Historic abuse and debt - TW

[CrashingAgain]

Name changed due to the horror of this situation.

I just found out my poor husband was abused for many years as a child by his uncle, who is now dead. He told my DH that if DH stopped the abuse, he would move on to his younger brother. DH found out last year that the uncle had abused his brother anyway. This left DH completely broken as he thought he had spared his brother by going through the horror himself.

I wasn’t aware of this until today when I opened a strange looking letter and found that DH has accrued credit card charges. I was very confused as we had a long discussion about debt last year and DH had confessed to me that he had £20k debt from before we met six years ago. I paid half of it off with savings and we got a new mortgage with DH as the sole earner (I had a nervous breakdown last year due to bullying at work and resigned after a period of sick leave). I thought we had about £8k debt plus the mortgage now, which DH was managing.

DH has now sent me a rambling text telling me about the abuse and that he was actually £50k in debt and couldn’t face telling me. He said he was scared of losing me and our child, and he’s spent his whole life lying and dissembling because of the abuse. He said he couldn’t find the courage to tell me about the abuse and the debt, and now it’s all come out. He’s beside himself and we’re both totally heartbroken about the situation.

I’ve just texted him to ask the extent of the debt, I feel like I’m paralysed until I know if we’re going to lose our house. He said he’s been on a downward spiral since finding out about his brother so god knows what the actual figure is now.

Debt aside this is just such a terrible situation. I feel so heartbroken for DH, in shock really, and heartbroken and in shock for me, terrified for the future... just everything really.

Don’t know what advice I’m looking for.. I love my husband dearly and he is honestly a wonderful husband and father to our child. I know it doesn’t sound like it with the secret debt but I can’t imagine the pain he must be in from years of abuse. I just feel so much sorrow for our little family and what’s happened.

Thanks for reading and any advice.

All sounds pretty awful - clearly a big shock to you, and he's been bottling everything up for years by the sound of it. He might be using the abuse as an excuse for his gambling problem (who knows if that really is behind it or not). But the most important thing from here is that he wants to change/sort it all out. Think you said he's been paying off the debt by himself for the last year, so that sounds very positive that he's got a handle of the cause of the problem (don't be surprised if he has a relapse though). You definitely need to insist on total financial transparency between yourselves from now on - as a married couple everything is joint and several, even if you keep your bank accounts separate.

As for your financial situation, it doesn't sound that catastrophic as you (thought you) were in a stable financial position, guess he's a decent salary, and you have equity in your home. I'd use the majority of your savings to reduce the debt asap, just keeping a modest amount as a rainy day fund. Consolidate the rest into the lowest interest loan you can get (extend the mortgage if at all possible).

Be very wary of trying to negotiate a settlement with the lenders. Firstly, they will know exactly what your personal financial situation is (from your credit profiles), so they'll know you have savings etc, and they won't be very amenable to negotiating a lower settlement. It's also (presumably), not 'bad' debt at this stage, minimum repayments being met? They rarely do a settlement deal with people until the debt goes bad and it begins to look like they've got little hope of recovering the full amount. But worst of all, if you do do a deal and settle for less than the total amount owed, they'll whack a ruddy great black mark on your credit profile, and it'll stay there for 6 years. It'll make any kind of finance (from a new mobile phone contract to remortgaging the house) an absolute nightmare to get approved. It could cost you more than you'll save, in terms of higher mortgage interest rates, fees etc.

Tread carefully, and definitely get yourself on Money Saving Expert forums for advice before you commit to anything financially.

You're not being selfish or cowardly! You are thinking of your entire family, and you are tackling this head on. and its OK to be furious that you've worked and saved for decades, while he's been gambling.

Your DH needs expert help for both issues, the abuse and the gambling - and he must get proper, professional help, its not optional because otherwise he's going to drag you and the kids down with him.

You have two separate problems, but from the same source. Of course your poor husband needs help. And from experience it is much better and easier to speak to someone you don't know. But sadly, there's no certainty of how it will go or how he'll handle it. And he will be a long time in dealing with it.
None of this should make you for one minute take your eye off the financial side. There is no guarantee that his spending will stop or that it won't reignite as sensitive topics are raised during his counseling. Yes, debt can be tackled and people do get themselves out of bad situations. But you don't want more to be racking up more debt so you really need to be able to see what is being spent. I'd like to say that you must trust him but I think most of us would find that pretty hard in the circumstances. He has damaged your trust in him by lying and it sounds like he is aware of that. But I don't think I personally could give him a straightforward pass because of the abuse he suffered. He has inflicted damage on you too.

Your relationship is not what you'd thought so you'll have a bit of grieving over that and I think you're entitled to be angry, too, for the situation he's put you in. You'll feel what you'll feel but don't add guilt in as well.

And it's OK him saying that you mustn't tell anyone. I understand he doesn't want anyone to know about his abuse, that's personal and I wouldn't reveal it, but you are entitled to speak to people you trust about your finances. Do not get yourself into a situation where you can only talk to him about things and your mental health is damaged as you have no one to work through your feelings with.

I’m no financial expert but it sounds to me from your posts that having some savings is very important to you. So it might be better for you in emotional terms to use just some of the savings to go towards paying some of the debt to reduce it and dealing with the rest through regular payments or an additional mortgage rather than putting all your savings towards paying the debt, although that is probably the better way forward financially.
Yes to taking control of your finances. He has offered this and I would certainly do it, I do most of it already anyway.
And yes to both of you getting external professional support as well as supporting others.
Money helps to give us security and yes, it is good to have savings for the future but some families have to cope with big unexpected expenses and plans need to be revised. Although I know it is not remotely comparable to what you are going through, we had to get work done on and in the house which we were not expecting which amounted to over £20k which we had not budgeted for and which caused a shock and stress at the time but we had to come to terms with it as there was no way to avoid it.
Take some advice and think what matters to you more- clearing the debt most efficiently or keeping some savings for your DC etc and then start paying it down whichever way you decide.
I cannot imagine how awful this is for you and your DH but I hope that getting professional support will help 💐

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Feeling even worse today, I think the shock is wearing off and the enormity of the situation is hitting me. The money has definitely taken a back seat to the issue of the abuse in my head right now, and DH is still away until tonight so there’s not a lot I can do about it right now. I did have a fleeting thought ‘oh we’re poor now’ when I went to the shop to pick up a few things this morning. @Maray1967 you’re correct, having savings means a lot to me as I didn’t have a lot of disposable income or material goods for a long time, and my mental health is not hugely robust, so not having to worry about money at least has become a big thing to me.

I think if we can hang on to £10k I’ll just feel less anxious, especially as I don’t think any of the debts are urgent right now. All the savings and equity is ‘mine’, so I don’t think I’m doing the wrong thing in letting DH take the responsibility of paying things off monthly. Our money is kind of joint and kind of separate, we never hoard from one another and hand money over easily if one of us if short, but I’m the space of two years I’ll have thrown over £20k at DH’s debts and I think he needs to take responsibility for the rest. Of course we’ll have total transparency from here on in (if such a thing can be managed? I don’t know.)

The rest of it is horrific and I just keep breaking down in tears. I feel like our whole marriage is based on lies and I’m terrified it will all come crashing down as we both struggle to cope with this. I tried so hard to be strong on the phone yesterday and I’ll continue to try, but I feel lost and absolutely full of sorrow for my poor DH, our DC, me. I understand why he had to lie to me and there’s no blame in my heart, but the fact is I don’t know huge parts of him and he may still be hiding things. I’m absolutely terrified for us. I thought we were mostly happy and settled and that feeling has just gone in an instant.

Plus my parents are coming to stay today and I can’t put them off, they’re literally on their way here and will be here in an hour or so. It’s been arranged for months and they’ve had to book a dog sitter etc so I just can’t let them down. They’re going to know something is up as soon as they see my face, and I’m going to have to come up a story. I wish I could tell them the truth, but it would be such a betrayal. Just feel like I’m going mad here.

If it helps, remember that's he's supported you financially through you quitting your job and now working part time as a free lancer.

@user1471457751 that is true, and I’m not saying I won’t contribute to this debt. DH is an incredibly hard worker and works 50hr weeks in a small business to make sure it’s a success and he can provide for us. I’m happy to help if it brings him back away from the ledge, but I can’t pretend I want to shoulder 42k of debt that I didn’t create. Plus I simply don’t have that much money!

I’ve spoken to him today now and he said he’s feeling a bit better and like a weight has been lifted, which is an incredible relief to me as yesterday he sounded completely broken. I didn’t ask him to say this or push him in to it, in fact I said he might not feel better for a long time yet, but he assured me he’s turned a small corner in finally confiding in me and is feeling more positive about his recovery.

I hope you cope ok when your parents are with you. Pleased to read that your DH is feeling better. Once your parents have gone you’ll be able to talk about how to tackle the debt. I think a good option would be to keep some savings back so you don’t feel that it’s all gone.

I wish I could give you a huge hug, things sound so difficult for you.

I hope the day with your parents go as well as could be expected. You can still tell them how you feel I.e that you are tired, not sleeping, finding things difficult etc. I know people tend to ask why but it's perfectly ok to say I'm sorry I can't talk about it, or I'm not sure exactly, or don't know but it would be really helpful if you could do X,y or z (this could be anything i.e cooking, having a big hug, distracting you, going home earlier than planned etc).

One of the benefits of therapy is containment. At the moment everything is everywhere and you have very little space to direct all these feelings. I really recommend journalling if you have somewhere safe to keep it. The act of speaking words is so powerful and writing can have a similar effect. It also helps with containment because you can close the book and put it to one side as a symbolic act. If you feel like your brain is swirling that's the best time to write.

What do you feel about your husband that has been unchanged by this revelation? Is he still loving, still loyal, still terrible at jokes or great at DIY, still a hard worker etc.

Thanks once again for the messages of support.

I ended up telling my parents that we have some unexpected debt from the past and my DH has just let me know, hence the giant red tear-stained face and piggy eyes. They know he had problems in the past and that he’s a very hard worker and good husband/father, so they were sympathetic and fairly non-judgemental. I also said DH is having trouble coping with a few things at the moment and I’m worried about him. Maybe I shouldn’t have said anything but as soon as I let them know everything wasn’t hunky dory I felt a weight lift off my shoulders, and it’s got me back on track a little bit. I didn’t betray anything about his situation and I told him what I’d done and he was fine with it, as I knew he would be. I know what he wants me to stay quiet about, and it’s the same reason all these poor abused men walk around in silence, the shame and stigma of male on male abuse is just too much to bear. I hate being complicit in maintaining that silence but obviously I will do whatever makes him feel more comfortable. We had an ok chat tonight and he’s agreed to counselling, which is brilliant as I thought he might clam up again or be happy to make me his only confidante.

@Colourmeclear that’s some great advice, thanks. I’m kind of using this thread to journal and it’s really helping. I’m someone who has to get their thoughts out or I’ll go mad with ruminating! Especially as I spend a lot of time alone in the house now, or with just DC.

There is so much about DH that I still love and remains unchanged I’m sure, but because we’ve only had a couple of teary conversations and a few dozen texts since I found out about the abuse, it’s hard to work out what will be there in the weeks and months to come. I’ve made the odd flippant remark in text and immediately felt like I’m not giving the situation enough levity, but usually our conversations would be peppered with jokes and silliness and it feels unnatural to just speak tersely or with pure sadness. I’m not a sociopath, I’ve made no jokes about the abuse, just stuff like we’ll be holidaying in Skegness for the next decade or if he drops a penny in the gutter I want to know about it. Maybe it’s my failing that I can’t help trying to inject some lightness in to a dark situation, I don’t know. I don’t think I’ve been inappropriate but what’s appropriate in this fucked up situation eh.

Anyway went off on a bit of a tangent there. That’s why journals are better - no one is forced to read your private ramblings! My husband is absolutely my best friend, we laugh together, live easily together, can be fun together or totally boring together watching Escape to the Country or playing Yahtzee on the iPad, we love having family days out and exploring new places. He is an extraordinary man who despite his terrible childhood and leaving school with almost no qualifications, has achieved both a bachelors and a masters as a mature student and is now a company director, just by pure grit and determination. He is so kind and loving and never raises his voice or runs out of patience with me or DC. I don’t feel like any of that will change, and that makes me feel a lot better, thanks x

It's terrible for you all but at least it is now in the open and the problems can be tackled. There is excellent councelling out there for victims of childhood abuse and your DH will surely benefit from signing up for some sessions. Please contact StepChange charity. They are excellent and will give you great, professional advice on how to manage and pay off the debt. Stay strong. Life hasn't turned out how you'd hoped but keep your sense of humour to help lighten these dark times and hopefully, with lots of professional help, you will find a way forward.

It sounds as if you accept that it's an absolute causal fact that the debts were caused by the abuse, and as the abuse wasn't his fault, then the debts aren't either, so you're not allowed to be angry with him.

I ran up debts at one point in my life, and I don't really know why. I wasn't abused. I can imagine that if I had been abused I would absolutely believe it was that.

It's good that he's agreed to counselling, but is this coming from him, or is it driven by you? He needs to be proactive about helping himself as well.

And what about the gambling side of it?

It shouldn't be left unaddressed, it needs to be included in moves forward.

Make an appointment with a citizens advice debt expert ASAP. There may be a way to do a trust deed & keep your house etc. Or at the very least they will
Be able to guide you through this awful situation from a practical point.

As for the emotional stuff, first of all counselling for him & couples counselling. It is not unreasonable for you to take financial control.
Sending love OP
This is awful for you both

Feeling a bit sick with it all this morning. I know this is terrible but I keep thinking about what this means for DH and I in the future, particularly in regard to sex. We’ve had an almost sexless marriage since DC was born four years ago, he did try with me a few times but I brushed him off, DC was a terrible sleeper for the first three years and I had PND for at least the first year too. I was hoping we could get it back on track but then we both had multiple health problems, he works away 3/4 nights a week and then he was dealt this terrible blow about his brother this time last year. Now I think of it, it was around that time he stopped kissing me on the lips or touching me in a intimate way (kissing neck from behind while washing up for example, or giving my bottom a little smack, the usual couple stuff). He’s now told me that he has been suicidal since finding out about his brother, so I’m not surprised he’s not feeling sexy, but I just worry that this will now be the path our marriage takes forever.

And will I ever feel like it’s ok to be intimate with him again? What if I trigger him, or even feel wrong myself doing it? God this is so awful.

@category12 he seems to be totally on board with the counselling, I said to him that I can’t be his only outlet and he readily agreed and said he doesn’t want that for me either. But he’s in the hysterical bonding phase I think, he’s so relieved I’m not leaving him that he’s agreeing to everything.

Also it turns out the majority of the debt was accrued long before we met. He said he can be fine for ages and working it off and then he’ll have a low patch mentally where he goes totally nihilistic, drinking and gambling all his money away again. He said that’s only happened once since we met and it was the few months after he found out about his brother, and he’s since reined it in again since last Christmas. So I’m cautiously hopeful that we can get this under control and he said he can now come to me when he’s feeling low rather than hide it and behave recklessly in secret. God this is so awful. If I was reading this I’d think thank god it’s not me dealing with. But it is.

If it helps to hear me and my partner were sexless for about 5 years. I was running from my past until I couldn't run anymore and it all came to the surface and I started therapy. Over the last 18 months we have increased sexual contact gradually and now we have better sex than we have ever had before. There are sometimes when I am triggered and so we slow down or stop or try something different. We have very open communication and my partner knows what works for me that is pleasurable but also what is likely to shut me down.

Obviously it takes both of you working together to make that work but how things are now might well be temporary and people can move forward. They can heal and they can make real positive steps in their recovery. Being abused or hurt in the past can make us immobile, frozen, stuck in the past but there's no reason why, usually with professional help, we can't move forward and become unstuck and experience life in a completely different way. I have hope for you both right now.

@CrashingAgain

Also it turns out the majority of the debt was accrued long before we met. He said he can be fine for ages and working it off and then he’ll have a low patch mentally where he goes totally nihilistic, drinking and gambling all his money away again. He said that’s only happened once since we met and it was the few months after he found out about his brother, and he’s since reined it in again since last Christmas. So I’m cautiously hopeful that we can get this under control and he said he can now come to me when he’s feeling low rather than hide it and behave recklessly in secret. God this is so awful. If I was reading this I’d think thank god it’s not me dealing with. But it is.

OP, he needs specific focused help with the gambling. It's an addiction and the relapses are signature.

Counselling and therapy for the childhood trauma as well. But going through that therapy process will likely make things worse for his mental health for a while.

You need something in place (that is not promising to tell you or personal willpower) to prevent him going back to his damaging coping strategies of gambling and bingeing.

There needs to be a joined-up approach here, otherwise he'll relapse and it'll be a spiral of self-hate and resentment on your part.