Strained friendship that needs to end, but carries on.

[PushpullPushPull]

I’ve NC’d for this, been on MN a while, but please bear with me, I’m not the best at articulating things well.

Back story; Dh and I have been friends with a couple since 2009.
I’ll call them Joe and Jane.

Joe was a colleague of dh’s, we all went on work nights out, and were in the same group of friends.

Just before he met Jane, Joe came on holiday with dh and I, a bit of a last minute thing.

We all really hit it off, same music tastes etc, so we were really pleased when he met Jane.

A friendship between the four of us developed and we started to meet up for nights out quite regularly, weekends away etc.
Then Joe and Jane were hit by a tragedy. Their little girl died a few hours after Jane gave birth.

At the same time I was going through hell with my mother, which resulted in me having a breakdown. I’m ashamed to say that because of this, I wasn’t there for Jane as much as I should have been.

I apologised to Jane and explained the best I could about what happened but she didn’t want to listen.

Jane comes from a very close family whereas my family is dysfunctional so she didn’t believe what I was saying. I went NC with my parents shortly afterwards, and we all still went out as friends, but Jane pulled back a bit from our friendship.

They eventually had a little boy and I was there for her, but it seemed like the slightest thing I said/did was wrong.

One evening Dh and I went to their house for a few beers and Joe dh and I were discussing music, having a bit of a pop quiz so things got a little raucous which woke their little boy up. Jane glared at me and made it to be my fault, and then accused me of fancying Joe. Of course I don’t, but that didn’t stop Jane telling our wider group of friends that I do.
Group of friends have since made passing digs at me and because of this I can’t talk to Joe without feeling I’m being watched.

But the friendship continues, as Joe and dh were friends originally.

When we spend time together it’s a constant struggle.
Jane makes it clear she is bored, makes seemingly Innocent digs about my looks but I’m supposed to take it as a joke, gushes to anybody who listens about how she loves their house, how big it is (she doesn’t like our house, she pulls her nose up at it).

I can’t talk to her on her own anymore as she is quite nasty so I’ve given up and talk more to dh and Joe, so then it’s the ‘push pull fancies Joe’ accusation. I can’t win.

I feel like there is an elephant in the room and I would like to end the friendship but it isn’t easy as dh and Joe were friends beforehand and as usual I’ll be the bad guy even though I suspect she wants out also.
Sort that was a ramble.

What can I do?

@PushpullPushPull

It’s never that straightforward. Every time I think they have ‘gone’ so to speak, Jane contacts us to ask why we’ve not been in contact with them. Like it’s us that has to contact first. Another thing for us to look bad. I think Jane is thinking that if Joe and dh go out together, then me and her would have to go out as well, so I think that’s why it’s stopped.

It is that simple.

DH and his mates do blokes nights out/stuff by themselves. Just block her number so she can't contact you again. If Joe asks DH anything, he can make excuse or tell the truth that you're sick of his wife. Which will probably end the friendship.

Why haven’t you been in contact with us?
Because it seems like you don’t like me Jane and that makes me uncomfortable

I think you have gone from a dysfunctional relationship with your family, to a dysfunctional friendship.

Often when we start to come out of the FOG of a toxic family, we realise that we have a few toxic friends as well. Because the way a toxic friend treats you is familiar. It's what you think you deserve.

You went NC with your family. Go NC with Jane.

If she messages asking why you haven't contacted, you don't reply. If your DH wants to reply that's up to him. Let him see Joe on his own.

Protect your own mental health.

@EvenMoreFuriousVexation

I think you have gone from a dysfunctional relationship with your family, to a dysfunctional friendship.

Often when we start to come out of the FOG of a toxic family, we realise that we have a few toxic friends as well. Because the way a toxic friend treats you is familiar. It's what you think you deserve.

You went NC with your family. Go NC with Jane.

If she messages asking why you haven't contacted, you don't reply. If your DH wants to reply that's up to him. Let him see Joe on his own.

Protect your own mental health.

You are right. It is a toxic friendship.

She contacts me on our WhatsApp group which includes all four of us, not on her own number. Mostly I let dh reply but lately she is using my name directly which makes it difficult.
I feel tired and triggered.

I would leave the WhatsApp group. It really is that simple. She has accused you of fancying/flirting with her dp, and made her suspicions public to others. That should have been when you ended the friendship.

I think she wants to engineer a big fall out so she can cut off you both… so the men also can’t be friends. Potential to loose wider friendship group. So depends on what you want, as the saying goes you can’t change someone else’s behaviour, only your response. I wouldn’t agree to 4 of you going out, be busy but dh can make it. Go out in wider group and smile from a distance, don’t talk to her husband. Not sure you can win anyone round tbh, her tradagy means it’s all seen from her point of view by everyone.

She is not a good person at all and doesn't deserve to be friends with you after how she has treated you.
I would tell DH you don't want to be friends with her any more and that it's because of the way she has acted towards you. It's her fault that then friendship has ended. Accusing you of fancying her husband is just childish and ridiculous, being nasty to you is the same. You don't have to put up with it - so don't.

I think you need to be honest. Send her a message saying that you and she aren't getting on any longer. Tell her you know about the gossip she is spreading about you and put her right. Say you wish her well, but you're happy for the men to meet up without you from now on. Then block her and ignore her. Does your OH know about the nasty rumours?

Next time there’s an invitation phone her and just ask her why she continues to invite you when you when it’s clearly quite difficult for you both to feel comfortable with each other, and wouldn’t it be better to let the men go out alone?

Drop out of the whatsapp group - you don't need to explain.

Tell your partner that the couples' friendship is no longer working, so he'll need to be active in maintaining his friendship with Joe off his own bat. Dunno what it is that men think they can leave it to their partners to manage both of their social lives but there's no need for you to buy into it.

Just be upfront and honest.

'You've accused me of fancying Joe (which I don't by the way), you make digs about my appearance, belittle our house and slate me to our mutual friends' why on earth would I want to spend time with you'

But that's just me

Further, what on earth is your dh playing at anyway? This woman's accusing you of flirting with her husband, and he's just ignoring it and expecting you to put up with it?

He needs to handle his own friendship and leave you out of it.

@bigbaggyeyes

Just be upfront and honest.

'You've accused me of fancying Joe (which I don't by the way), you make digs about my appearance, belittle our house and slate me to our mutual friends' why on earth would I want to spend time with you'

But that's just me

Me too. Let the two DH's go out alone

Am I the only one wondering why you just don't talk to your husband about all the examples you've posted and tell him you're not doing it anymore??

I feel like you know exactly what you need to do here, but you are reluctant to listen to the signs, which is understandable as there are other people who will be affected. If you feel triggered then allow yourself to feel that and respect your own right to step back from someone who for whatever reason seems to have taken some sort of centre stage in your life. You said you didn't support her through the death of her child, but you were also clearly facing your own difficult challenges at the time and therefore she wasn't there for you either. She contacts you to ask why you haven't contacted her, yet she could clearly just contact you without that question. There is no reason why you are solely responsible for waking her child. There is some dynamic at play here for both of you which feels like it can't just rumble on. You have already experienced the hell of a breakdown, so use this experience to create healthy boundaries for yourself as you do not want to return there again. Maybe speak to a counsellor if you need to. It's so hard OP, my family dynamics were painful and manipulative and I keep finding relationships where these are pulled up time and again. I am trying to find ways to become healthier but it is hard going, I am not used to placing my own boundaries. Good luck.

I feel like you know what you can and should do, but you're purposely not doing so. Are you secretly enjoying the drama?

I mean, she's already talking about you disparagingly to mutual friends, so what difference does it make if you pull back from the "friendship" and she then complains to them about that?

I don't really understand why you'd continue to entertain this when the obvious answer is to let your husband and Joe continue to be friends on their own. It doesn't always need to be a group outing.

Obviously stop seeing them altogether?? Why is this even up for discussion? Just... Don't ever speak to her again?

@SnatchCassidy

Am I the only one wondering why you just don't talk to your husband about all the examples you've posted and tell him you're not doing it anymore??

Nope.

No one can force you to be friends with someone. Mute the WhatsApp group and let your partner deal with them. If he wants to still be friends with Joe let him and that's it.

Leave the whatsapp group and let your Dh arrange to meet joe for a pint on their own when they want to catch up. Don't invite them to your house again and don't accept invites to theirs. She's not your friend and there's no point putting up with her for the sake of your Dh.

Why should you apologise for having a breakdown?

Have you spoken to your DH about how you feel about the friendship now. Is he aware and does he see what you see?

I would leave the what’s app group. If she makes an another attempt to contact you outside of that I would be honest and say that you aren’t comfortable hanging out as a group as she accused you of fancying Joe and talked to their friends about it.