MIL's expectations about granny flat

[RhinestoneCowgirl]

I posted this earlier in Elderly Parents but I thought Relationships might have more traffic...

DH and I have recently returned from a visit to MIL's home city, we live 200 miles away and stayed with DH's younger brother and wife as MIL is still not happy with having people to stay in her house (covid related). It has come to light that MIL wants BIL and SIL, who moved into their first home about two years ago, to build a granny annexe in their front garden for her, she would sell her current house to pay for it.

As a background MIL is in her early 70s and in generally good health, she had cancer 15+ years ago but is fully in remission. Pre-pandemic she was full-time carer for her own mum who lived next door, but now other family members have taken this on and she isn't involved in her mum's care at all at the moment. MIL has been extremely anxious about covid and I think her MH has been poor. She can be quite a challenging character and has just one close friend who lives locally. She divorced from FIL nearly 25 years ago.

While we were visiting I had a long chat one evening with SIL, who I get on very well with (and she and BIL are fab with our children). SIL is very unhappy about the prospect of this proposed granny flat project, but says that BIL feels that he owes this to his mum and can't say no. I think it is causing some strain in their relationship. DH seems to be sticking his head in the sand about it, and has made non-committal noises when the subject was raised.

My own parents are a similar age and have no expectations of me providing care for them - we have had some roundabout discussions. I realise it's different for MIL as she's on her own, but I wondered how reasonable it is for her to have these expectations?

I think it's imperative they put their marriage first and if they aren't both on board with this then a firm no is OK. This is a huge commitment and everyone needs to be 100% on board.

The finances of doing this can get complicated so they'd need to think very carefully. If MIL uses her money to build the flat but the land it's built on belongs to other people what happens if she needs to get her money out eg to pay for a nursing home if/when her care needs increase.
Who will be providing care and what is needed now - it sounds like having people around is priority now - versus what may become necessary in the future?
It sounds rather blunt but what happens when she dies and the inheritance money is in a flat but not the land it's on and so it can't just be sold?

@SpidersAreShitheads

Funnily enough, we're just starting out on the process of selling our house, my mum selling her house - the plan is to buy a house and build a granny flat in the garden for her.

We have very specific requirements about space and personal boundaries. I can't actually manage my mum in huge doses but given the separation between the main house and her annexe, I think - hope! - it will work out OK. We have had very frank conversations about what we both need.

I think granny flats are do-able - but you have to be prepared to have difficult and blunt conversations, and everyone has to be totally on board. You also need to be very clear about what your boundaries are and communicate those before you take any action. And if there is any question that boundaries won't be respected, then it's a no-go.

Boundaries will not be respected , as health deteriorates you will be needed more. Only agree to this if you are willing to take on 24hour care.

Op I think you and SIL need to show an united front, I agree with others that due to not having a penis it will be expected that you and her do all the care.

The very act of suggesting it suggests that boundaries are not respected.
My MIL is similar, she tries it on with DH, in ways that her daughter would shut down instantly.

As others have said, support your SIL, and encourage your own DH to do the same.

My son, DiL and I are doing this but I'm the one who is making the sacrifice, I don't want to move I'm happy with my life but they can't get on the property ladder and this is the only solution.
The house will be in their name only as a gift from me and I said if anything happens to me, sickness, dementia I'll go into care, I don't want them to look after me and we don't want to see each other everyday.
IF I inherit anything from my own mother I may move out again.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky
Please think very carefully about doing this - you are leaving yourself with no security whatsoever and putting yourself in a very vulnerable situation. I know a family where the Grandma put her house in her eldest son's name so his family had somewhere to grow and they kicked her out and made her homeless.

I agree @Shehasadiamondinthesky please think carefully about this. You don't have to do it, getting on the property ladder is not essential (they can just continue renting). Is it worth giving up your independence?

@Shehasadiamondinthesky Strongly suggest you need financial and legal advice on that so you have protection ans some sort of interest it the property.

IF they were to divorce you son at best would get half the value of the property, and you both end up needing somewhere to live. They may be all happy and solid now but as Mumsnet threads proves, it can change rapidly.

OP, your DH & BiL need to be the ones to talk to their mother so she doesn't keep having hope it's possible.. I get the Catholic guilt but BiL could well lose his marriage over it if he agrees to go ahead - does he understand that yet?

SiL just needs to keep saying 'that won't work for us' and not give reasons, to Mil or her husband. Just no. . Any explanations of why not will be shot down or found ways around, so just 'it doesn't work for us' is enough. If it creates a bit of frostiness or a rift between MiL & Sil well SiL will probably prefer that that the alternative of MiL in the front garden.

Thanks for the replies everyone, it has strengthened my resolve and I know that DH has to step up to support his brother in this. I particularly appreciate those who have had personal or professional experience of this.

MIL has no awareness of others boundaries, and it is becoming obvious that DH and his brother have to have a proper conversation about this. Because MIL was long time carer for her own mother, she sees it as her right to have the same from her children. But we can see the demands that this caring relationship placed upon her, and it did change her relationship with her mum.

Quite apart from the practicalities of a building project (which in planning permission and finance terms sounds very complicated and potentially impossible) this has brought into focus MIL's expectations. It's going to be a pretty tricky set of conversations, but they can't be avoided any further.

Just no. Parents expecting long term care from children that are still working is different from a child who was say a house for providing care.
Sadly it very rarely works out and the brother will agree and SIL will be the one washing your DM and changing the sheets and then divorcing him

My 85yr old mum has just bought the property next door but one to me. She will be moving 80 miles from where she currently lives. She very much wants to keep her independence for as long as possible. I am the only child, and single, so don't really have anyone else to consider, and will be able to see more of her than if she was still 90mins drive away.
However, if I was the DiL and really didn't want this to happen then I would be putting my foot down. A granny flat within a property could be fraught emotionally, financially, and affect family relationships massively.

OP you might want to read this current thread particularly about deprivation of assets and granny flats. Some complications i hadn't thought of!
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4328522-to-think-parents-are-being-naive-about-our-inheritance

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

My son, DiL and I are doing this but I'm the one who is making the sacrifice, I don't want to move I'm happy with my life but they can't get on the property ladder and this is the only solution. The house will be in their name only as a gift from me and I said if anything happens to me, sickness, dementia I'll go into care, I don't want them to look after me and we don't want to see each other everyday. IF I inherit anything from my own mother I may move out again.

I'm sorry but you would be crazy to do this.

Pre-pandemic she was full-time carer for her own mum who lived next door, but now other family members have taken this on and she isn't involved in her mum's care at all at the moment

This is SIL get out of jail free card, why would MIL expect care from son and DIL when she won't provide care for her own mother? Does mil not feel guilty or a bit hypocritical at all? If you bil is so eager to provide care he can move in with mil full-time can't he and do the work, because if he moves mil into the home against sil wishes his marriage is over so may as well separate now.

@Shehasadiamondinthesky please please think carefully and take legal advice about what you're doing. If you do need residential care in the future or more assistance in your own home, you'll run into problems paying for it without assets in your name, could appear to have intentionally deprived yourself of those assets (which means you wouldn't get funding) or would end up battling for funding and very little choice where to go. What happens to your money if you need access to it - would the whole house/granny flat have to be sold?