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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Abusive ex and secondary school choices

20 replies

thankyouforbeingafriend · 06/08/2021 11:32

I've posted on here before about my controlling, horrible abusive ex but this issue I could use some advice and help on please.

Background - I have more custody of our 10 year old DC than he does. Last year it was agreed between us that DC would have tuition to prepare for doing the 11+ exam this coming September. This suddenly changed at the start of this year when Ex emailed me to say he wanted me to agree to put his address down as primary address for DC as he wanted them to go to the secondary school nearest him. I refused saying we had agreed to the 11+ and we would look at all the options (including state schools in both our catchment areas) when Covid allowed visits. He also stopped supporting DC in doing tuition when at his house, and told them that they weren't smart enough to do the test. DC then started getting very upset at having to do the lessons when with me, and despite my trying to help them, I gave in eventually and cancelled the tuition, doing a few things to practice when DC was with me instead.

Ex is now taking me to court wanting them to decide to agree with him, that DC will be made to go to the school near them and he will have primary address (and primary custody too). Court date is not going to be before the 11+ exam takes place. I don't know whether to insist DC takes the 11+ test anyway, and everyone says that it should be their decision, but they won't say what they want as they know there is friction between their dad and me. Solicitor's advice is to establish what DC wants, but any conversation makes them too stressed.

All state schools in our catchments are equally good, but the grammars are better.

DC is of course very stressed and pressurised, I know Ex is leaning on them to get them to agree with him, although I can't prove it. I've tried to back off and keep things as light as I can these last few months, but as he is so pushy I think this is just pushing DC into agreeing with whatever he wants. I think not doing the 11+ is a big mistake as DC is very bright, and would do well, but I don't want to be a pushy parent making them unhappy.

Any advice please would be very welcome, the situation is breaking me and my DC.

OP posts:
54321nought · 06/08/2021 11:35

Take the 11+, or you won't have the possible option of a grammar school later

Babyiskickingmyribs · 06/08/2021 11:42

Take the 11+ - it will potentially give more options, not take any away. Tell DC that unfortunately Mum and Dad are having trouble agreeing which school they will go to, but that the judge will decide/mediators will help them to decide and they (Dc) is allowed to have an opinion and judge/mediator will listen to them too. Suggest neutral 3rd party that your DC can discuss schools with in the meantime (teacher at school, school friends, friends’ parents, maybe godparents or family friends that aren’t clearly aligned to either mum or dad ?) Doing the 11+ just means some nice grammar schools are potentially on the table, you don’t have to accept the place if your child gets in.

wewereliars · 06/08/2021 11:58

My son did the 11 plus for one of the Surrey grammars and got in in 2013. Quite honestly, if your son is bright, tuition is not really necessary. What is needed is regular practice against the clock of the likely question types. My ex is an abusive arse too, and having said he'd stay private then changed tack so I feel I put way too pressure on my son to get into a grammar

Keep it light and just do papers regularly and against the clock. Do a practice exam too if you can in one of the schols so the real thing is not overwhelming..

Some years later, because he wasn't really putting the work in, my son's form tutor showed us his entance marks and he had come in the top 10 or so of the whole year group. So the intense pressure was really overkill and unecessary .

Good luck

RandomMess · 06/08/2021 12:02

He takes the 11+ you explain it doesn't mean he has to go to any particular school but it would be nice to know how he does and gives them option of grammar if he decides he wants to go.

Urgh your ex is horrid.

30degreesandmeltinghere · 06/08/2021 12:04

Ime never agree to ex having the primary address status...

wewereliars · 06/08/2021 12:06

PS now that my son is 18, having just done his A levels, I am not at all sure whether he would not have been better off in a good comp!
His academics are first clas but I think he's lost out a bit by being in such a narrow environmement.

BrilloPaddy · 06/08/2021 12:10

Take the 11+ and explain you want him to do so - it will give him the best choices.

I'd also make the court aware that your ex is putting pressure on him..........

thankyouforbeingafriend · 06/08/2021 12:43

Thanks all, I was worried I was making a wrong decision here. I've already made court aware of what Ex is up to, and DC has a counsellor and support through school. I've said all along DC doesn't have to go to grammar it just gives them more options to choose from, but Ex is really getting into their head with the mind games. Sad

OP posts:
layladomino · 06/08/2021 12:46

I agree, by taking the 11+ you don't lose any options so nothing to lose - so if your DC doesn't feel strongly either way, then that's the right thing to do. Remember taking your 11+ isn't the same as choosing a school, so you can reassure your DC that they aren't 'siding' with one parent or another by taking it. It would just mean that, if they pass it, they have the full choice of all the available schools when it comes to it. They can still decide they would rather go to another school even if they pass.

Fireflygal · 06/08/2021 13:06

A court is likely to decide that both options remain open BUT at age 10/11 your child's view will be taken into account so if they decide they want the less pressurised environment of non selective it's likely their view will be heard. No court will force grammar.

Is there a non selective option in your area as without that you do risk your ex getting primary residency.

It is completely understandable for your dc to feel worried about grammar and ultimately it may not be right for them. Usually at this age they are influenced by friends or some specific feature of a school. Where will their friends go?

I would not tutor except for a few practice tests (there is a practice test anyway) and see what happens. Make sure your dc know that you have options in your area for schools outside of grammar.

Btw, Your ex could apply for an emergency hearing which will be heard earlier as he could cite the children's distress at taking the grammar test.

thankyouforbeingafriend · 06/08/2021 13:27

Thanks for the heads up @fireflygal I had no idea that could happen.

There is a non selective option in my area that would be my backup suggestion. All of DC's friends are trying for grammar.

OP posts:
Fireflygal · 06/08/2021 13:36

What has happened about a MIAM? Has mediation been tried first?

thankyouforbeingafriend · 06/08/2021 13:50

@fireflygal I offered mediation multiple times. He has refused to attend any.

OP posts:
Elbie79 · 06/08/2021 13:51

Definitely definitely take 11+. Otherwise it will limit the options as PP have said - but that could also make ex's application more likely to succeed.

I don't agree with your solicitor's advice. It's inappropriate to put the decision on DC given the pressure and tension involved. You are the parent and the court will appreciate you taking the issue out of your child's hands and leaving all options open for the judge to choose between.

Fireflygal · 06/08/2021 17:28

You usually have to submit proof of mediation before court or he has sign off on the basis that previous mediation hasn't worked.

Has he actually applied to court or just threatening? His case could be that your dc are distressed and fearful of 11+ and you are pushing for something that isn't in their best interests. At nearly 11 a Cafcass officer will make a determination on their maturity. If judged to be emotional mature their views will count.

I think it depends on how much you think grammar school will positively impact them vs putting them through the conflict of court. However it could be that your ex is using the 11+ as a trojan horse to change residency which is why you need to reassure your dc that you are open to all options about schools in your area.

RandomMess · 06/08/2021 17:35

I read it that what the ex wants is majority care of the DC and them to attend a school local to him in order to achieve it. It's not about the grammar school it's about him mostly likely gaining control over the op and being able to demand maintenance from her....

You know because he's abusive and will never let get go of seeking revenge.

category12 · 06/08/2021 17:50

Could you look at getting someone independent, such as a family counsellor/child's advocate, to have some sessions with your dc to see if they can then feel able to state what they want? They would probably benefit from the support anyway with their father undermining their self-esteem.

thankyouforbeingafriend · 06/08/2021 18:03

He has applied for court already and Cafcass have interviewed us both - they have recommended mediation but waiting to see what court's legal advisor will say. This is absolutely about more than just the schooling, but this is his route in to get primary custody. He has never stopped looking for revenge.

DC is having private counselling at the moment and support through school. I've been very open about all their options for school (and also with my ex) but he has refused to discuss anything beyond wanting the school in his area.

OP posts:
Whydidimarryhim · 06/08/2021 18:06

Hi op hopefully he will take the 11 plus. It does give options.,
You want the best for him and are clearly not a pushy parent.
My son had tuition. In fact I only know two children that passed without it but they were doing the Bond 11 plus on line weekly.
None of the schools in my area prepare a child for 11 plus.
The verbal and non verbal reasoning need looking at.
I did the practice papers and also got a maths tutor once a week for 10 weeks. My son would do the Maths questions and the ones he got wrong he went over with the tutor.
You ex is yet another abuser - using his child to get back at you.
What decent human being does this.
Sad bastard.

user16395699 · 06/08/2021 20:55

I've tried to back off and keep things as light as I can these last few months, but as he is so pushy I think this is just pushing DC into agreeing with whatever he wants.

What your son needs and wants is for you to step up as his parent and make the tough choices for him, rather than being put in the middle and having to watch one parent get upset whatever he does.

He has basically already told you that what he wants is for you to make the decision instead of putting him in the middle.

Backing off isn't really helping and by doing so you're denying him the chance to do anything other than what dad demands - because you're taking away any other option. It's got nothing to do with being a "pushy parent", it's about safeguarding the needs of a child with one abusive parent.

Backing off and giving dad control isn't really that helpful when dad doesn't have his best interests at heart and is just using him as a weapon. It's not that your son is choosing to follow dad's path, but that you're surrendering him to dad's control and he has lost any alternatives.

He doesn't need you to back off from parenting, he needs to feel that you have his back and will be the one to take the flak for tough decisions not him.

He also stopped supporting DC in doing tuition when at his house, and told them that they weren't smart enough to do the test.

I can't see that you've said how you responded to this. Did you correct it? Explain that dad should not have said that and it was wrong? Explain that dad was behaving badly because he wanted to upset mum, and you're sorry that dad hurt him instead? Remind him it's not his fault this is happening? Do anything to rebuild his confidence? Tell him that you believe in him?

Or did you brush it away / minimise / make excuses to try and avoid 'conflict'?

Bigger picture aside, I'd be concerned that giving in to cancelling tuition when he's with you, giving in to not sitting the exam, backing off and letting dad drive what happens - you're basically communicating that you agree with dad that he's too stupid.

"We're still going to do the practise and sit the test, because I want you to have lots of options open to you. Dad was wrong to call you stupid, because it was a hurtful thing to say and it's not true. When you're with me we will do practise together and when you're with dad you might do different things. That's ok."

Or whatever, but that's the kind of messaging he needs to receive from you. Along with praise and encouragement.

Big picture, I agree with pp that he should sit the exam. By not doing so it closes down his options and hands his abusive dad additional control/power.

He probably won't thank you at the time, no, but you have to be clear and open with him. Explain that you are making this decision because he is smart and capable and you want him to have as many options as possible. Explain that you will tell dad you have made the decision and you will deal with it. He is not in trouble. Be consistent.

If he is distressed about tuition you work on restoring the self-esteem his dad has trashed.

For him to feel able to make his own choices even if they are different to what his dad wants, he needs to feel safe, secure and protected. He may also need more support to see where he has choices and to have a framework for decision-making based on what he wants rather than what he thinks dad wants - that's the consequence of being controlled through coercion and he will struggle to communicate his views in a court process without those skills.

Give him lots of opportunities at home with you to make choices about small things that have nothing to do with dad. Ask him what he liked or didn't like about things that are happening at home. Ask what he might like done differently.

He might not know how to answer those questions at first but keep giving him those ideas to mull over. By asking them in situations where he has choices it will help him to learn to recognise the link between the situation and the idea of choices.

But all about small trivial safe things. It's a way to help teach him to recognise what he likes/dislikes and what he wants/doesnt want, as well as to be more able to recognise situations where he has choices he could communicate. As opposed to now where nothing feels like a choice, it's about doing what dad likes/avoiding what dad dislikes, and therefore he struggles to recognise when he should have choices or what to do.

Slowly but surely you get to teach him skills (and confidence) to overcome and break free of dad's coercive control without the conflict. That will set him up to one day feel able to say "no, I don't want to see dad today because he treats me badly" - rather than feeling he has no choice but to see him. It will also make any court processes where he is asked for his views more manageable for him.

Learning how to understand when you have choices and how to make them is a really tough thing to learn after being subjected to coercive control, especially for a child. But you have the power to do something about that.

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