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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Scared Dad

22 replies

CroccyCroc · 18/09/2021 21:31

I am scared my ex wife is going to take the children back. Background is they came to live with me after she was put in hospital for a long time for mental health reasons. At the time she was not allowed the children back. Now the authorities say there is nothing to stop her. I am trying to work with her on a plan to phase return them as suggested by authorities which was all planned. She's now gone back on this and said she's just going to take them back.

  1. I am worried she won't cope without a phased return and potential of relapse.
  2. She keeps threatening to take them back when I try to talk to her about things. I am scared to stick up for myself and it's causing problems in my current relationship. For example, she will decide last minute changes of times for hand back of children. She doesn't always take all the children if they are being difficult about going with her.

How do I stick up for myself? She only has them one night per week currently and I do rely on this time for my down time and to prepare for the week ahead. Every time there is a problem and my time goes out the window. When I have the children she just won't reply if I try to contact her, even when one of the children were in hospital.

I feel like I am not allowed a life and I need to be able to explain to her without her keep threatening to take the children that I have a life outside of our children and for my own mental well-being I need that precious time without drama.

We were married for many years and I have put up with this from her all of that time. Whenever we need to have conversations or discuss things, if she feels it's not what she wants she threatens me with taking them back,

I just need to be able to get her to respect me and my life. I can't keep living like this.

Is the only answer to go to court to set it all out officially?

OP posts:
Northeastsouthwest21 · 18/09/2021 21:48

@CroccyCroc 100% go to court and do it officially. Otherwise this will be your life until they are adults.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 18/09/2021 23:25

Yes the answer is to make it official, though that's more so she can't just take DC, as you can't actually make her take them on her contact time. If DC are 10+ they may be able to have their voices heard on what they want. I would start a diary to record when she wants changes, what & when she threatens, contact time she doesn't use and so on. What do you mean by a phased return? As in increasing custody slowly towards 50/50? If it's a plan to return majority custody to her theirs no reason you'd have to agree to that and I wouldn't be doing that given her behaviour.

CroccyCroc · 19/09/2021 09:26

If I go to court and we arrange the contact schedule that way, does it have to be adhered to? What happens when she keeps threatening or if she decides she can't cope again?

She's saying she's taking some of the children and wants me to keep the rest, however, some of the rest who are over the age of 10 want to go back and live with her. How is this resolved, I am worried what it will do to them her effectively saying she doesn't want them back living there.

She says if it goes to court she will only do every other weekend. She won't take any responsibility for them during the week because 'she works'. She won't contribute to any wrap around care costs. It's all her way or no way. I'm on the edge of losing my own job because she is messing me around constantly.

OP posts:
GoodnightGrandma · 19/09/2021 09:30

Document it all to prove that she can’t possibly have them back permanently.

GoodnightGrandma · 19/09/2021 09:32

Regarding your job, what did you do when you had them full time ?
If you plan your job that they’re always with you, even if they’re not, won’t that help ?

LemonTT · 19/09/2021 09:46

This will all get worked out in court. Stop listening to what she threatens. If she wants to put some of these daft proposals and threats in writing, all the better for your case.

Dery · 19/09/2021 09:58

“This will all get worked out in court. Stop listening to what she threatens. If she wants to put some of these daft proposals and threats in writing, all the better for your case.”

This. And yes, if it’s in a court order you both have to follow the arrangements as laid out in the court order otherwise you will be in contempt of court.

RandomMess · 19/09/2021 10:08

She doesn't sound well enough to be reasoned decisions in the best interests of the DC.

Take it to court because you and the DC need consistency.

CroccyCroc · 19/09/2021 10:09

I had some wrap around care and some help from family and friends. Family and friends was only a short term thing and I struggle to afford the childcare needed. I don't know that I'll be able to afford court and im worried I'll have no choice but to hand them back. It's all such a mess.

OP posts:
CroccyCroc · 19/09/2021 10:12

@RandomMess

She doesn't sound well enough to be reasoned decisions in the best interests of the DC.

Take it to court because you and the DC need consistency.

I'm not allowed to mention her mental health. She always blames her behaviour on that and blames me for her mental health going backwards when Ive been trying hard to work with her to come up with a plan that is best for the children.

In court how will they know if she is mentally well enough? She seems to have pulled the wool over the eyes of the authorities.

OP posts:
JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue · 19/09/2021 10:17

I'm not allowed to mention her mental health.

Says who?

RandomMess · 19/09/2021 10:18

You can self rep in court.

Is she back working?

Do you have the child benefit in your name and are you claiming UC to help with childcare costs?

50:50 is the starting point for shared care of the DC. If you are continually being reasonable and offering 50:50 after sole care then she isn't going to come across well in court is she?

CroccyCroc · 19/09/2021 10:28

@JenniferAllisonPhillipaSue

I'm not allowed to mention her mental health.

Says who?

Says she. She specifically requested it not be discussed when we met with the authorities and they said we had to respect her decision. Despite the fact that is the reason everyone's lives were turned upside down in the first place. The children are struggling because of how quickly she disappeared to hospital and now she's back like nothing happened.

All benefits are in my name. Unfortunately UC haven't always paid me back when I've put my claim in so I've really struggled at times. She barely contributes. She earns very little, and will be stopping work again when she has more care of them she says.

Will the court make her take them some time in the week so she's not going 2 weeks without seeing her children? One minute she's happy with that and the next she's threatening to take them. This to me shows mental instability but I can't mention it without it causing further drama. I feel if she wants to be a parent she needs to do her fair share including some nights in the week.

OP posts:
LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 19/09/2021 12:01

@CroccyCroc she won't be able to demand to see DC as it suits if you get a court order about contact arrangements, but no one can actually make her take the DC at the times she commits to or to have them more than she wants. She wouldn't be the first person to fight for contact in court and then only keep it up for a short time. What outcome do you want ideally? Is it she has them EOW and pays CM? Or 50/50 and no CM or something inbetween? She doesn't have any more 'rights' to the DC then you do. Though it's not actually rights, you both have the same parental responsibility, she can decide not to see them ever, but if she just took them you could go court and make an official agreement on contact.

Given you say the same kind of issues occurred in your marriage it doesn't seem realistic to expect her to treat you better in seperation then she treated you when married. You're not going to convince her to stop messing you around or to consider your mental health needs. You stick up for yourself by following the legal processes to make contact official by going to court, you apply for child maintenance if she works, you get child benefit for all DC in your name and see if you qualify for UC and if you qualify for reduced child care costs. Try the entitled to website for information on what benefits you qualify for and I've heard wikivorce is good for UK divorce advice divorce.wikivorce.com/

Then like other parents who ends up with majority care with an unreliable Ex you find a way to make things work that isn't reliant on said Ex, who is only interested in seeing her DC when and if it suits her. I'm not saying that to hurt you and I expect it probably sounds impossible to you, but it's less impossible than your Ex suddenly being respectful and considerate of you and mutual DCs needs. It's the unfortunate reality for those of us who have DC with people like your Ex and my stbxh. You can't rely on her, you can't count on her, she doesn't have a better side you can appeal too and if she didn't respect you and consider your needs during marriage, there is no way she's going to treat you better in divorce.

I have SEN DC, an emotionally abusive, controlling stbxh who can't deal with our DC SEN needs and am disabled and very sick with a chronic illness, so I'm coming at this as someone whose very much had to force myself moment by moment to go on for my DC. All they have is me. You centre your DC in this and you find a way through, for all your sakes.

I know several amazing single parents, both female and male, who all have 90-100% care of DC. It's so far from easy, they all have various challenges on top of being the only responsible parent their DC have, various abusive Ex's, SEN, their own life limiting illnesses, severe mental health issues and I know how hard they find it, we have our breakdowns when things get too much, cry, sob, think we can't go on, rail at life and then force ourselves to get back up again and go on as best we can. Those struggling with mental health have stuck up for themselves by seeing their GP, taking medication, trying new ones if those don't work, getting therapy, hanging on in the meantime because the waits can be long. We get back up again, because the alternative is our DC falling through the cracks.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 19/09/2021 12:06

@CroccyCrocthe the court has no power to make a parent see their DC more than they want to and they wouldn't try, it's not in a child's best interests to do so and could be dangerous in some cases . She can chose to walk away and never see them again. The only thing that can be enforced is child maintenance, but if she only gets benefits that will be close to nothing.

GoodnightGrandma · 19/09/2021 12:35

@CroccyCroc

I had some wrap around care and some help from family and friends. Family and friends was only a short term thing and I struggle to afford the childcare needed. I don't know that I'll be able to afford court and im worried I'll have no choice but to hand them back. It's all such a mess.
But she quite obviously can’t have /doesn’t want them all.
CroccyCroc · 19/09/2021 12:54

Thanks Luna!

Ideally it would be 50/50 as I am not naive enough to not consider how she will manage in reality, but I do also want them to have a relationship with her.

What happens if she tells the court she wants to have them more than I do, will they allow her? What happens if she asks for some and not all even when the others are asking to go back? I have no words about the fact she's picking and choosing specific children, it's heartbreaking.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 19/09/2021 13:08

I doubt the courts would agree to her picking and choosing DC at all. They look at the welfare of the DC.

They may support split contact where she has 2 at a time on a rota but that would be on her health grounds.

There are no guarantees by going to court but it would stop her bullying you and Cafcass would be involved to look at the best interests of the children.

girlmom21 · 19/09/2021 13:20

100% take her to court. My dad got residency and my SM got PR and that was the best thing that could have happened.

The court documents said it would be revisited with my mother wanted regular contact but it never went back to court.

The stability is what we needed - although we were much younger.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 19/09/2021 23:46

The court centre's DCs needs in deciding contact. I can't see them giving her more than 50/50 and you'd have valid arguments for working towards that slowly. She doesn't really have any arguments for having them more than that, especially as you've been the one doing the majority of parenting and she's not even realiably taking them for current contact. That's one reason documenting with date things like when she does and doesn't have, when she refuses to take all of them, when she turns up and leaves without them all, is important. Document everything.

FangsForTheMemory · 20/09/2021 00:06

I knew someone who took his ex to court for custody. He said he got a specialist solicitor. Good luck.

CroccyCroc · 20/09/2021 13:16

Thank you for the comments.

I'm trying so hard to remain calm under the circumstances, she does not make it easy for me.

I have suggested we try mediation for the children's best interest in the first instance as I believe I wouldn't be able to just go straight to court with this. I don't have much hope she will agree to that though.

OP posts:
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