Can a liar change if they seek help?

[Sam776]

I hope it's ok to post here, but I really would like a female perspective please. My girlfriend and I have been together for 18 months, and I truly love her, and wanted a future with her. Early on in our relationship I realised that she had lied to me a couple of times whilst rowing. Both times when I asked her if she had, she lied again, denying it and got really angry with me for asking. She told me that I was just like her ex who used to accuse her of lying also. I have trust issues as my ex used to lie to me all the time, so this really messed with my head and began to feel awful for thinking she had lied and that my own trust issues were clouding my judgement. Fast forward a few months, and she admitted that she had infact lied.
I war relieved to know the truth, but my trust was broken. I know people fib, but I struggled to get over the fact that once asked, she not only continued to lie, but messed with my head to make me feel I was going insane in the first place.
I decided to give things another go, and things were really good, although I never 100% let go of what she did early on in the relationship. We talked loads, and I wanted to believe it wouldn't happen again.
Anyway, the last 2 months have been really rocky, mainly due to me struggling to let go of what she did. We agreed to try therapy to see if we could get past things as we had so much going for us.

Come last week though and I realised she had lied to me again. I was pretty shocked and stunned and asked her if she had. She reverted back to the earlier days, denied it and got really angry with me. She blamed me again, saying I just didn't trust her because of the earlier parts of our relationship, cried that she couldn't believe I would doubt her. I told her that if she didn;t stop then we would be over as I couldn't do this again. She got angry that I was preparing to walk away for something she hadn't done, and I left. I spent all night torturing myself that maybe it was all in my head, but the next day she came to me inconsolable and admitted she had lied.

She knew that she had destroyed our relationship and admitted that she doesn't know what comes over herself to gaslight me like this. She says that she doesn't think and in that moment it's like something else takes over her thoughts. She has booked herself into therapy and has had 2 sessions do far. The only saving grace I have is that she came to me the next day and admitted that she had gaslighted me and how sorry she was. She didn't have to do this but did even though she knew there was a very high chance I would leave her.
She is desperately hoping that I will give things another go if she can heal from her past trauma and stop lying.
I could cope with the odd lie, it's how she turns afterwards when confronted. In that moment, she will say anything at all to deny or guilt trip me into thinking that it is all in my head.
I guess my question is, can liars change when they will go to these extremes? I haven't told her that I will give things another go, as I'm worried her gas lighting may indicate that she is just an abusive liar deep down rather than someone who is still in the grips of past trauma. I do love her though, and don't want to look back on a couple of years time, see that she has healed herself and regret not giving things another chance once she has finished her therapy? Any ideas?

If you can't forgive her for past lies, why does it matter whether she lies in the future? The trust is gone already.

Also, even if she stopped lying right now and didn't ever lie again, at what point would you know and trust that she would never lie again? You can only know in retrospect, can't you? So you're looking at a future with somebody who might lie, and might gaslight you.

Is that the future you want?

Do not sell yourself short.

If there is no trust, there is no relationship. There is really no future with someone like described and she may well need years of therapy, not just a few sessions. This is ingrained behaviour on her part.

You state you love her; are you really confusing love here with codependency?.

I was in a relationship for 5 years with a man who initially I trusted completely, although I knew that he had lied/exaggerated things to others I believed he wouldn't do that to me and that he was fundamentally honest and wouldn't lie to me.

I caught him out in a few lies over the years, some minor some more serious - he completely denied it even though I had proof - and he turned it back on me and became angry with me for doubting him etc.

It took me a long time to realise that he was just a pathological liar, he was lying to himself half the time and didn't really seem to be able to recognise what was the truth as he could convince himself (and me and others) that black was white. I realised that he lied to me on so many different levels and that I just couldn't trust anything he said anymore.

It really shocked me because I had trusted him so much but the trust was completely broken. I eventually managed to end the relationship properly (after taking him back on one occasion as I still loved him). When I did he acted as if he was completely devastated, would do anything to get me back blah blah blah but he didn't really change at all and I knew that for my own sake I couldn't do it anymore even though I still loved him.

That was absolutely the right decision and I have no doubt that he is now gaslighting some other poor woman.

I don't know whether your GF can change OP but I'm my experience it is highly unlikely and once the trust has gone it's almost impossible to get it back.

Why would she seek help? She chooses to lie to you because she wants to.

She then gaslighting you afterwords (when they lie about lying. And try to convince you you are going nuts rather than accept and appologise for their lie).

She is an abuser. She is abusing you.
She does not need help. She is exactly who she is meant to be, the perfect predator. No one can make a lion into a lamb.

Instead, you might be wise to seek therapy. To discuss why you are even considering taking back someone who treated you with such contempt.

You would also benefit from learning how to spot these people so that you don't invite another into your life unwittingly. Read up on narcissistic personality disorder (she could also be a straight up psychopath btw but npd is a good place to start). If you YouTube search 'lies narcissists tell' and 'gaslighting of a narcissist' I'm sure some good stuff will come up too.

Also, the ex accusing her of lying thing, look, it might be different for her but for me that made me have to be extremely honest about EVERYTHING.
In the hope he would not accuse me of anything like that.

In the of chance she is going through PTSD and therapy might help, then she really needs to choose it for herself because she wants to get better. Not because she thinks you'll leave her if she does not. Because how would you know it was genuine? And also....healing from past trauma is really a personal journey. Plus, she clearly shouldn't be dating right now, she is abusive no matter the reason.

This is exactly why lying is a deal breaker for me.

I wouldn't stay with her. What's the point? You'll never know whether you're hearing the truth or a lie.

I guess I think no one is perfect. We all have flaws. I have my own which some would find a deal breaker in the perfect world. I have lied to her twice in the middle of a row when I felt pushed in a corner, but I came to her within hours and admitted it, and told her. I think most people are capable of lying in the spur of the moment, but I guess it's what you choose to do with it afterwards that hurts me.
It's not just a simple case of an isolated lie, it's the complete gas lighting and emotional guilt trips that she does when confronted which indicate to me that it's a far bigger problem than just a lie.

I know deep down that I shouldn't go back even if she completes the therapy, as I don't think I will ever have piece of mind, I guess I'm just not at the point where I can accept it's over right now. Maybe after a few days I'll feel different