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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Marriage and/or me falling apart

21 replies

charliechaplin · 04/12/2007 09:51

I am a regular lurker, some time poster and have changed my name for this as it is more personal than I would normally post. My registration number is just shy of 18,000.

Background history is that I have been with DH 17 years, married for 12 and have one beautiful DD aged 6. Our marriage has been average, I guess. We have had ups and downs, but I love him and we are good solid friends. He has always suffered from mild depression - a glass half empty kind of guy. We found the early years of DDs life very hard and isolated and when she was coming up 3 we moved 250miles south to be nearer my family, as we had no back up nearby where we were. Since then DH has been very unhappy. He has only one male friend in the village who he sees for a beer and a chat. He is a keen musician and hasn't found anyone to play with, so basically misses his friends and his band big time. He is not a club/group type of person and does not drive, so is stuck in the house all day - he works freelance and looks after our DD. He is a fantastic father. He gets out to the gym three times a week which is keeping him going, but has withdrawn socially and emotionally.

He admits he is very unhappy, possibly depressed, but will not do anything about it. He will not see a doctor, consider ADs or counselling, go to Yoga or even get a book out of the library to read up on coping strategies. I have kept it together for as long as I can, holding it together, putting on my happy face and lurching from day to day. But I can't do it any longer. I love him and still fancy him and we had recently got our sex life back on track. But now he is holding me at arms length and I feel like I have to beg for a halfhearted hug. He is happy to accept 'favours' from me, but it is all a one way street with nothing coming back my way. I have told him how I feel, how I can't keep it up much longer and I think I have finally reached the end of my ability to cope. I have stopped pretending I am happy. I have stopped showing affection as I can't bear the way he flinches away from me and I don't know what to do next. We were talking about moving back up north, but I don't really think this will be the answer to us, as although he will be happier and be easier to live with, I don't think it will alter the way he treats me. I don't think it is fair on our DD as she is very settled at school and has lots of friends here. He never wanted children and I don't think he has ever forgiven me for our DD - I gave him an ultimatum that we had a child or split up....I don't know whether I would have carried it out if it had gone the other way though.

I know I should just sit down and talk to him, but it is very hard to stop it dissolving into a blazing row. We are both on the defensive and he seems to feel that his unhappiness trumps all other emotions in the house. I know the way I am at the moment is probably making his depression worse, and feel I should make an effort for his sake, but then I feel that I have been making the effort for 6 years and my feelings matter too. Living with a depressive personality is just so damn draining. It is all a mess and I just needed to get it down, I guess.

It is the party season and family Christmas coming up and I just can't pretend to be happy through it. Thanks for getting this far if you have stuck with me!

OP posts:
3Ddonut · 04/12/2007 09:55

What about a period apart, where you don't split up, you remain a couple but have a bit of space for you both to work out what you want and need from your relationship?

It does sound as though he's very depressed and unfortunatley, refusing to get help is all part of it.

I'm sorry that you're going through this.

charliechaplin · 04/12/2007 10:08

Thanks for answering my rambles. God, the thought of actually splitting up, albeit temporarily, terrifies me and makes me feel absolutely bereft. I don't think I could. I'd like to think he wouldn't either. So I should fight. But how do I fight when DH won't enter negotiations?? It's like trying to plait fog.

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charliechaplin · 04/12/2007 10:14

I think he thinks that moving back 'home' will sort it all. For him, that is the answer, plain and simple. I don't think it is that easy though. And it won't alter the way he deals with me, which has always to hold me at arms length. Being down here has exacerbated that, but the underlying problem is the same.

Reading it back, it isn't much is it? Sit down, talk to him, move house again. Job done. Simple isn't it. I should quit my moaning and be grateful for what I have, I guess. There are many a lot worse off than me....

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RubySlippers · 04/12/2007 10:17

just because other people have "bigger" worries it doesn't mean yours aren't important

could you show him this thread, or write him a letter - it is hard when all communication ends in a row and defensiveness

i think he may well be depressed, but you can;t force him to seek help ... that has to come from him

perhaps you could seek some help, so you have some strategies to deal with it and to help make your way through some of your feelings and responses?

charliechaplin · 04/12/2007 10:30

I have written it all down for him explaining how I feel. He says he will look at counselling/try harder, but it never happens. Deep down, I also think part of him enjoys treating me this way as it gives him some control over his life. He says he hates hurting me, but it dosn't stop him doing it. When he gets very drunk, which isn't that often, he is vindictive and all his anger comes to the surface and it is all directed at me. I think alot of the truth is said when you are drunk as your guard is down. I don't agree with the saying 'it is the drink talking' I think it is the subconcious coming to the fore. He has said some cutting things, but all have an element of truth, such as I have little empathy, which I don't as I have been squashing my feelings down for so long, I don't bother any more.

I have been considering counselling for myself for sometime as I feel that I am just holding it all together by a thread and there is stuff going on that I can't handle anymore, both current and past. Can't really afford it though and if I was going to pay for some, I would rather he benefitted.

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EffiePerine · 04/12/2007 10:34

Can you go and see your GP about talking therapies on the NHS? You can't force your DH into counsellling, but it sounds like you would really benefit from having someone to talk to outside the situation.

charliechaplin · 04/12/2007 10:34

I think when you have a child you re-evaluate your life from the new perspective you find yourself in. There is a huge hormonal upheaval (for teh women) and alot of things appear different. I have known a lot of people who have re-discovered their faith after having kids. I have also known alot who go back over their past and re-assess their lives. I think there is a lot in both our pasts that is effecting the way we live and parent now.

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charliechaplin · 04/12/2007 11:29

Thanks Effie - but there don't see to be any available locally. I have already looked.

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Baffy · 04/12/2007 11:37

If he says he will look at counselling then why don't you take the initiative and book for both of you. Look up Relate. Then you will be spending the money on both of you and you both benefit.

It sounds like it is something you both really need. If only to be able to talk openly without getting defensive and it turning into an argument.

Agree with you 100% that moving back up North is not the answer to your problems. It's the relationship between you both (and his depression) that needs to be addressed. And like you say, that will be the same wherever you live.

Do you feel able to find the strength to look into counselling for you both?

Baffy · 04/12/2007 11:39

Also - have you had a look on some of the depression threads?

Living with someone who is depressed is draining to say the least. You need some support. On those threads I have seen recommendations for support groups and books to read to help you cope. I think that could be a good start for you

charliechaplin · 04/12/2007 11:49

Thanks Baffy - interesting you agree on the moving back up. It has only occured to me recently as we got closer to putting the house on the market and I think that is why I have tipped over the brink and scared me more. I think if I back out now, he will completely lose the plot though.

I do look at the depression threads occasionally, but living with it is often enough for me! I will go and do some research though. Thanks for answering.

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Baffy · 04/12/2007 12:11

Don't be forced into moving. I really don't think that is the right thing for you at the moment. Your dd is settled and you are close to family. That means the world. Especially if things get more difficult before they get better.

Before you are prepared to make that massive sacrifice of moving again, leaving your family, and uprooting dd, I would say that you expect to see the same level of committment back from him. i.e. him take the initiative to see the GP and get treatment for depression. And see a counsellor to address his behaviour towards you.

You can't possibly consider the move until he has started to take those steps. What if you move and it doesn't help his behaviour? What if he continues to treat you the same way? Then on top of that dd would be unsettled and you will have lost your support network. That doesn't bare thinking about.

Depression is an awful awful illness. I have lived with it first hand in my mother and H. But what I would say is to be careful that he is not also using the depression as an 'excuse' to get his own way.
My H did this.
I'd be terrified of rocking the boat in case he lost the plot. But that was exactly how he wanted me to feel. So he could get his own way.

I just want you to be cautious and remember that these things aren't always as black and white as they seem. I think you're instinct that if you move, he will still be the same towards you, is right. I really do. I think that is the main thing you need to address.

If he's lived with mild depression for many years it's time he took steps to sort it out.

cestlavie · 04/12/2007 12:23

How to say this articulately... From what you say, it sounds like he wants to be depressed in the sense that his identity and sense of self is defined by him being depressed/ a victim. I've known a couple of guys like that who almost take pleasure in being if not depressed, then certainly having a very negative view on life, finding a bleak outlook whatever the situation and feeling like the victim in any situation. As you say, it gives him a level of control over his life.

It sounds like moving down south and becoming isolated has enabled him to feel even more like this - "DW made me move down here even though she knew I'd hate it. Now I have no friends and no life and I do hate it and it's her fault". Thinking like this not only not only gives him his identity but also absolves him from (a) taking any personal blame for the situation and (b) feeling any responsibility for improving the situation. "DW has made me miserable, it's her fault, why should I have to make it better?". I exaggerate what's he thinking, but conceptually it may be along those lines.

As other posters have said, my guess is that moving up north won't be the answer in itself. Let's say you do decide to move back - from what you say about him, it sounds likely he'll find it negative in some way/ not as good as hoped and, given his current state of mind, blame you or at least not take any responsibility for this. That's not to say you absolutely shouldn't do it, just that it probably won't make much difference in itself.

Equally though, getting him to go for any sort of counselling will be very hard. Firstly, most guys are very reluctant to do that sort of thing (and I speak as a guy!) secondly, he probably doesn't view it as his responsibility to do so and thirdly because he enjoys being the victim. That makes it pretty tough to help him.

Just from an outside perspective, for starters what he needs to do is take some sort of responsibility for his life rather than wallowing in a victim complex. This could be as little as going out to the pub or gym more often, or something as trite as joining some sort of social group or finding a new hobby, but something that he chooses to do rather than you push him into. You can help as much as you feel able, I guess, but not choose, e.g. maybe find local band auditions, rehearsal rooms etc. and give him the information. Ideally, he needs to go to counselling or at least speak with his GP but it'll be tough to achieve it. Even if you agree a trade (e.g. you move up north, he gets treatment) it's very easy to renege on it later.

More importantly therefore, he needs to understand that he needs to do it to help/ save your relationship - that doing nothing is not an option for him, otherwise he'll probably do exactly that. How to do this it pretty tough, but you should make clear to him how you are feeling, that you also are feeling depressed and that you are planning to do something about this because you're finding it a struggle to live like this. Ask him where you think you are as individuals, as a couple, in one year, five years, ten years. Tell him what you're willing to do whatever you need to save/ help your relationship but that you both need to do it.

NONE of this, by the way, it to play down the possibility of depression or how, if he is depressed, he needs treatment (one of my closest friends has/had clinical depression and it can be absolutely devastating). As Baffy says though, you need to be careful that he's not using the 'depression' as a negotiating tool. As it is, whether it's depression or not, it doesn't make an awful lot of difference if he's absolutely unwilling to get it diagnosed or treatment.

trulymadlydeeply · 04/12/2007 12:36

You can go to Relate as half of a couple and you pay only what you can afford. When I went - because I was in a relationship similar to yours - the counsellor was not surprised to see me alone. She helped me find some energy to be postive (it was all sapped by the situation) and eventually he came too.

It's such hard work, living with depression!

Good luck!
xx

Baffy · 04/12/2007 13:01

excellent post cestlavie

charliechaplin · 04/12/2007 13:22

Thanks Cestlavie & Baffy - I understand where you are coming from, but I do think it requires a level of pre-meditation and cunning about the situation that he just does not have the energy for. He dislikes himself enough as it is to be manipulative on top of it all. He desperately wants to be happy again and loves a laugh and good conversation. He is not wallowing in it, but neither is he doing much to help himself either...

I have asked him to do something to help himself before we do anything else regarding the move. I agree with everything you said on that count and think it is very important before we go any further. If we went back up north we would move back into a pre-existing circle of friends and he would have a band to play in - they are keeping a seat warm for him...

Cestlavie - he has spent the last 2.5 years looking for a band, or someone to play with. We are in a small village and he dosn't drive and there is NOTHING nearby. We have looked, desperately, believe me. He goes to the gym three times a week and runs. He gets out for a walk when the weather is good. I have suggested clubs, but they are ot his thing and would make him very uncomfortable and probably do more harm than good. He is becoming very socially withdrawn. He has met one chap with whom he has clicked and they go out for a drink whenever once or twice a month. But that is it. We have gone through the kids friends husbands but they are all on a completely different wavelength. I don't see how any of that side of things will change unless we DO move away from here.

OP posts:
charliechaplin · 04/12/2007 13:24

And trulymadlydeeply - I will look into Relate. How long did it take for your DH to come around??

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charliechaplin · 04/12/2007 13:26

Also, it was a joint decision that we came down here. We were both struggling to cope with the early years of parenthood and it made sense to us both.

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cestlavie · 04/12/2007 14:20

Sure. I guess my post was not meant to suggest that he's being deliberately manipulative or cunning but more that being a victim in some ways might just suit him as it means he doesn't feel the need to do anything to improve his situation.

You say he 'desperately' wants to be happy again but if he really did, wouldn't he be doing something about it? Perhaps I'm being stupid here, but it just seems to me that if someone wanted 'desperately' to be happy again then they would at least be willing get a book out a library.

Equally you say he's really struggling socially where you live, but back up north he had a circle of friends and a social life. I take it from this that he's able to get on with people generally, have friendships, go out and do things. Just wondering aloud, but how hard do you think he has really tried to make friends and build a life down where you live now? Have you been able to make new friends? Do you think he has tried to build a new life down here?

I'm also absolutely not saying that you dragged him down south either by the way. It was more saying if he is being so negative, that may be the way he views it himself because it's easier than accepting he's also responsible for the choice to move and his current state of unhappiness (most people find it easier to blame others than themselves).

charliechaplin · 05/12/2007 13:22

Thanks everyone for your messages. My withdrawal seems to have prompted a long hard look at himself and although it is only talk at the moment, he has agreed that he has got himself into a HUGE downward negative spiral and he needs to address the way he thinks and approaches life and break the bad mental habits that colour everything he does. He has also agreed to go to the doctors/look at counselling, although I think this actually terrifies him. He is also coming to terms with turning 50 and the fact that a large proportion of his life has gone by without him noticing and/or feeling he has lived it well.

The situation down here will not necessarily improve regarding friends. The chap he HAS clicked with has been here 20 years and not met anyone like my DH. He used to go to the pub on his own, so it is not for want of looking, it is for want of like-minded people that my DH is lonely. I already had a friend down here and have friends back where we were, my job is transferable, my family are a minimum of an hours drive from here, so it dosn't really make much difference where I live TBH. I ave problems with many asects of village life, and yearn for the anonymity of city life someties... However, we are not going to rush into putting the house on the market, but try to work through getting him (and us) into a better frame of mind before making that decision. Moving here was made at a time of great stress and we don't want to repeat the same mistake again. Here's to the future!

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Baffy · 06/12/2007 09:51

That's great news charliechaplin, you're sounding so much more positive already.

Wishing you the best of luck. Sounds like you're on the right track xx

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