Please help me digest this (trigger warning)

[Confusedbear91]

Sorry I'm not sure if this thread needs a warning on it as it involves sexual abuse so don't want anyone reading it who would be uncomfortable with that!

I found out recently that DH was abused by a family member (not parent if that makes any difference). He won't go into details but I don't think it involves actual rape, just other stuff. He would have been about 6. He seems okay with it all, and isn't too upset actually, which I'm surprised by. It's all just come out to the rest of his family, which has obviously shocked everyone. I think they're going to try and work through it as DH has said he has forgiven them and doesn't necessarily want to fall out over it. I want to support him, but I don't know if I can look at this family member the same way ever again. Is that an overreaction if everyone else is moving on? I don't want them around my kids, and tbh don't even want their kids around mine either, but I feel worried I'm messing the whole family up if I insist on this. I just don't feel comfortable anymore, and can't trust this person. Anyone else been in a similar situation? Feeling pretty shocked at the moment and not sure how I should be feeling.

I wouldn't push him to be more angry, upset- why would you ? I think it is amazing that he is not very upset by this, it so often ruins people lives forever. I'm not sure why anyone would want that for him. Also I would NOT go to the police behind his back as some posters have suggested
If she was 13 that would change things for me, that is still what I would consider a child

Do you think there's more to this? Children who abuse are statistically likely to have been abused themselves.

I don't want him to be upset @workshy44, I guess...I want him to understand that it's something worth getting angry about as I want him to put himself first if that makes sense? I'm trying to be supportive of him and will stop talking about it if that's what he wants, but I think he also deserves for them to take responsibility, as that might stop him doing that for her. Definitely not going to the police, that's not my decision. Just going to keep my distance from now on, whatever the rest of the family decide. Obviously I include my kids in that, they won't be going anywhere near at all!

Not from the parents @Sleepinghyena, definitely not (as far as you can say that, obviously). Lots of mental issues though, that need a professional to unpick them as I wouldn't even know where to start.

I really would be lead by him on this personally. I can't imagine how difficult this is for you but this is something that happened to him, its up to him how he decides to deal with it. Sounds like he is doing a pretty good job. Not sure how getting angry/upset now will help him.

@Confusedbear91

Does it make a difference if this person was a teenager at the time? I still think they were old enough to take responsibility for their actions. I don't know exactly how the rest of the family feel as I haven't spoken to them, so not sure what will happen now. I just feel sick at the thought of this person, who up until now I've got on really well with.

13 or 19??

I think 13 @SnatchCassidy.

You're right @workshy44, I've been letting my feelings take over, I'll take a step back. I guess mumsnet is good for having space to vent as I think I need to regulate my thoughts before talking to him!

@Confusedbear91 I think it would be hard for anyone not to let their feelings take over at something like this. It’s a real shock. Vent away on mnet

I was "sexually abused" by my cousin when I was 8/9 and he was 14/15. No one on the family knows but it did screw me up for a a long time.

The thing that I struggled the most with was that I didn't feel there was a child/victim/innocent and an adult/abuser/evil, there were just two kids that we're both a bit fucked up. My cousin had a pretty terrible upbringing, he had to be treated for heroin withdrawal when he was born and things didn't improve too much from there.

I cannot forget the look of horror on his face the first time I cried in front of him and said "please don't" - he looked shocked and said "oh my god, I'm so sorry", and nothing ever happened again. I honestly don't think he fully realised that he was hurting me until then.

When I eventually tried to seek mental health help in my late twenties, one of the barriers was being told that the police would be informed if a disclosed any child abuse. When I dared to broach the subject with a therapist, they literally stopped me talking and said before I went any further, they had to warn me about potential police involvement. I therefore didn't feel able to talk about it. I didn't want to ruin another person's life for a mistake they made as a teenager, but the threat of the police being informed meant I could never be honest.

I did eventually see a psychologist who agreed that the police didn't need to be informed if I didn't give any identifying details and was happy that no other children were at risk (which I was - I had literally spent years torturing myself going over what ifs about this, studying other girls in my family and wondering if anything ever happened to them etc - if I thought for a second that anyone else was inn danger then I would have spoken up).

So I definitely wouldn't call the police behind his back, I think it's the worst possible thing you can do. When I was in that position I already felt shame for what had happened, it made me feel even more guilty to be accused of putting others at risk by not going to the police. Your partner knows the circumstances better than you or anyone else who was there and should be allowed to make his own decision on this.

I'd also try and take his lead as much as you can and not invalidate his feelings, it might discourage him from feeling able to open up. I don't think it helps to be told that things are black and white if you really only see grey. He's had years to decide on a view of the situation which might be now be quite fixed in his head, so challenging that very abruptly could be difficult for him.

Ultimately, he's the one who was there, who knows the situation and the details, so I think his views (no matter how quietly expressed) should be listened to and respected above all else). Support him, encourage him, whatever, but please try not to make him feel wrong in some way for the way that he feels/doesn't feel.

Anyone else who wasn't there*

Hoping I can revive this thread as there's been talks in the family and I still feel a bit lost if I'm honest and could do with some objective input!

So DH's dad talked to the family member. They admitted everything and said they did it because it happened to them - friend's dad apparently. Has given a younger age than DH remembers, so is either lying or cannot remember. DH's dad has told her to apologise, but to prepare for the fact that DH is pretty much done with her, as am I, and I will not be letting my kids near her.

All good, but if I'm honest I feel conflicted about his parents potentially moving on from this and having a relationship with her. I know it's none of my business but I get on with them very well, and is it okay for me to feel weird about them moving on from this? What, if anyone's experienced this, happened in other families? I kind of feel like I want to run away from them all, and that if they're potentially excusing her behaviour by saying that she was young and that she 'needs help, I don't want to be around that, even indirectly.

For people who have known someone to do this as a child/teenager, did they go on to get help? Is it something they did again? How can they be trusted around their own children?

I should say that DH has told his parents that he's okay with them having a relationship with her, so I guess this is just me who feels weird about the whole situation! I kind of want someone else to agree that this is a horrible situation and not something that can be brushed over as at the moment I'm the odd one out

@Confusedbear91

Hoping I can revive this thread as there's been talks in the family and I still feel a bit lost if I'm honest and could do with some objective input!

So DH's dad talked to the family member. They admitted everything and said they did it because it happened to them - friend's dad apparently. Has given a younger age than DH remembers, so is either lying or cannot remember. DH's dad has told her to apologise, but to prepare for the fact that DH is pretty much done with her, as am I, and I will not be letting my kids near her.

All good, but if I'm honest I feel conflicted about his parents potentially moving on from this and having a relationship with her. I know it's none of my business but I get on with them very well, and is it okay for me to feel weird about them moving on from this? What, if anyone's experienced this, happened in other families? I kind of feel like I want to run away from them all, and that if they're potentially excusing her behaviour by saying that she was young and that she 'needs help, I don't want to be around that, even indirectly.

For people who have known someone to do this as a child/teenager, did they go on to get help? Is it something they did again? How can they be trusted around their own children?

You can't seriously blame a 13 year old girl for showing a typical sign of having been sexually abused? Poor mental health and difficult behaviours in adulthood is another symptom of CSA.

Unless she has shown an interest in children as an adult?

This is a really sad situation all round. But really very common for CSA victims to experiment with other children, its how it's often discovered. These kids are usually trying to make sense of it or don't understand the impact because their abuser pretends it's ok/normal/nice to do those things. This is what sexualised behaviours are. This is why we hate sexual abusers for screwing kids up.

She's not a monster.

By all means support your DHs decision to have nothing to do with her but understand their parents have to deal with knowing both their children were abused. They can't punish her for it.

Thanks for the reply @PleaseGoDontGoAgain. I guess I know absolutely nothing about it, having never come into contact with anyone who's spoken about sexual abuse during childhood before. I can't understand the thinking behind doing it to someone else when it's been done to you. I also don't trust her as her memory is so bad in general; she has forgotten or misremembered things that I've been there for, so I know she's very unreliable which makes me wary of her. I know she knew it was wrong as she told DH not to tell anyone as they would both go to prison.

I don't want to blame or think badly of her parents as I know they are in a difficult situation and their relationship with her is nothing to do with me at all. I guess mumsnet is a good place to vent these feelings as I don't know anyone I could talk to about this in real life!

@Confusedbear91

I think they were around 13. They were the one who brought it up to the family, which has made me angry for DH as it's surely his experience to share should he choose, rather than the abuser being able to choose. From what I've heard it's like they blame DH and their parents for not stopping them. Lots of excuses but I've got absolutely no sympathy for them at all. Should DH be more angry or is it okay for him to have let it go?

Her parents didn't stop those things happening so she's right to hold them accountable. She was 12/13 at the time she abused her DB and likely still feels ashamed, guilty, dirty for what's happened.

It's natural she would be angry at being abused and having no one notice even when she became abusive to her younger brother. It's normal that she blames her parents for that.

Her abuser is responsible for this cycle of abuse. The adult abuser is the only one who had the ability to make adult choices in this.

Victims of abuse tend not to be nice delicate things with a tear in one eye, they are quite often a mess and may have damaged others with their actions/words The longer it was a secret the worse the mess is.

Child abuse fucks whole families up, this is why. Stop wanting people angry, thats the least useful emotion here.

I know she knew it was wrong as she told DH not to tell anyone as they would both go to prison

But you know that is incorrect. They don't imprison 12/13 year old girls for showing sexualised behaviour toward a younger sibling, they DO imprison adults for abusing kids/pre-teens and teens. They do not imprison victims of sexual abuse as they have done nothing wrong.

She did not fully understand the rights and wrongs of it. She just thought she did.

The memory issues are another really common adult sign of childhood trauma/abuse. She needs help from professionals.

If your DH is able to move on, let him. His sister is nowhere near that luxury.

A really unpleasant truth is that some sexual activity feels meh, ok and sometimes nice. If sexual abuse doesn't 'hurt' and a trusted adult introduced you to it, that's confusing.

Many don't realise it's wrong until they are older. Others know it's wrong at the time but don't realise HOW or WHY it's wrong until later.

She may have seen it as something 'naughty' but harmless at the same time.

It is all a headfuck, it's normal to take a while to make sense of what you feel.

Let your DH lead your responses to it but leave them to deal with the sister as she is not your responsibility and she is likely pretty fucked up.

OP,

You are in a very difficult situation especially as you have had zero experience of it.

@PleaseGoDontGoAgain is wise here.

Please try and separate your general feelings for your sister in law with what she had done.

It sounds to me as if there are two victims here, her as much as your husband.

Who is this friend of your FIL's who abused her?

What talk is there of that?

She was a child and her parents did fail to protect her.

The fact that she has MH issues implies that she has suffered and that she has a child a similar age to the age she was implies she has been triggered, as is often the case.

Of course you are devastated at hearing this, I get that.

But some counselling for both you and your husband might be wise, but also some compassion if possible for the little girl she was being abused by a friend of her father's.

Where the hell is her abuser now?

Keep posting.

I think it was her friend's dad, rather than her dad's friend. I believe they went to the police but nothing happened. They took her to counselling but not sure for how long or how exactly that went. She doesn't remember any of that though, and is saying they did nothing when she told them. It scares me I guess to think that either they knew what was happening to DH, or that they had no clue at all - it makes me worry about the same happening in my house and me not having a clue at all; is this even possible?

Oh I see.

Even worse, violated by her friends dad.
How awful.

Would you speak to your in laws yourself to find out what happened.

Unfortunately I have known a few people that were have experience of this

One friend it was her older brother who abused her two sisters.
They waited for both parents to die before going to the police and reporting him.

Their parents were the most loving people and adored their children and each other and they simply couldn't bring this grief to their door.

His wife and children were totally devastated and he was given 2 years in prison as it has occurred up to when he was 19.
Hard to believe the parents didn't know, but neither did my friend either.
Total devastation all round and a lot of sympathy for him as he was a pillar of the community, with a big job and sure it all happened 30 years ago🙄.

My other friend was an only child and it was her father's bachelor friend.
It went on for several years until she told him she was telling mummy and he never went near her again.
She too had wonderful parents and never told them but did do intensive therapy in her 30's and her therapist advised her to tell her friends as her MH was suffering.

IMO there is and has been so much of this around that I have lost count of all the stories I have been told.

With my own children, when they were very small and in the bath I always was very respectful of washing them and always asked could mummy wash their private bits and stressed that they were private and that no one should ever touch them without permission and that they should always come to mum and dad if anyone did.

They were six before they went on playdates and I knew the people's homes they were going to.

You can only do your best, and hope for it too.

I believe abusers look just like everyone else!

Don't rush into feeling you have to know all the answers, this is a really huge shoch to you.
It will take quite a while to get your head around it, if ever!

Keep posting.
Don't allow the stress to bubble up in you.

OP, this situation is horrible and sad and I would be devastated in your shoes. I am a total stranger so can offer you little in the way of reassurance probably, but all of your replies are striking me as really authentic and empathic. You are right to want to protect your children and your partner. Regardless of the age of your husband's abuser, the abuse happened, and research has shown that children tend to disassociate from their own feelings when they are being abused as a survival technique as it is too overwhelming to take in. At the moment your husband may be distancing himself (probably not consciously) and that is completely ok. He may want to delve into this stuff at some point, he may not, he may legitimately be completely fine with it, who knows. Only he knows.

The other thing that is really striking me is the minimisation of the abuse by your partner's parents. That is hideous and I would also be furious at that. What is going on there? This is their child. If that was my 6 year old child I would be a ferocious mess right now. Again, who knows where their heads are at with that but trust your own feelings and instincts. Of course their is history for why this girl committed the abuse and there needs to be space for that, but there must also be space for the abused child (your husband) who is insisting that 'it his responsibility to not upset them'. He has no such responsibility. He had the right to expect protection from abuse and he didn't get it. My impression is that you currently carrying the rage that he can't get in touch with. I wish you all the best of luck.

It's definitely made me more worried about everyone @billy1966, and I will definitely make sure my daughters feel comfortable with consent etc. Sleepovers are probably off unless I know the parents really well - I have anxiety as it is and this has exacerbated it greatly!

@coffeeisthebest I'm glad my husband seems okay at the moment, and I think I'm going to drop the subject with him unless he brings it up - I don't want to make him feel emotions he's not ready for if that makes sense! I kind of want a bit of distance from his parents now - I don't feel like I want any involvement with the family at the moment. On a selfish level, I feel sad as my dad was physically abusive to my mum and I felt like I'd found a nice normal family to be part of! Now I feel like no family is normal and neither side is safe for my kids to be around without me there

Oh that totally makes sense, I'm sorry you didn't find the normal family you were looking for either. That must hurt. There's definitely a need for your kids to feel your protection and you and your husband can build the 'normal' family you were looking for.

Sadly @Confusedbear91 it is possible that a parent would have no idea, sexual abuse of a child is horrific but it looks normal to those seeing the child/abuser relationship at the time.

Even the grooming involved is 'normal' looking and feels nice to the child, choccies, gifts are an obvious thing to watch for but the compliments, attention, manipulating the childs understanding and even encouraging the child to gripe about their parents are so damn subtle it would be weird to tell mum about such banality.

They can make it seem like a secret naughty 'game' so that when/if the child does start realising they're not ok with it, it's too awkward to tell Mum because they went along with it, knowing it was somehow naughty and enjoyed parts of it.

Even the level of embarrassment involved in naming the body parts and describing the acts involved to your parent is crippling enough to stop a child telling.

There are so many reasons that a child will never tell.
It is all such a headfuck that many people just paper the cracks with a bit of therapy but a trigger such as a child's age can cause the whole thing to resurface and overwhelm the (now) adult victim
It really sounds like this is what's gone on.

Keep your DH well out of the way as it's likely to get much uglier

.

OP,

Anything that I have heard of has involved a couple of friends mid 50's to early 60's.

These are women that I know 25 years.

Thank goodness none of childhood friends had issues, bar an over familiar husband of a family my pal babysat.🙄

She told her dad and he was straight over the following day and she never babysat again for them, and nor did any of her friends.

I haven't heard of anything in my circle for years, but historically it was an issue all through society.

For many, many people, this never touches their life, not unlike alcoholism or domestic violence.

But the sad fact is, no part of society is exempt.

Taking a break from the family sounds good.

You sound like a great woman.