Emotional Abuse - practical advice in separation

[NoMoreBS]

Hi! Apologies on advance for the long post, but I am looking for some practical advice in how best to prepare for separation and ultimately divorce from my emotionally abusive husband. The following things are on my mind:

1. I have made an appointment with a local charity support worker to talk things through. Should I bring/prepare anything?
2. Received a fixed fee quote from a solicitor of £300 for initial conversation. It's a lot of money, and I don't really have the means to continue paying those rates if they were to support me with applying for injunctions or divorce proceedings (unless I can get a payment plan, is that common?) I think my income is too high for legal aid. Is it worth going ahead with the consultation even if I were then to apply for any orders myself? Anyone with experience of doing the application yourself?
3. He threatens to take my children if I proceed with divorce, and this is what I want to be most prepared for. I am afraid if I take out an occupation order, he will leave but take the children. And as we both have parental responsibility, there will be little I can do except go through court to get them back? Even if he does not take them immediately, he could turn up at school and pick them up. Is there anything that can accompany an occupation order that stipulates that the children are to stay with me? I don't wish to stop all contact for the children's sakes, but am afraid he will not return them.
4. Re the occupation order. He has no family or friends to stay with (neither do I) which I know will be an important consideration for a judge. Will I have better chances of getting the order if I offer to pay mortgage and bills on our home, leaving him with full income to find somewhere else to rent (I have higher income than him).
5. I am keeping a log of all abusive incidents (this is going back 2-3 years but the abuse has really been ongoing for 12 years of marriage and beyond). I have also recorded a conversation where he says multiple times that I'll lose the kids if I divorce him, but I guess that won't be allowed as evidence?
6. If the court won't accept to do the order without notice, am I right to think he will be notified and I may need to spend weeks living with him leading up to a court hearing?

Thanks for any insights you can offer, I'm nervous but so adamant to leave him this time and setting the right example for my lovely girls.

Hi OP, well done for taking the step to get out.

I'm afraid I don't have experience about the abuse part but I did not want to run without answering you. I hope others will come along with their valuable experience.

A few thoughts lawyers, based on experience from my divorce.

You need to find somebody good who knows their shit.... ask them their experience of dealing with your kind of case and get a feel for whether they answer your questions clearly and directly..... it's worth investing in the right expertise. You don't need them to be warm and fuzzy, but experienced, smart and a good listener so they actually get your situation is vital.

Lawyers are bloody expensive though, especially the good ones, so using them strategically is really important in keeping costs down:

1. There are a lot of free online resources I imagine - use them and inform yourself, so you are not spending money hearing information you could have got from a government website/ other trusted source.
2. Ask for forms in advance and fill them out yourself. (Lawyers can burn up a whole hour asking for your name, address, Tel no, kids names and ages etc filling out their forms.
3. Don't use them as a therapist. They may well ask empathetic questions to build the relationship and get context.... it's easy for 30 mins to go by with you telling your painful stories which only a small proportion of are legally relevant to what needs done. Don't pay that amount per minute for an amateur therapist or friend - use them for legal insight.
4. Think about how to synthesise relevant information efficiently. "We have been married for x years in a house owned by me. We gave 2 DC together, ages .... He was verbally abusive for X years, with three police reports for Y. What else do you need to know?" Not "so we met...... then..... "
5. Direct them. E.g: "thanks - I have already reviewed the divorce process online. I don't need to talk through the generalities. But I have two specific questions for you....

Hope this is useful. And wishing you the best of luck!

@BraveGoldie thank you, these are helpful tips!

Dont trust your lawyer. Trust your gut.

I'm ging through the process at the moment and a couple of things to add

1. ask if the solicitor does a fixed fee divorce. This may not work if your exH contests the divorce. You can also request to share the divorce costs with your spouse.
2. childcare arrangements are dealt with separately from the divorce. If you need advice and support for this from your solicitor you need to budget for that
3. If you can't agree on finances and childcare arrangements the first course of action is mediation which is more affordable than a solicitor but depending on your exH may or may not be effective.
4. If going to court over childcare arrangements, the court will decide in favour of what is best for the DC. Who takes care of them now? What is their routine? Would either parent be able to continue to provide the same level of care on their own. If you haven't already, make notes of who normally does what as that might support your case. Be reasonable. The DC have a right to a relationship with both parents. You are looked on more favorably if you show an understanding of this and offer a reasonable amount of contact for both of you including equal quality time (weekends/ holidays) but also equal amount of grunt work.
5. how likely is it that your exH is able to look after the DC full time as he threatens to do? It's a common tactic of abusers and my H used to threaten this all the time but the reality is he doesn't want them more often than every other weekend. Not even extra in the holidays despite me offering 50/50.
6. Take a deep breath. It'll be OK.

@Namele very helpful pointers- thank you. The threats around taking the kids could be hot air - I really hope so but I feel I have to take it seriously. He has family abroad too (as do I), and I am just not 100% certain what his actions will be..

@NoMoreBS

Okay - I do have some experience with applying for non-mols and occupation orders - we help clients of the National Centre for Domestic Violence draft their applications and evidence in support on a pro bono basis (the clients represent themselves in court). I've been involved in about 30 applications. From this, I have learnt:

1. To prevent him taking the children abroad or taking other steps, you can apply for a Prohibited Steps Order. There is information at this link: www.familylawdecisions.co.uk/useful-information/prohibited-steps-order/

1. The chances of getting an occupation order on a without notice basis are extremely low. We've had courts refuse to grant them even when there has been physical violence. You're right that it will make a difference that he has nowhere to go. From what you describe, the court will not make the occupation order without notice. You will therefore be in the position of living together with him knowing you've made the application and before it has been granted (assuming the court is willing to grant it on notice). Getting to the hearing will involve exchanges of evidence and may take a few months. That's not a reason not to do it but just to be aware.

1. Even then court may be unwilling to make an order which requires him to leave the home but they can make orders regulating use of the home if you have sufficient room. Clients I have helped have obtained orders stating which parts of the house the applicant and the respondent can enter and at what times. These are known as zonal orders. However, even these will generally only be made on notice.

1. Courts will grant non-molestation orders on a without notice basis if they believe there is urgent danger and urgent need. They will grant them in response to emotional and psychological abuse - there doesn't have to be physical abuse. The non-molestation order and the supporting evidence would then need to be served on your husband and there would be a further hearing (the return date hearing) at which he could put forward his arguments against the order being made. In my experience, the courts have upheld the non-molestation orders despite the partner's challenges. The above-mentioned zonal order can be included in the non-molestation order (though again, the court may only be willing to include a zonal order at the return date hearing after it has heard the husband).

You may find it helpful to discuss all this with the NCDV: www.ncdv.org.uk/ or Women's Aid.

Good luck.

@Dery thanks, it fills me with dread to have to live with him while this is ongoing but it's good to be realistic. The zonal order is really not an option as we live in a central London 2 bed with 2 children.. sigh

@NoMoreBS - sorry not to have better news on that. Good luck.

Hi dear OP @NoMoreBS ,

I am going through a similar situation, or wanting to start it.
my partner has been verbally abusive and has threatened me with kicking me out of his house.
I would like to know what happened with you and what problems you had? I hope that the process has ended happily for you.

many thanks 🙏🏻

@AliBBK I'm sorry to hear what you are going through. Things have worked out well for me, though it's been a long and painful journey. Please send me a private message if you'd like me to go into detail. Stay strong