Please help me get my head around this (possibly) bipolar-related separation - LOOONG ...

[Twoddle]

Dp and I have separated after nearly 12 years together. We have a three-year-old son. I wanted to separate too, for a while, to have some space and then regroup - but for him, it is absolute, and now I don't see how it can be anything but.

The past year to 18 months has been really trying, for both of us. Last autumn, having previously had several depressed phases in his life, ex-dp had what I can only term his first major 'high': for three months, he was out almost constantly, at parties and clubs, coining new business ideas and spending - on expensive cars, yachts, etc. In mid-December, prompted by a difficult patch at work, he very swiftly came crashing down and was depressed for the best part of six months, not going into work, and sleeping in every morning. He apologised for how he'd treated me/us the previous autumn, and around August time, seemed to re-emerge as his old self, for a bit.

He then went on a residential therapy course in September, to try to deal with some longstanding issues and find some equilibrium between the past year's extremes, and came back in a state I can only describe as 'manic'. The morning after he got home, he took ds to a garage in his new sports car at 7am to buy an ice lolly for breakfast, and later allowed ds to paint on the kitchen floor and unravel loo rolls around the house ...

For the past two months, with bipolar alarm bells ringing in my head, I have been trying to get him to slow down, stay in more, hold fire on some of his spending and business ideas - in between angry outbursts along the lines of why the hell isn't he spending more time with us and what about his responsibilities ...

Anyway, it came to a head last week when dp said that for him, it's over. I then found out that, in the week previously, he had arranged a threesome with two prostitutes, and slept with a woman he met in a local club a few weeks back. On the night we agreed to separate, he went to our favourite restaurant/hotel and had one of the earlier prostitutes back for the night 'because he felt lonely' and then had 'the best sex of his life'. He has since seen a third prostitute, stayed with this woman from the night club several more times, taken drugs, driven his car at nearly 130mph on the way to coming to take care of his son after three hours' sleep ... all in the space of less than two weeks. He's coming up to 30.

Ex-dp says he needs to move on because he believes he can find someone more attractive to be with (!), and who accepts him for who he is with all his business ideas and energy (my stance, for the past year, has been that I am an accepting person, but I do need to know who I am accepting, and lately that hasn't been the person I'd known for so long).

Personally, I am concerned that he has undiagnosed bipolar disorder - and am almost clinging to this possibility for an explanation of otherwise inexplicable, out-of-character and deeply hurtful behaviour. Prior to us separating, I had been trying to help him see that moods this extreme weren't healthy for him or us; trying to help him find balance. I don't know anyone with bipolar disorder, and ex-dp can seem so alarmingly clear and coherent and as though he has thought everything through so carefully; he has an answer for everything. It's quite beguiling - and yet I (and others) feel so much of how he is 'just isn't right'. Friends' various terms include that he is unrecognisable, has lost the plot, and is 'ill'. Others think he is fine, if a little exuberent.

Meanwhile, I am trying to care for ds while feeling desperately hurt and confused myself - to say that I am crap at playing and fun at the moment would be an understatement! I'm grieving for our happier times all together, of which there were many, and I'm so sad to see ds feeling so hurt and insecure at his family coming apart.

How the hell do I/others in this situation move on from this?! If, as I suspect, ex-dp has bipolar disorder, is there anything I can do? (He acknowledges he has extreme moods, but that's as far as he'll take it.) What if he does come crashing down again and deeply regrets all this?

What else could explain this most difficult year, if anything? Or is this kind of experience within the realm of 'normal' and I'm just naive?!

Totally perplexed and sad.

And insights? Thanks.

Goodness, it sounds awful, and well beyond the realms of 'normal'.

I don't have any useful words of advice as I haven't had any comparable experience, but I'm sure there will be someone along soon who can help you more. This much be so hard for you and your DS.

Twoddle - I cant think of anything to say. It really does sound bipolar, especially as this is the second time this has happened. I have been depressed on and off for years, and have had one 'manic' phase which was medication related, and I know it was immensely hard on my dh (and all I did was want to stay on holiday in Canada instead of coming home, I was pretty OK in comparison to your dh).

Will he seek help? Would it help youto talk it over. If you think he is that ill, maybe you should talk tot he doctors who have treated him before - they couldnt give you any info, but what you tell them might make a difference. It sounds, tbh, that he is a danger to himself, adn worringly, to your ds if he is not sleeping and driving erratically. You might need to think abotu asking for a psychiatric assessment before you let ds go off with him anywhere - as he has a history of psychiatric problems, you would be well within your rights to do so. Does he have a CPN? That, or the place he had residential therapy, might be a good port of call.

I am aware, though dont have experience, of how hard living with mental illness is (because I have been the sufferer). Please take care. My sister once had a bipolar partner, adn this all sounds quite familiar, so I think you should assume this could be part of the problem. Also, is he going to come crawling back when he comes 'down"? How would you cope with that. You should deffo talk to someone, about him and especialy for your own benefit.

Take care, I'll pop back and se how you are doing,

Harrisey x

Sounds like classic bipolar behaviour, which you probably already know.
I think there may be a crash soon, where he will regret his recent actions. Maybe during this time you could persuade him to see a doctor.
I don't really know what else you can do, try talking to your GP as a first port of call to see what options are open to you with regards to what action they can take.

online diagnosis obvs not possible but i would say that does sound quite possible i can identify with some of those things..

My dh is bipolar. it does sound very likely that this is what is going on, however so much of this behaviour would be a deal breaker for me. we have reached a place where we manage his behaviour together and he trust me enough that i cna spot the warning signs and he listens. this has taken years but it is now possible. just because he gets a diagnosis does not mean that you need to put up with infidelity and exposing you and your ds to risks. imo to have a good relationship with someone with this diagnosis is difficult and he needs to be much further down the line towards regaining some control. for eg, in our house drugs and booze are absolutely banned even in small amounts.

I have no experience of this but just wanted you to know that I'm thinking of you.

The only thing I can say is that if he can't accept that he has a problem, then I don't there is really nothing you can do unfortunately. Until he realises that he might be unwell and seeks help then he will continue on this almost self-destructive road. But again, I have no experience of mental illness so cannot really advise as such.

It is also down to you and you alone as to whether you wish to wait for him. He has treated you very, very badly and you have been very patient already, but you also have to think about you and your ds and the mental and physical well being of the two of you.

Sounds like bipolar to me to - BIL has it but it is fully under control with medication. Before he was diagnosed he went though similar things to your DP - staying up all night/partying harder than is humanly possible, going for weeks with little or no sleep, having no rational thought - if he saw something he wanted (another person's possession) he'd have to have it - to the point of offering much more expensive items in exchange.
Please get him to see someone about it, I know medication is not everyone's idea of a solution but it has made my BIL 100% better - to the point where I mostly forget he has bi-polar disorder.
As Mutha says he may well be heading for a crash soon. I'm thinking of you - you're doing great trying to find out more about it and wanting to support him.

Sorry it was lilacclaire, not mutha

Thanks for your supportive messages. Yes, in so many respects, I think ex-dp must have bipolar. And I feel terrible for almost wanting him to , simply because it would explain the hurt he's caused us, and the turbulent year he'd had himself. I realise it's notoriously difficult to manage; I figure at least he/we would know what we are dealing with. If he doesn't have bipolar, I just can't reconcile the past year in my head, and there is no closure to the relationship.

After a blazing row a few weeks ago (so many discussions lately have quickly escalated to a row - ex-dp seems uncharacteristically irritable/quick to anger), ex-dp said that I was the only person who had a problem with him, and that I should go and speak to his friends. I have, and it's been revealing. A lot of us are concerned about him, and I discovered that in one circle of friends, he has actually earned the affectionate nickname 'Crazy [dp's name]'.

On the other hand, one of my closest friends, who met up with him the other night, said yes, he wasn't the man she knew a few years ago, and he was a bit self-important and 'wired', but essentially he seemed OK, and very sure of his recent choices. Is an almost uncompromising, absolute decisiveness symptomatic? My friend thinks ex-dp has simply changed and now wants different things in life to me, and that going on a drinking/drug/sex bender is normal-ish upon splitting up with a long-term partner.

We are now entering the difficult process of trying to divide up our business, and while ex-dp has always handled the financial side of things and I have trusted him to do so, I'm a bit wary of him taking care of the money split with him as he is at the moment. Sensing this, he has said if I don't trust him, he may feel less inclined to make life easy for me.

Last weekend, a good mutual friend and I went through the symptoms of bipolar on MDF's website (the UK bipolar charity), and ticked all of them for mania, and most for depression. Ex-dp scored a 70% probability in the diagnostic questionnaire. But I think there really is nothing we can do.

My ideal would be as moopymoo says - major life hygiene, with no stimulants (dp has consumed unusually high quantities of coffee and chocolate in the past two months - I have found large chocolate wrappers all over the place), regular sleep patterns, nothing too adventurous/stressful - the simply life I would like for myself anyway. Ex-dp wants (at the moment) a wild, alive, stimulating life, involving lots of socialising, stimulants, business projects, flying lessons, fast cars, etc. I can't imagine him ever wanting to slow down to what he would see as a ploddy existence - unless he had a really, really low phase. Although he said he felt suicidal earlier this year. Oh, I don't know!

Meanwhile, ds is struggling. Last night, ex-dp came over to help with bedtime, and witnessed ds's new boundary-pushing behaviour. Ds also became very upset at lights out and said he wanted to be on his own and to cry and cry and cry. I said to ex-dp that he needs to be so sure of his recent choices and behaviour, given the hurt and damage he is causing, and he rather clinically is. Oh dear.

Anyway, there's the update! If anyone has any other insights or thoughts, I'd be grateful to hear them. Thanks.

(Sorry so long - a bit complicated ...)

Bump.

Again, sorry it's so long - but any insights and advice would be helpful. Having a bl**dy tough time.

Thanks

Your ex could be biploar or not. 1) you can't daignose him, 2) you can't treat him and 3) you can't make him get help. The people you need to look after at the moment are you and your son. You've saod a lot about helping your ex, trying to understand him etc. but it comes down to him having treated you very badly (whatever teh reasons) and wanting to leave. I really don;t think there's anything you can do until he is ready, and even then it will be up to him.

1. Have you seen a solicitor? You need to make sure you and your family are looked after
2. Do you have someone you can talk to/rant at without it getting back to your ex?

FWIW, my mum has severe bipolar disorder but she has never done anything to actively hurt her family, even in her most manic phases.

Thanks, Effie. All good points. V practical advice at a v emotional time. I am too attached to this possibility, I know - wanting it to make sense of everything. But you're right - I can't do anything about it, whether he has bipolar or not. I suppose it comes from caring about him as a person, for a long time, and knowing who he was before changing a year to 18 months ago.

Solicitor = good advice. Money decision-making is in motion.

Thank you again, and interesting re: your mum never doing anything so hurtful. Could suggest it's more within my ex's character/nature than anything else then, which is a thought.

Sorry. on re-reading that sounded a bit heartless. It's just that I know dealing with this kind of irrational behaviour is really, really hard (hard on my sister and me as children, even harder on my dad as partner). So you need to protect yourself as a first priority, esp in view of your ex's behaviour towards you. It could be down to the manic phase, it certainly blurs decision making, but I relaly think there's a stage at whicih you need to step back and think about what you need.

sorry you are having a tough time twoddle

i read you posts quite carefully

part of the problem is that if he is bipolar then he is also of course subject to the usual range of emotions, desires, doubts, excitements and it is sometimes difficult to distinguish between say his feeling that he wants different things and if he was bipolar that interfering with what would be considered normal thinking..you can't really easily separate personality and inclination from exaggerated impulses of being bipolar

So what i am saying is that you might both be changing as well in that you are or would be content to lead a quite settled mature laid back kind of life and he might be leaning toward the that sounds far too dull for me feeling...

The kind of lkife hygiene things you mention do help and are really necesary but to someone enjoying a racy kind of manic life they just aren't always that appealing

If you are buzzing then you tend to want to stay that way..until possibly it becomes freakily wired when one option is to self medicate with alcohol to bring you down

Being totally wired is fun ..losing control in a spectacular crash and burn isn't

Also it is quite unpredictable how long being up or down might last there are different kinds of cycles in bipolarity (if that is a word)and also it is possible to have long periods even years of relative stability or to cycle round incredibly rapidly over 24 hour periods

It is actually quite common I think something like 1/100 people or something so lots of people and it is under diagnosed if u like so probably more than that

It is possible to work, have relationships and family and etc etc without anyone really knowing...but i think most people do have periods when everything goes pear shaped

It's quite possible to put yourself under loads of stress by starting loads of projects and making promises filling huge amounts of time with activities when you are up only to find that it is nigh on impossible to cope with it all when you are down and the deadlines and promises all have to be fulfilled so life becomes littered with more and more stressful unfinished stuff and people badgering you when you are feeling too low to contem0plate doing anything whatsoever

Sorry this is a load of drivel...which probably doesn't help

As for trusting him with money, if he has successfully handled money at any time then he will be able to again..it is a case of learning to manage risk at a level he feels comfortable with

Risk taking is part of the bipolar pattern and althpough it seems a bad thing it isn't always

Bipolar thinking is on a continuum from if you like normal to potentiallly psychotic and different people feel uncomfortabl;e with a partner or themselves at some point on that line which is different for different people and...if you have little money then spending sprees are going to be more serious than if you are comfortably off ditto sex..if you are in a monogamous relationship then sex drive is a problem if it leads to disruptive casual encounters, if you are single perhaps less so

It would help if he recognised that he might have a mental health problem..some gps are more clued up than pothers there is a good book to read called touched with fire it is a good read and fascinating so I recommend it

I don't think it is impossible to live with a partner who is bipolar and have a good relationship ...I hope not anyway

But like any relationship it is hard at times

what a nightmare twoddle. i think a lot of the hurtful behaviour and statements do sound like bi-polar - must still hurt though. DP's father was bi-polar and it made life so hard for their mum, and DP and his brothers, although I'm not saying that will always be the case for families with a bi-polar member. I think DP's dad never really used support properly, from family or professionals, it was all on his terms (lots of understandable reasons for that of course, especially when you consider the state of psychiatry 30 years ago when he developed it). unfortunately it does sound as though your DP really has no insight at the moment, so there is still a long way to go before you are even at a point of considering whether you could / would offer him your support. look after yourself and your ds in the meantime.

sorry that was long

but i have thought of something else asw well

I don't know if it is common to everyone but at times i reach a point when i just do feel like doing things to see what happens...like jumpoinmg in a fast car and just winging it ..both metaphorically and actually

surrendering to fate maybe

the consequences just don't seem to matter

hard to explain but it sometimes feels like you are making up life like being in a film and in this frame of mind you can choose to include other people in the script....

this surprisingly does sometimes seem to have a good side as it gives you confidence and unshakeable conviction but it can also end up being a bit of a disaster waiting to happen

if it goes right of course then it's ok maybe even a flash of brilliance..the fine balance between either possiblity is the potential risk

so what i am saying is that being manic is a bit like being constantly tempted by a load of buttons you can press to see what happens and having no fear or inhibition about the consequences because it doesn't really matter

being depressed or mixed depressed and manic is different..the latter is potentially the most dangerous frame of mind i think and when people are most likely to commit suicide

rider everything i say is purely personal opinion so please read it as such

Hi,

there is a thread entitled jekyll and hyde about bi=poplar further down, have a look

Thank you all - zippi, especially, with personal insights.

I can see what you mean, re: ex really could just want to take his life on a different course. I haven't really changed much (or so I'm told). Dp, who as a teenager was into fast cars and financial aspirations, seemed to mellow over the years and become a very people-orientated, easy-going, loving and cheerful person, content with the simple life. We set up some eco-housing locally, went veggie, and seemed to be on the same path. That is why this new high-octane living ex-dp is so hard to understand.

And when ex-dp returned from the September course, he proposed to me. After tentatively accepting, two days later I said actually, maybe we should hold fire until life normalises a little, as I was finding him a bit too intense. I think he's really hurt by this - he wants to be accepted for who he is (who?!) - and for him, that's it. Argh.

But yes, maybe this is simply a changing of direction, and we can't move forward together with such different values. What I'm interested to see is if, as he did at the beginning of this year when ex-dp had crashed into a low, he apologises profusely for how he has treated us in recent months and his values change all over again. Hmm.

Got to go, but again, THANK YOU all.

x