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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Am I being mean? (don't want to be)

13 replies

WinglessSonglessBird · 15/08/2021 14:44

Wondering if anyone has any perspective, insight into whether I'm in the wrong. If I am, tell me, cuz I'd rather not be. I'm getting more and more depressed and confused over this; it's really affecting me but am told I should not be upset at all, and that I am in the wrong.

Short synopsis for context: over the past few years I've realized just how my life experiences, especially when young, really shaped what I should expect from people and relationships. Not in a blame way; just trying to understand myself, so as to protect my heart, body, soul.

I put up with a lot of mean behavior from people. Most of this has been through friendships and mostly with women. Accepting cruel behavior and mean things said to me, mostly cuz I feel I must deserve it and it's the only kind of friends I'll ever deserve or get. I dated once, and it wasn't good at all, was starting to become physically abusive; I left. This was years ago. Have never pursued dating cuz I'm ugly, don't have the things in life people want, and I do not believe anybody would ever love me for me or show me love, only hurt and abuse and derision.

Have had zero positive role models, for relationships, I've realized. Thought it was normal. Real dad was violent, abusive, tried to kill my mom; mom left. Nothing is ever discussed in family. Anything to do with your body is hush-hush, just go to a dr if sick, get pills, but never talk about it. Mom has had a semi-abusive bf for many years. If he doesn't hit you or try to kill you, it means he's good, I've always thought. Women too. Mom puts up with a bunch of stuff and her health and mental health has been trash. Again, never saw this when young. Mom has like literally one friend. Us kids were never encouraged to date, have friends. I isolated severely most my life. Do not know how to have relationships. Also 100% believe the older I get that all humans are abusive and love is a fairy tale, so I've made peace with being alone forever. I will never let another human near my body especially, nor my heart. And no, I'm no better, I suck too.

Anyway, I've had trauma in my life. According to experts it is why jerks gravitate towards me. I gave up trying to make friends past few years. Stopped being friends with some ladies who were very, very cruel, even saying I'm a fool cuz my kindness is weakness so I got what I deserved by them.

Creepy, usually old, men say creepy shit to me, like very disturbing. Therapist I had said I need to stop wearing shirts with cartoons on them cuz I'm just drawing those pedophile-y men to me. And that if I heal my trauma they will leave me alone. I mean anywhere I go...the bus, the store, a walk, anywhere. Further reason I will never try to date ever in life; I'm broken and only very disturbing, hurtful, mean, creepy men will talk to me, and 75% of time only very cruel women. I was told I put off a vibe cuz of my trauma so only pedophile-y people will want me. Sad further proof I will be alone forever. Yes very lonely. Would rather die lonely than go by any humans ever again in life. Humanity is disgusting, abusive.

Anyway, was told it is prejudice of me to be scared of men. Cuz not all men are bad. Which I understand! But even as friends, that's prejudice. Well I've tried having 3 male friends over a few years. They knew up front, just friends, wasn't interested. 1 faded away, but I couldn't be around his anger issues. Another ended up saying if he couldn't touch me to never come back and was violent but said he was allowed to hurt me and me nor anyone could do anything about it cuz I cut myself and I would get sent to the hospital and locked up but I should let him hurt me cuz you are not allowed to hurt yourself but other people can. So I never did go back. Even my therapist said that's true...if I hurt myself I will get locked up. But if I go to this guy to literally hurt me, they can't do anything. And this guy said he would deny it anyway or that I wanted it, even if didn't. So I said well next time I wanna cut, I guess I can go find some psycho to hurt me and he will be celebrated. I hate society. This guy even said he was mad that it's always up to the women (about touching). I said that's cuz we aren't forcing or wanting you to do stuff you don't want to do!!! He didn't understand.

Another I've been confused about. Knew I wasn't interested. Ended up saying he was in love with me. Would never hurt me, that's not an issue. But keeps asking me to touch me and why can't I love him, and it's not fair cuz he won't hurt me wants to love me and I'm being mean. I said thanks for thinking highly of me, but the answer is no, will always be no, I'm not obligated to let me touch you, I don't love you like that, I'm not trying to be mean, I'm not gonna be your friend if you can't accept that. He was VERY mean with his words. Said I'm incapable of love. Nobody else would love me. I'm throwing true love away. I'm making him seem like a monster and abuser (when I told him I know you wouldn't force me but stop asking). Weeks later he apologized, said I did nothing wrong and that he was just mad he couldn't get what he wanted (my body). I said ok thanks for saying that. Stopped talking to him as much. Was around him recently, and same thing. And he was mad that I told a family member about all this (cuz I'm trying to figure out how to be nice and maybe I'm doing something wrong). I said so I can't tell anyone anything? I said I didn't say you were some monster, I said I don't know if it's good for me, nor him, if we're friends cuz he keeps asking every so often to touch me and to be with him and that he is only trying to show love so he is not mean and won't hit me or hurt me, but he just eventually gets upset cuz can't have me, and I get upset and triggered and say no, which then mean things are said to me.

I even told him, listen, we can't be friends if you can't accept you can't have me like that. He says yes, I'm right, but then does the same things later. Listen, I don't dress provocatively, or even pretty, or anything around him. I recently told him I'm staying away and we have to go our separate ways cuz it's too upsetting for him not to have and it's too upsetting me keep having to say no and then get an onslaught of hate. He even recently said cuz I said no he was gonna purposely spread very bad rumors about me to where I will never want to leave my door. I was floored. I've already had some ladies past year very cruel to me, and semi-similar thing cuz I'm not willing to do some things with my body. So between covid, and people being very cruel, and never had lots friends anyway, I literally never leave. Eventually food runs out but that's the only time I leave. Trying to lose extra fat anyway. Been told by men and women that I am not pretty. Have had people tell me that the only reason anyone is around me sometimes is cuz I'm nice and do what I'm told. In early 20s I literally had a Dr say "you're gonna have a hard time in life cuz you're not that smart and not that pretty, but you listen pretty good and generally do what you're told." I took it to heart then. And I do believe it; everyone has told me.

Anyway, am I in the wrong for not wanting to be this guy's friend? He's not mean, he wouldn't ever hit me or hold me down etc. I feel I deserve to be treated bad by people, but I'm not willing to put up with it, so if it's my punishment by God, God will havta hurt me Himself.

Am I being mean to this guy? I feel it's not cuz that's my body, and I don't love him at all like that. But I feel guilty and bad. And I'm never trying to make any other friends in life again. It's all my fault anyway. Cuz I'm broken. Even for years therapists said I need to fix myself, not try and get friends, and definitely no dating. So I never did. And I'm not allowed to bring up anything others have done or do cuz I'm the one subconsciously attracting not-great people around me. But not EVERYTHING is my fault??? I fully understand I'm no perfect person. I guess broken girls are meant to hide away from society, wait to die. Nobody wants to be around ugly, stupid, broken girls. If psycho people go after you, too bad, own fault. At the same time I don't want to be mean to anyone. It could be my fault. I guess I'm supposed to just keep it quiet. This shit never ends, ever since I was small. I just pray to God I get covid and die. Even some girls said nobody likes me, I'm kinda strange, and everyone where I live hopes I'm the first to die here of covid. I said, good, I hope I do die. Don't worry, I"m not suicidal. Yes, I do hope I get the covid and die, it'd free me from being imprisoned in a shit, hell body, on a shit, hell planet, with a shit, hell species. I wish I was 80 and life definately close to done, but I'm not that old yet. I just ignore self and kill time all day everyday. Literally don't talk to anyone except in passing to a store, say hi.

Is it ok and not mean to just not be this guy's friend anymore? He will come to my place saying sorry and he will just be friends, not ask me for more, and he was sorry etc. However 3 times it didn't work like that, he kept asking I said no...then him being mad. I am now kinda worried he's gonna go spread rumors and I had someone do this to me before and they weren't even true for one thing, but people were wishing I would die. I am no good person--don't get me wrong. I was truly born evil and if I die and God says I have to go to hell I won't argue with Him, though would rather just have my soul obliterated forever to prevent evil. I don't like evil. Though in therapies if you don't like something that means you've got it. So in honesty I must be abusive and evil and awful too, which I'm sorry for, and I give myself severe punishments for it. And believe me I do try and work really hard to be good, I swear; I'd rather be on the Good team. But I'm not.

Anyway, I intend to just not be this guy's friend anymore. Was I in the wrong? I've apologized lots of times for hurting him and that I never meant to.

I've concluded your body is not yours, it's society's and other people's. So I'm making it sick and ugly and letting it deteriorate and have been, and keeping away from humans. That's MY body. Apparantly not and people get enraged about it, regular people even professionals. And over my dead body is any human ever going near my body again, no joke! Hopefully the masks and social distancing last forever cuz it's not safe around humans. I literally am disgusted to be apart of the human race, I'm sorry. No offense to any awesome humans which I'm sure there are few somewhere. Until I can literally read minds, I want no part; it is not safe, good, or loving to have your heart or body by any humans (nor trusting my own self).

Is this how most relationships, friends or otherwise, are? Anyone I've ever observed or known it seems to be. Either physical or other abuse. It has to be I deserve it, even when young. And any harm to me is always about what did I do to attract it or make it happen.

That's ok to not be this guy's friend? I don't care if he wanted to treat me like the best princess ever; I do not love him like that and do NOT want to be touched. I don't understand why that makes me bad, but it might. I'm planning on staying away. Don't need friends like that. But is that mean and petty to not be friends with someone for that? He gets hurt. He says I'm saying that he is an abusive monster. No I didn't. But I still don't want to be his girl or be touched and I'm not ever going to love him like that, and I"m really starting to think I can't be friends with him either, but that's kinda mean and I said sorry about it but it's true. All the humans hate me anyway, so I guess if they think I'm even more shit, oh well??? Should I just let him "love" me and touch cuz I owe him and that I suck so bad that's the best I could get and nobody will ever love me like him, he said? I don't want to. Would rather get cancer! He thinks I'm just not honoring my true feelings about loving him. NO that is NOT it. I just can't stop crying. I can't wait til my soul is no longer imprisoned in a body or on earth, that's what keeps me going is knowing some day it will be over. Doesn't matter; I don't care anymore. I do not want to negatively affect others either! If I owe an apology more, I will. However then I'm further keeping away from others. Prob gonna be in lockdowns again come fall/winter anyway, I expect.
Thanks for reading, sorry if too long.

OP posts:
EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 15/08/2021 15:55

Oh OP I couldn't bear to read all of this, it's too painful. You have survived so much!

Ask yourself what you've learned from your childhood. How did your parental figures treat each other?

category12 · 15/08/2021 16:06

OP, you're doing the right thing ending this "friendship" with this guy - he keeps saying he can be OK with just being friends and then pushes your boundaries repeatedly trying to make you change your mind.

Essentially he's not a nice guy.

You're not being mean - he is the one being mean and cruel and nasty.

I guess you're probably aware of the shark cage analogy? www.oomm.live/the-shark-cage-metaphor-spotting-potential-abusers/

PlanDeRaccordement · 15/08/2021 16:17

Anyway, am I in the wrong for not wanting to be this guy's friend?

No. Friendship must go both ways. Only if both of you want to be friends with each other will it work out. You are not obligated to be friends with anyone no matter how much they say they love you. If you’re not feeling it, don’t be friends.

Is it ok and not mean to just not be this guy's friend anymore? He will come to my place saying sorry and he will just be friends, not ask me for more, and he was sorry etc. However 3 times it didn't work like that, he kept asking I said no.

Not it is not mean. In fact, I’d advise you to remove him from your life as he is not respecting you or your boundaries at all. He’s not acting like a friend, so he’s not a friend.

Is this how most relationships, friends or otherwise, are? Anyone I've ever observed or known it seems to be. Either physical or other abuse. It has to be I deserve it, even when young. And any harm to me is always about what did I do to attract it or make it happen.

No, most relationships are not abusive. No, you do not deserve it and you are not at fault for being abused by past abusers. You are vulnerable to abuse and many abusers have a sixth sense and target vulnerable women...but being targeted is not you attracting or making abuse happen at all!

That's ok to not be this guy's friend? I don't care if he wanted to treat me like the best princess ever; I do not love him like that and do NOT want to be touched. I don't understand why that makes me bad, but it might. I'm planning on staying away. Don't need friends like that

Yes! You are doing right thing by planning on staying away and keeping him away. He is not a friend to you and you don’t need an abuser in your life. Good job for identifying him for the scumbag he is. I know you are doubting yourself, but doubt no more! You are making the best decision by ending things with him.

LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 15/08/2021 22:17

You don't owe him anything certainly not friendship, let alone anything sexual. He's ignored your boundaries over and over, tried to push you into a sexual relationship you obviously don't want. Those are the actions of an abuser. What kind of person thinks you owe it to them to let them touch you because they 'love' you. He knows you don't want anything sexual from him, he doesn't care, he wants to push you into having sex with him knowing full well you don't want to. He's an abuser who is happy to coerce sexual contact from you. Please go NC with this abusive jerk. You deserve so much better.

WinglessSonglessBird · 15/08/2021 23:53

Ok, thanks. He's otherwise a good friend. I'm always made to feel bad, and crazy, and mean and that I'M the problem for saying I do not ever want anything more. He would for no reason on occasion freak out and yell at me to never come back if I can't be touched. I said do you do this with all your female friends. He said no cuz he loves me.

And other day I again said no but I just say no and ignore instead of getting upset cuz then that's proof to him I'm crazy and need his love or something, but after learning I talked to my sister, said he'd purposely spread rumors and make it so I will never wanna leave my place, which I haven't left all day. Barely did before anyway. I'm just gonna hide out. I'm not answering the door for anyone, it's an invitation to abuse of all kinds, from all people man or woman. I'm so done. Alas, stuck on this planet, in this body though Sad

Thing is he knows I literally have no friends, even used it against me when mad. Even said he knows I will never find love and if I pass him up I will be lonely and unloved forever. Thing is, he's probably right. Though have always been lonely, whole life, and rather be lonely than deal with abusive humans ever again. And I will certainly never make the mistake of letting any human near my body ever again, man or woman. However he's not wrong that everyone thinks I'm worthless aside from creepy jerks or cruel people. Wish they had assisted suicide for worthless citizens if you signed up. Cuz really I've failed in life and it's too late, I've accepted it. However in life not every single thing was my fault, but I suppose it must be, even according to family, and friends I've had in past. I've been told I have no right to anger at others and that I'm really just mad at self. Which upsets me. However I own my parts, and I do hate, mad at self, that's no secret. I just don't understand anymore and hope to fade away. Won't be missed. A lady even recently said everyone is just waiting for me to die, get murdered, or kill self. I will have to value myself; however I don't really, and that's my problem, no one else's. So I will just keep to self.

Will try to stay strong and not go back to agreeing to being this guy's friend. I mean, I've had no one trustworthy around in life for decades. Any friends that were good are gone for various reasons, not all bad, life happens. And I didn't reach the normal milestones in life so I don't really have anything in common with most people. But I will survive.

I think I have it in my head that as long as no one is hitting you or trying to actually kill you that they are awesome.

No, never had good role models for friendships or romantic. And my poor mom left a VERY abusive guy to where she almost died and then has been with one for decades who does NOT treat her well but does not physically hurt her, and they don't even talk or barely in same room and don't sleep in same room, for decades. Though she always acquiesces to his material, money, cleaning, cooking, health needs.

Never thought of it much except past few years cuz that's her life not mine. However I think I did learn to never put yourself first, even in your own mind; even body care is considered not good for girls to do and it's unfeminist and vain and attention seeking. However the older I get, the more I think some adult women in my life while I was a kid had internalized misogyny or self hate, certainly wounds, of which the family is never allowed to talk about, and I wouldn't trust to anyway. Though I do not blame my mother or others at all; the blame lies with me. Though in the past when I've tried protecting my sister, and even mentioned something about me...to her, it was our fault. I literally didn't talk at all, barely, even in school, for years and years. We were not encouraged to not isolate so that's all we did. Every man for himself, figure it out yourself, but don't talk. And God forbid your body is having a problem! I don't understand things sometimes. There are many people, including women, who claim to be all for women's rights etc, but when I've thought of it recently, they kinda aren't in some ways that don't make sense to me. Probably out of guilt.

I'm quite sure in a day or some days he will try to find me. I have literally locked self in where I live. However, I keep crying. And also flooded with other unpleasant memories. Just trying to read or electronic games or tv or crafts, think of something else. I'm just waiting for me to die too, so other people need to calm down!

Thank you so much for the input. I will try and remember I'm not wrong for setting boundaries and it's ok and I don't have to feel bad even if called a frigid crazy bitch. Can't wait til I have menopause and also more invisible in society cuz I'd rather just fade away. Honestly I don't think there is or was any point to my life. However I'm just holding out that when I die God won't think I'm complete evil and I can go with angels and my pet and former friend and former family member.

Thanks for the input!

OP posts:
WinglessSonglessBird · 16/08/2021 00:20

i've also remembered that half the time my friend gets mad cuz I've said no, that he's purposely turned things on the tv that he knows are very upsetting and triggering (rape crime tv, murders, etc), and when I've gotten upset and asked it to be changed, I'm the intolerant one and I'm making him out to be a monster when he likes and he can watch whatever he likes cuz he likes seeing em caught, and that I'm crazy. But when I've said fine and just went home, I'm being a bad friend. I can't win, no matter what.

Thing is he is the ONLY person who will actually talk to me and is usually nice. Aside from a few family, though we are not close. A few in-passing people are pleasant to me. I guess I either have to be alone or put up with very upsetting things even if it is my fault. I'd rather be alone. However, I could potentially be alive for like 50 more years and all day I've just been crying and crying. I will survive. Hopefully no one else fails at life like I do and has better humans around them. I have a pet who she's my friend and an inanimate thing who she's my friend,and they are my best friends forever, I love em soooo muchSmile

OP posts:
RantyAunty · 16/08/2021 00:32

No such thing as male friends.

Delete and block this arse.

And yes, pets are the best.

Have you ever tried volunteer work?

category12 · 16/08/2021 05:30

He's really very abusive, op, no friend at all.

WinglessSonglessBird · 16/08/2021 10:43

Never had an interest in male friends, ever (no offense to guys at all!), however...over the years people keep pointing out that it's prejudice, which I felt bad about cuz I suppose it is (is out of fear, also nothing in common, which are biases I understand), so I thought I'd try and not be that way. However after attempting 3 guy friends, and this last one, I will never again try it. The male human species can stay far away. The men on earth will be fine without my friendship, I'm quite sure! And some women are just as bad. I'm no man hater, though honestly as a whole would say scared of. Also they seem from another planet lol, which I'm sure I do, too. If I'm accused of being prejudice or a bigot, well so be it. I don't hate them or wish them harm. Until I can read minds, it's too hard to weed out mean or dangerous ones (goes for women too; trust me, been around some women just as bad and physically violent as men). Granted, I know little about men so was trying to broaden, lessen prejudice, etc. Oh well. Was bad enough around guys without trying to be friends. I know lots of women with guy friends, cuz they're people too, however I'm sure there are plenty of guys who don't want women friends. Just respect their humanity etc and go about your business. Guess is nothing wrong with it.

I'd kindof thought of volunteering, but I get extreme social anxiety and anxiety in general, panic. Been worse since the covid stuff started. People are more vile, I swear! I don't feel safe amongst humans, and the bigger the group, the more potential threats there are. However I've helped individual people, like gone to the store for some elderly people, helped clean, that sort of thing. However I will keep an eye out for a safe-type (to me) volunteering thing.

OP posts:
LunaAndHerMoonDragons · 16/08/2021 12:33

I don't know if they have the equivalent in the UK, but something like meals on wheels or driving the elderly are volunteer opportunities that don't involve a crowd. Delivering the food, having a bit of a chat one on one. Something this might be an emotionally safe place to start. Or something in physical a walking group, tennis club, martial arts might help you feel safer. Exercise and fresh air can help with anxiety, help you sleep too which in turns helps the anxiety. I love to run or rage clean, when my anxiety and panic are bad. You could join some Facebook groups, build a few connections, on screen feels safer than in person. There's anxiety support groups on Facebook, hobby interest groups, lots of options. Baby steps, little by little you can get to where you want to be mentally and friendship wise. Put the energy you're using to try and work out your "friend" into something that will push you in the right direction of finding those connections you need.

ravenmum · 16/08/2021 12:48

Sounds like you are in a bad way, OP. It's a double whammy that your experiences make you unable to get any support from the healthcare community. Very impressive that you have kept on trying to make friends despite your social anxiety and background.
he knows I will never find love and if I pass him up I will be lonely and unloved forever
You won't find love with him, as you don't love him and anyway he's an abusive sex pest. So if you pass him up it will make your life better than being with him.

category12 · 16/08/2021 13:07

Try not to be afraid to have boundaries and if someone repeats offends crossing them, don't keep giving chances. Build up your "shark cage".

Some of the things that contribute to having a shark cage that’s a fixer-upper are:

- Believing that you are fundamentally not good enough in some very important way. (Not pretty enough, or smart enough, or sophisticated enough, etc. )
- Being raised with unhealthy relationships, especially domestic violence, as your primary model.
- Being abused as a child, especially sexually abused.
- Having your wants and needs continually disrespected as a child
- Believing that you owe anyone who is “nice” to you a portion of your time and attention above a simple “thank you”.
- Thinking that saying “no” is rude.
- Being so starved for touch and/or love that you are willing to accept being treated as an object in exchange for touch and occasional affection.

Things you can do to develop a better shark cage -

- Working with a therapist or other professional to work through the trauma that is in your way.
- Spending time and effort examining your belief that you’re “not good enough” and changing it.
- Observing people in healthy relationships to see how they interact.
- Practicing recognizing, respecting and fulfilling your own wants and needs as best you can.
- Getting in the habit of saying “no” to small things, and work your way up.
- Saying “thank you” as full repayment for compliments and attention, especially if you didn’t ask for it.
- Dealing with touch starvation through use of an emotional support animal, family, and/or supportive friends.
- Getting into the habit of “listening” to your body and your “spidey-sense”.

WhatMattersMost · 16/08/2021 13:42

OP, what a horrendous time you have had. I am so sorry that it seems you're not getting a healthy, loving reflection of you, no matter where you turn.

You mention a therapist. Are you still seeing one? For how long? What kind of therapy? Are you on medication? (I'm a therapist, and these are the first questions I'd be asking you if you came to me.)

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