about what happened to you. I am also fascinated- and appalled- by your mother's later response. People's capacity for denial is incredible. A day has passed since i sent those texts to my dad - the first hinted at the abuse without using the words SA, and he replied "what on earth are you talking about?" to that. I answered that with something like "what am I talking about??!! That i was sexually abused when i was at school and you knew and did nothing about it - and I've had to deal with the mental health fallout all my life". That's the one he hasn't answered. And he obviously hasn't told my mum because she's been texting me as normal. Having said that, she may well know and just be ignoring it too. You make a very valid point about laying out all the painful detail and getting nothing back. I've had a taste of that yesterday and it hurt/hurts. But somehow, it kind of confirms for me that he really isn't a nice man, because if I spell stuff out and he still doesn't respond kindly, then wow, that's a bad person. I suppose I always wonder if i have been explicit enough about what happened and whether he could have misunderstood etc, but i think i have my answer to that after yesterday.... Thank you again for your post x
OP posts:
idiotmagnet · 24/09/2021 15:03

@rumred

Hi *@idiotmagnet* so sorry that you have been through this and I completely empathise with the experience of realizing you were abused and neglected. I'm an only child and parents are dead. I've been having psychotherapy recently and it has helped immensely with the extensive damage I suffered as a child, particularly at the hands of sexually abusive men. I've had to revisit stuff that I normally try to ignore and it's the hardest thing I've ever done. But I think it's worth it to get peace eventually. You can't change your parents and like many they won't acknowledge how shit they were /are. So you're left with you and looking after yourself. Would you consider therapy again? I feel like I'm almost reparenting little me, giving me the time and love I didn't have as a child. I'm hopeful my mental health will improve and thus my life. It sounds like you have good insight and that you're ready to sort the shite out. Good luck with it
Thank you for your msg and well done on your healing progress. Yes I would definitely consider therapy. I have had some before when my marriage ended but i was still in the stage of blaming myself for the abuse so I didn't bring it up out of shame. I need to do that now...
OP posts:
rumred · 24/09/2021 21:10

God the shame is so powerful. So damaging. I hope you sort it. It can be done x

idiotmagnet · 25/09/2021 10:38

Thank you all for engaging - every comment has been helpful. I will be seeking counselling and making contact even less frequent until I get professional advice. X

OP posts:
TerribleZebra · 25/09/2021 11:37

I always thought my dad was solely responsible for my awful childhood and felt really sorry for my mum. Dad then died (I was an adult with my own family then) and suddenly it became apparent that my mum displayed all the same behaviours as him and had been completely culpable in everything that happened. It's just she was less extreme than him so it remained hidden whilst he was alive. It was such a shock. I saw a really good therapist who helped me unpick all of this. To this day my mum minimises everything that happened and cannot understand why we don't have a great relationship. You have to remember that your mum was an adult and had choices you did not have the ability to make because you were a child. She failed just as much as your dad. I bet when ever you bring this up she will say "I did my best" - I loathe this phrase.

VitalsStable · 25/09/2021 12:48

Only you can change the situation, you aren't going to get what you want from him, he won't apologise, admit his failings as a parent or change so all you can do to save yourself and your child from the trauma of the situation is come to terms with it. Access counselling and cut him and your mum off. When you are strong enough you could reach out to your mum and try to make her see sense but you can't do it now in your fragile state. You need to protect your mental health and that of your children. A traumatised parent will affect them.

Get healthy mentally and square it in your own mind and then reach out to your mum. You may feel differently about her role in your abuse once you've talked to a counsellor.

Good luck. It's hard but you and your children are the priority here and continuing contact is only going to cause you all more harm than good in the long run.

idiotmagnet · 25/09/2021 15:48

That's really interesting, terrible zebra. I think my reason for separating my father's culpability from my mother's is partly feeling sorry for her (quite possibly misplaced); partly in denial about her part in it and partly not wanting to confront the possibility (fact?) that neither of my parents loved me/cared for me/ performed their basic duties in keeping me safe. I suppose I'm clinging on to the hope that at least my mum cared...

OP posts:
idiotmagnet · 25/09/2021 15:51

Great advice, vitalsstable. I will find a therapist and seek their advice before doing/saying anything else.
I saw my dad briefly today when he dropped something off on behalf of my mum. No mention of my text about the abuse and acted totally normally (for him). I can't fathom it. It's a massive headf*.

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