Relationship counselling, mumsnet and real life

[Elderpower]

There seems to be 3 stories to my marriage. Real life is me living with a constant irritable feeling around DH. His odd behaviours, me wanting space from him, feeling smothered and yet on the whole, being civil with him and putting a front on to the world. Sometimes, really enjoying his company and often, not.

Then the mumsnet version, as I seem to use the site as a crutch where I voice everything negative and never anything positive about my marriage. Usual responses are generally to LTB.

We have been struggling for some time and we are in relationship counselling. The sessions are always civil, polite, he admits his failings, I'll admit mine. We make headway in the session, agree to try harder etc. The counsellor is pleased with our progress, but I never really address the day to day bug bears during these sessions. How I don't dind him physically attractive anymore, how he sometimes smells, how me irritates the life out of me when he sits picking his feet every evening, that he talks too loud and makes me feel tense, I don't like his mother, I don't like his friends, their values or what they stand for, that I feel resentful for the way he behaved when I had PND. All of this, I can't really mention easily, because ultimately, it's all part of who he is and unchangeable. But because I haven't mentioned any of this
our counsellor doesn't understand the full extent of my feelings either.

Mumsnet is now this secret vice where I let out all my frustrations with DH and then continue as normal with him. It's just not balancing out. The reason we're in counselling is because communication between us is awful (for lots of reasons) and we need help with conversation. But part of me also feels that by not having uncomfortable conversations with him, I'm protecting myself from being hurt by the negative reactions that I might expect from him. At the same time, after a rant on mumsnet about him, I feel better and can tolerate him again, even enjoy his company.

I'm very confused.
I need to find where the balance is.
Any ideas?

He sounds like hard work. What do you get out of staying in the relationship? Perhaps, if you don't want to LTB, then you need to accept you are staying despite him, not because of him. Everyone makes compromises in life and perhaps you need to accept that you've tried counselling, nothing changed and you are persevering for x,y,z reasons.

This applies to me - it is the point I have reached and I frequently haunt the relationship forum, I think to feel less alone, not necessarily for advice. Your post resonates with me op. I am in the depths of the perimenopause which I feel complicates everything a bit too and just adds to the irritation I feel.

I'm wondering if you have been able to try different ways of approaching difficult topics in the counselling session. Because there are always going to be things that you can't talk about in the session - apart from anything else, counselling will end at some point. What about using it less as a forum, more as a personal training session on techniques for tackling the big stuff?

I agree with a pp that the issue about what happened when you had PND sounds central. Maybe for him too - who knows. Everyone has some annoying habits but it's possible that reaching some kind of understanding between you on that might reduce the overall level of stress in the relationship.

@Elderpower This is me 100%. Everything you've said is my experience. My dh is odd (talks to himself, makes his own meals i.e frozen pizzas and pot noodles, instead of my home cooked meals, thinks brushing his teeth once a week is enough), I need space and cannot be in the same room as him at times, I find him very difficult to talk to (everything is 'confusing' to him), and yet I put up with it and put on a show for people when necessary.

Then I come on here and moan about it every day, all the while he thinks things are fine. This is despite me telling him several times over the past few years how unhappy I am, and then everyone tells me to ltb.

And exactly the same as you, there are loads of things about him that drain me, but I feel they are too hurtful to bring up. He does the bliddy feet thing too. But all of the irritating things are part of him and even if he could change them, I still wouldnt want him near me, so I feel that by pointing out these issues, I'm making him think if he just stops doing them then all will be fine. Well, it won't. And in fact, the things I have brought up, he continues to do!!!!! So he doesn't even want to change. I have told my counsellor all of this, but the one time we went as a couple, I just froze and thought it was far too personal and hurtful to mention any of it. It's very hard to hurt someone, even if you can't stand them.

And - But part of me also feels that by not having uncomfortable conversations with him, I'm protecting myself from being hurt by the negative reactions that I might expect from him. At the same time, after a rant on mumsnet about him, I feel better and can tolerate him again, even enjoy his company. This is my main problem. I can rant and rave to the counsellor, my friends, my family, on here, but I never do it to him, so it stays inside and churns me up. I would rather have minimal polite communication and just 'leave it' than confront him and have an awful draining gaslighting session. I never enjoy his company though

I totally understand you, but unfortunately don't know how to help you! You are definitely not alone though. I worry that all I want to do is complain then do absolutely nothing about it, and everyone will get sick of me banging on about it. It's very mentally tiring.

19Bears

Can I ask, are there things preventing you from leaving a clearly unhappy situation?

This isn't a criticism because I am in a similar situation but I don't feel ready to do anything about it (yet) for a number of reasons.

@Robertslane oh I'm sorry you're in the same situation. It's just the usual thing of not wanting to upset the apple cart for the kids, and for him. My counsellor says I'm too nice! That's what stops me. I don't know how to put my needs first, well not even first, just somewhere on the list. I worry about how everyone else will cope, and forget all about how miserable I am. I think also because I am busy all day every day, there's no room to make a massive life change. DH has no family nearby for support, and no friends anywhere really .... So I worry that I'm abandoning him to the wind. He also suffers with anxiety, and obviously this would make him worse. I realise all of what I just typed is a long list of excuses. I can see the future, I imagine the relief of the time when it's just me and the boys, I dream of finding love, but I just can't make the move. I am trying with counselling and today I got some legal advice and did some research into the long awaited no fault divorce which will be available next year. The ball is very slightly starting to roll, and I just have to keep up the momentum until I finally get somewhere. How about you??? What is stopping you??

@Elderpower tbh on reading your subsequent post I agree with PP. Gaslighting is abuse and the rest of it is not a communication problem, it's a him choosing to be difficult and not communicate problem.

Individual counselling is definitely the way to go here for you, whether that takes the form of individual sessions with your relationship counsellor or you find someone to do your sessions separately.

I think you need to be honest with your counsellor just now about how you really feel. Also have a think about whether this is the right counsellor too, what do they do if you bring something up and your DH interrupts or tries to put his view above yours?

Why do you want to stay? In a non judgemental way of course, I've been where you are and it's really hard to unwrap it all in your head while you're in the middle of it.

@Jonjojobs123

It sounds like the feelings are mutual and he holds a load of resentment towards you also. Hence whenever you bring up things your unhappy about he just fires back with the things he doesn't like about you as an excuse. I remember the same with my husband, i'd try and tell him why i'd got so upset with something and he'd come back with yeah well you did that once blah blah. Or I don't like this about the way you react and he'd fire straight back well you do this and i hate that. Its a vicious cycle and tit for tat. We completed long stint of couples counselling and really nothing was resolved because we had been skirting over the real issues and resentment. All the counselling achieved was to enable us to live without rowing constantly. The only way to end it and resolve anything once and for all is to say it is over and i want to leave. At that point only the honest conversations start because there is nothing left to loose. I didn't like or love my husband particularly for a long time....years (not every second of everyday, we'd have happy family moments in amongst it with our kids but as a couple nope). We are now so happy together and i never would have believed it. But it took reaching the end and both choosing to come back.

What made you both chose to come back @Jonjojobs123 ?

@BeeOnADandelion your post at 13.02 is the most useful, helpful, insightful and profound thing I’ve ever read on here. And it’s absolutely encapsulated why my marriage failed, in a way I could never get to. You’re right - his standard for his own behaviour was appallingly low and he just tuned me out entirely when I tried to tell him he needed to do better. He thought he was the absolute dogs bollocks as a husband and father in the face of all evidence to the contrary.

Thankyou.

Counselling doesn't have to have a 'happily ever after' outcome to be successful op.

I/we tried it, for lots of the same reasons you describe (especially the pnd part, oh god that was such a dark time for me, and his lack of support during that time was the start of my overwhelming resentment towards him), and in just one session I realised that actually no, I don't want to be with this man who belittles me, gas lights me, has no appreciation or respect for me and everything I do for him, our kids and our home.

So in effect Relate failed in the sense that our relationship failed. But I see it that it gave me absolute clarity about my next steps.

Perhaps you'd be better investing in mediation to try and work on a positive outcome from separation? My ex was a complete narc and the divorce was, and the relationship between us remains acrimonious.

Absolutely, Relationship Counselling is not only for 'keeping a Relationship together'. It's for improving communication, understanding, exploring options and mediation to help make an ending less destructive.

19Bears Similar to you really. I am receiving therapy at the moment to unravel some other issues so need to deal with that. I am the one with anxiety and little family and poor social network. I can't envisage finding love...it's more like I want to find peace. The dcs are obviously a big factor and can't bring myself to upset everything and there are pros to my situation as well as a feeling of not being authentic in the way I am living. Timing really. Just worried it will never feel like the right time though but it definitely doesn't feel like the right time now. And with therapy etc. I want to get myself into a much better place (mentally and emotionally).

Oh and incidentally op issues surrounding pnd (amongst other things) and lack of support apply to me too.

Has your counsellor picked up on his tit for tat behaviour in sessions?