Parents who stonewall you?

[NoMeEscuchan]

It's really shocking isn't it, when you finally have faith in your own interpretation of events and you finally trust your own perception and so you know that (for example) what happened here is just that they hurt me, I told them that, and then they martyred up and stonewalled me for two years.......... They have demonised me, silenced me, martyred up, smeared me, but still, I know what happened.

The reason they will not communicate with me is because they might have to acknowledge that what I did, my ''crime'' was to tell them they hurt me, and then, acknowledge that I don't get to have a perspective like that.

So they have stonewalled me for nearly two years.

Their defenses and their denial have really depleted me over the years. I'm in therapy again now and I'm trusting in my own perception of what has gone on the last few years.

But............... my parents are trashing me to the extended family.

I know that Mae West said what other people think of me is none of my business and I am channeling that ok at the moment. I know that these aunts weren't close enough to me for it to be like a betrayal per se, obviously they are going to believe my mother. And if they're not emotionally intelligent enough to realise that my mother has left a lot out of her account and probably added a lot in too, then so. be. it.

I do not need a family. I need a SELF.

I'd rather have peace, ease and a self.

If I ever communicate with them again it will have to be done differently.

I'm in therapy but it isn't like a magic wand. The problems still remain. They just hurt a bit less, but they still hurt.

How do you communicate with people who reserve the right to deny you any real voice, connection, communication in the ''relationship''??
Any tips?

It's simple.
You live your life well.

How do you communicate with people who reserve the right to deny you any real voice, connection, communication in the ''relationship''??

You don't. You need to stay well away from your parents going forward. You did not 'make them this way and its not your fault they are like this. You are also under no obligation to keep lining yourself up be abused, belittled, shamed or humiliated. They will adamantly stick to their own narrative and trashing the person on the receiving end to extended family is typical also.

Consider having a read of the current "Well we took you to Stately Homes" thread on these Relationships pages and read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward.

You don't communicate. You stay no contact and you live a happier life without them. Focus on friendships and let the family, who are causing you stress, sod off. You don't need to be in contact with aunts or any other family members who then relay what your parents are saying about you. Block them if you have to.

Do you have to communicate with them?

These are people who hurt you. In adult life, we generally don't associate with people who are horrible to us so why should you.

Equally, most people don't respond well to being told that you found them obnoxious - they do get defensive, so while you feel that you told your parents your truth and expected them to respond in a loving, apologetic way, it's sadly not surprising that they have responded by saying 'well actually we don't see it that way, the problem is you'.

The best response is to be you, without them. There are billions and billions of people in the world, lose the horrible ones and focus on the good ones.

The best response is to be me without them. Yes, thank you @anniMagani

Also, @AttilaTheMeerkat ''You are also under no obligation to keep lining yourself up be abused, belittled, shamed or humiliated.''

Yes, it's a combination of accepting that I must give up and not feeling guilty about not trying anymore.

I'm not going to have a policy of never talking to them because that's their gig, but I need to stop trying to communicate with them because it is the not being heard that triggers me and then they judge me for that.

Mantra for now. ''I am not obliged to line up to be silenced and shamed so I will just be me without them for now''.

Thank you. This has helped. I have posted before (big crime on mumsnet) but sometimes you just get the wisdom pared down to the bare essentials and it penetrates.

Are you still seeking their approval on some level? Your post reads a little like you are. You simply need to live your life with a little distance from your parents because you're not a child anymore. That's true for every single one of us, it just looks a little different in each case. Good luck with therapy.

During therapy my focus has changed a little from what they think of me to what I think of them

But still, although I believe I know what's gone on, I still want them to not to think badly of me, but they do, because I put forward ''my side''.
Because they were so absolutely determined not to hear me, simply giving them my side -which fell on deaf ears - has allowed them to label me '''angry'' ''sensitive'' ''emotional''.
I shouldn't have been put in the position of having to defend myself and therefore be ''defensive''.
I'm not an angry person but i am angry with them. But I also understand now how futile it was to try and get through to them.

I could distance myself from normal human flaws. Nobody has to be perfect. I'm not and I know I'm not. But when the flaw is ''respect our right to be hurtful'' it doesn't leave you with many options. Either stay in the family, being eroded, or leave.

I tried the option of ''getting through to them'' but that was never an option. I just didn't know that at the time. I know now. :-/

During therapy my focus has changed a little from what they think of me to what I think of them

It's more about what you think of you, really. You need the self confidence to leave them behind, without feeling that you need to compare it to what they're doing to you.

This isn't about them. This is about your relationship with yourself. Otherwise you would have accepted long ago that they damage you, and nobody is obliged to have a relationship with anybody who damages them,.

Could you speak to your therapist about inner child work? Or maybe you have already? Some of what you write makes me think that you need to connect with the part of you that felt rejected and ignored and stop that ongoing pattern within yourself. They don't hold the rights to that stuff anymore, it's all within your own capacity to meet the needs that they failed to meet.

Also I read something recently that helped me. The mind cannot hold two conflicting beliefs at once. So in your post you say you are not an angry person but you are angry at them and that also you understand that people can be flawed and that they are not perfect and you can accept that. Can you see that within that there are quite a few conflicts and therefore ongoing confusion about what you think? Sometimes therapy can help us to direct our energy to effectively cut through the crap and just hold the emotion. That has helped me to have clarity.

The mind cannot hold two conflicting beliefs at once

Yes, it absolutely can, and it's often the reason that victims allow abusive relationships to continue. It's called cognitive dissonance. It's a really important concept to recognise. The mind 'isn't comfortable holding conflicting beliefs' is very different from 'the mind cannot hold two conflicting beliefs'.

You are discounting a lot of peoples' experience by mis-phrasing this, including OP's.

Getting back to your first post - my answer is that you can’t. You can’t change them. Eventually it also becomes our own fault if we allow people to continually hurt us. It sounds like they have handed you the scissors here…

I’m so sorry if that sounded a bit blunt, it’s just that as PP’s have said, it’s more about you regaining your sense of you and how you love yourself, your relationship with yourself, your own worth and how no other person in this world should make you feel this way. Don’t allow them.

The stately homes thread is absolutely amazing. Google narcissistic parents too. Have the courage to put yourself first and be kind to yourself. If you were my daughter, I would listen and make things right. I would and will NEVER talk about my own daughter behind her back. Adults/Children of any age are precious and life is too short for you to be upset. Thinking of you at this hard time.

Eventually it also becomes our own fault if we allow people to continually hurt us

The distinction between fault and responsibility is useful. It's never the victim's fault that they are being abused. But it is the victim's responsibility to walk away, for their own wellbeing. Fault looks backwards, responsibility looks forwards.

it is the victim's responsibility to walk away

This is exactly right.

We can't keep going back for more then complaining about it, it took me a long time to realise this. Just walk away OP, life can be peaceful and happy and full of joy if you want it.

@EggAndHasBeans

it is the victim's responsibility to walk away

This is exactly right.

We can't keep going back for more then complaining about it, it took me a long time to realise this. Just walk away OP, life can be peaceful and happy and full of joy if you want it.

Thank you that makes me feel less guilt about just giving up

You go no contact. It does not matter what they or anyone else says or thinks.

@coffeeisthebest

Also I read something recently that helped me. The mind cannot hold two conflicting beliefs at once. So in your post you say you are not an angry person but you are angry at them and that also you understand that people can be flawed and that they are not perfect and you can accept that. Can you see that within that there are quite a few conflicts and therefore ongoing confusion about what you think? Sometimes therapy can help us to direct our energy to effectively cut through the crap and just hold the emotion. That has helped me to have clarity.

Cognitive dissonance is when the mind holds two conflicting beliefs at once but I don't think that's what I'm going through.

When I'm at home with my teenagers, when they diss me, gripe about dinner, make a mess, I deal with it calmly. When people are a little insensitive at work, I don't make it all about me. When strangers jump the queue I don't dwell on it. I have friends and I have good healthy relationships with them and with colleagues and until recently, some relatives. But I am triggered around my parents' not hearing me so I think the two things are true' that I'm not an angry person and I feel anger now. I have perspective. I'm not resentful. I have a lot to be grateful for and there are things I value about my parents only they won't listen and I'm also angry that they won't listen long enough to hear what I do value about them. Just a total shut down of all communication.

I'm not perfect but I'm not externalising my inadequacies. My parents have behaved in a way that is very hurtful and they refuse to acknowledge that. I will get through it. Actually I feel less anger than I did. So I'm working my way through it.

@NoMeEscuchan

Think about guilt regarding your own wellbeing. How guilty would you feel if you put somebody through years more of the treatment you're currently giving yourself?

Any pain that now comes is self caused. The actual events are in the past. If the space between your ears didn't exist, the abuse would not exist today. This means that you are in charge of the abuse, now, and its affects on you. In the same way that you are responsible for not thinking about ghosts and burglars at bedtime, because you just know how that's going to make you feel (jittery, scared to shut your eyes, crap night's sleep etc), you can change the stories in your head so that you are not replaying things that are no longer happening.

You are in control. You are responsible. There is no higher entity watching and judging you, so there's no guilt to feel. Do what is right for you, and keep away from a) your parents and b) anybody else who makes you feel rubbish.

@Clouds78 thank you

@TheFoundations Yes, I know, nobody can make me feel inferior without my consent and if I decide I am not hurt no harm was done to me.

I'm only just at the point where I can channel this. I think I'm nearly there now. I can do it. But that's been at the end of two years of such pain in which time I tried to ''force'' communication on my parents. ie, I talked at them, gave them my side and they put their hands over their ears and said la la la la la la so even though now finally I've reached a mature place where I feel strong enough to believe that no harm was done to me if I refuse to feel it, they feel harm was done to them!!!!

ARgh............

I am in a better place mentally. After two very hard years. But they're still adamant that the problem is me.

So I really do think that my wisdom and detachment came too late.

For now the only option available is still distance.

God. Parents. Wish I"d been hatched from an egg and raised on the mothership.

Went through a similar process with my father after my Mum died. He turned into someone else overnight, totally withdrew any support from me and expected me to be his emotional crutch, until he met a new woman less than a year later, and dropped me like a hot brick.

I tried over and over to re-start the relationship, and he just knocked me back over and over for years. It was so damaging. It's been much better for me to just let the relationship go. It was torturous before.

Now, he tells my brother that it's a shame I'm 'so set in my ways', and won't consider having contact with him again.

Never look back!

It does sound like you have many conflicting emotions surrounding this. Therapy or more so the right therapist with really help. I have friends who have said that going NC was the only option for them and in doing so, they set themselves free emotionally. This is your life and your decision - don’t get caught up too much on the psychological technicalities and textbook talk. What is it that you want to achieve? Where do you want to be and how would you like to feel in say a years time? Focus on a realistic way of achieving that.