Horrible relationship with controlling DM

[MeridasMum]

I had a long and very helpful thread on here a couple of years ago called (something like) AIBU to devastate my DM?

DM has always been very controlling and, when DH and I suggested she take a break from looking after our DCs while she was recovering from cancer (she wasn’t thinking about their safety and a couple of extremely dangerous situations had occurred because she wasn’t paying attention), she absolutely FREAKED OUT.
In short, she punished and terrorised me (it sounds so exaggerated and dramatic but it’s honestly how it felt) for approx 7 months. Screaming down the phone at me, using all her old controlling tricks, sending flying monkeys, ridiculing me, emotionally manipulating my DCs….).

Advice here was to stick to my guns, don’t attend every argument I’m invited to (I loved that one), go grey rock, etc. Many of you shared similar stories about how their DMs did this but all came round in the end.

It’s been 3 years and our relationship is horrible!

She barely looks me in the eye, never calls or texts unless she absolutely has to, turns on the guilt triggers (she knows me so well), ignores me when I speak (not always, but enough to make her point). I am expected to ‘fix’ our relationship single handedly when, to be honest, I don’t really want to. If she met me half way, I’d feel better about being a dutiful daughter but I massively resent the fact that I do all the running, make all the phone calls, do all the inviting for visits, keep pleasant conversation going despite her rudeness, etc.

Not only that but her behaviour has actually brought up ‘old wounds’ that I hadn’t thought about for a long time:
⁃ She was often an absent mum when I was a young child, she never went without her ‘me time’ or her friendships and socialising, often to my detriment (I wore a house key around my neck from the age of 8)
⁃ She constantly checked my food intake, regularly told me I looked pregnant, she was (and still is) a competitive under-eater
⁃ Nothing I’ve done is ever ‘quite right’. It’s always ‘almost right’ and she praises me for that but if it’s not how she does it, there’s disapproval. If she feels strongly about something and I don’t change, she goes nuclear (screaming etc that I mentioned earlier)
⁃ Some of her rage became physical when I was a teen/young adult. For example, she’d grab me by the hair and pull me about (this only stopped when I did it back to her, twice. I still feel horrible about that, not necessarily guilty; it’s just a terrible memory). This has never been discussed as I know she would deny it (trust me, she would)
⁃ A memorable phrase when I wouldn’t do what she wanted was “no problem, I always get you to do what I want eventually”
⁃ My dad wasn’t any better (I’ve been groomed by DM to believe his was the only abuse I suffered). At 19 years old, he pulled up my dressing gown, exposing my nakedness, to smack my bare bottom because I was going on holiday with my boyfriend (now husband), he tried to push me down stairs when I told him I was pregnant with our first daughter, and so much more. He is now dead so I’m free of that to a certain extent.
To be very fair and balanced, my DM was very loving for much of the time. I got lots of ‘I love yous’. In fact, she said (and seems to believe) that she loves me more than any mother could ever love their child. She absolutely believes that.

So to now.

She still refuses to call me and when I do, she has this voice that says “I’m depressed and it’s your fault, ask me what’s wrong, fix this”. I don’t. I’m breezy and pretend I don’t notice. The thing is, she’s so good at making me feel guilty and I do, very much.

There has never been an apology for any of this.

I am looking for a private therapist to help me but everyone local to me has such a long waitlist. In the meantime, I’m a wreck - anxiety is killing me, my amazing husband and kids can feel the angst coming from me, I’m a chatty person but no longer want to talk, I feel awful; it actually feels physical. It’s affecting me at work, it’s affecting my sleep, my life is falling apart, I overeat, I drink too much, the list goes on.

I know about the stately homes thread and I do pop onto it from time to time.

Give me a kick up the arse, give me a pep talk, anything. I don’t know what I need but I need something from you lovely wise people, please.

One more thing - I can’t go NC. I know some will advise me to. I honestly don’t think I could live with the guilt. I was NC with DF on and off (DM always insisted we got ‘back together’ - she’d divorced him so he became my problem to deal with) and I still live with awful guilt about him dying alone, his alcoholism and his loneliness towards the end of his life.

Please don't feel guilty. Your father died alone because of his actions, not yours.

Look inside yourself. Can you truly say you have done everything possible to better your relationship with your mother?

If so, don't feel guilty for going NC if that is what you need to be able to live your life without her affecting you and yours to the extent she currently does

I know going NC is hard but you have to look after yourself and will help you even if it's for a few months. You need a break from her.

I have done the same and it's now been years. She still doesn't accept blame.

OP, you really, really, need therapy to help free you of all this inappropriate guilt and sense of obligation that is trapping you in a poisonous relationship with your toxic mother.
You have been groomed and brainwashed by her - she knows exactly which buttons to press to trigger your guilt and fear, and keep you dancing on her string.
There are therapists who work online - you don’t need to wait for a local one.
Why do you feel unable to go nc? What’s the worst that could happen? You get to live a life free of the witch who is dragging you down and destroying your self esteem and happiness- it would be excellent!
And as for all her fake protestations of love - talk is cheap. It’s actions that count. She was lying and gaslighting you. A loving mother does not engage in ANY of the behaviours you describe.
For what it’s worth, OP, I went nc with my toxic mother when I was 33. I never regretted it for a minute, was delighted to be rid of her and didn’t even attend her funeral, years later.

Give me a kick up the arse All right. You cannot continue to do the same thing and expect a different outcome. There is only one person you can influence. There is only one person you can change, and that is you.

You are an adult. You are not obliged to have anything to do with her whatsoever. She abused you as a child, and she abuses you still.

Get some counselling from someone who really understands FOG and then, when you are ready, then you can go NC.

Sorry, another saying yes, do go nc. Bar anxiety and becoming an even bigger people pleaser, what is she bringing to your life? How is your relationship with her affecting your children’s’ view of the mother/child dynamic? Why do you want to improve your relationship? Because she makes you feel like you should? Why? This is her fault, not yours. Don’t forget that she has created this situation, not you.

Thanks for commenting.

I don't disagree with any of this and I hope that counselling will help me cope with major decisions that I might have to make.

Incidentally, how do I find a counsellor who knows about FOG and controlling relationships? I hadn't thought about going further afield geographically. Is there a national database?

Although she MUST know what she does and what she has done, it's honestly like she doesn't (I know that doesn't make sense but it's like she has no idea that she hasn't been a perfect mother). It is this lack of awareness that makes me feel it'd be cruel to cut her off and I couldn't cope with the guilt of denying her access to a relationship with me and DCs

You’ll never be free of her unless you go NC until she dies.

The therapy will hopefully help you determine that you are the most important person in all this and that you’d have no reason to feel any guilt at all going NC. She can’t change.

She sounds absolutely vile and does not deserve you and you lovely family in her life. You deserve so so so much more OP.

Although she MUST know what she does and what she has done, it's honestly like she doesn't (I know that doesn't make sense but it's like she has no idea that she hasn't been a perfect mother).

She doesn't and she never will. Even the most self aware person - and she is very, very far from that - has aspects of their personality that they are completely unaware of. Look up the Johari window.

From your OP there is a disconnect - she told you she loved you frequently but her behaviour was anything but loving. Therefore, in your child's mind, it must have been your fault that she behaved badly...because she loved you, right? Wrong.

Have a look at this article for a better understanding of why you feel the way you do and how you can challenge your own self perception.

OP, her lack of awareness suggests she is a narcissist. They are totally self obsessed, will never accept responsibility for their faults (they don’t believe they have any!) and will always blame someone else - in this case, you, for everything.
If you want to try an online therapist, they usually have a preliminary discussion with you to see if they are appropriate for you and can help you, before starting a course of treatment.
That is when you check they are aware of FOG, toxic parents, gaslighting, narcissism, etc. You discuss your goals with them - you could make clear that you want help to go nc, not to reconcile and go back to being your mother’s emotional punchbag and scapegoat.
Only if you feel they understand the situation, and if you feel you can trust and work with them, do you proceed further. Good luck!

If you want an actual kick up the ass - you’re allowing this woman to dominate your life to the extent it’s affecting your mental health, your kids can see you being a wreck - you said she’s even been abusive to them too??

Stop saying you can’t go NC. You won’t. It’s a choice. You will feel guilty? So fucking what? You feel like shit anyway. Stop sacrificing yourself and your well-being to this woman who will never ever change.

@Babdoc Thanks for the info re counselling. I suppose I didn't ever consider 'interviewing' potential counsellors.

I do think she has narcissistic tendencies. She cannot ever be seen to be wrong (and god help anyone who might suggest otherwise).

@SilverRoe Thanks, I do need to hear that.

The 'abusive' behaviour to the kids was emotional manipulation - trying to influence them with "poor me" behaviour. On more than one occasion, she has made DC cry with this. She denied it of course - DC must have been lying!!!!
Now she is never alone with them. I don't allow it (although that has never been stated to her - the fall-out from that would be too much for me to bear).

I read the article linked to an earlier post - about core beliefs. It was a real eye-opener and lightbulb moment.
My core beliefs are 1) I am not worthy to be a fully functioning adult and 2) her happiness is solely dependent on me doing exactly as she wants. It won't be easy to change but I see it now

You can't change her, nothing you do will ever be right/good enough. Stop trying. I read on here about 'dropping the rope' and found the concept so useful. I think that with counsellors I think it's about the quality of the relationship you feel able to build, so as someone said up thread, speak to a few and see how you feel about them. Can do on zoom, teams etc

Counselling needs to be a good “fit” between therapist and patient, for it to work.
You need to agree on goals and methods etc, and be able to trust them, otherwise you are just wasting your money, and even worse, risk getting bad advice. You want a qualified professional, not someone who will spout fluffy nonsense and tell you to forgive darling mummy and reconcile with her!
You used the word “interviewing” - that’s exactly what you need to do when selecting your therapist. It’s two way, as they need to be sure they can help you before accepting you as a patient.
Think carefully about what you want to achieve from the process, before starting to contact possible practitioners.
Good luck, OP. The right person will help transform your life. You have so much to gain, and nothing to lose - except your toxic mother, and the burden of inappropriate guilt.

Give me a kick up the arse, give me a pep talk, anything

Okay you asked for it OP, exposing your children to this makes you just as abusive as your mother. You, an adult, cannot cope with this woman's behaviour yet you expose your children to that and expect them to cope. How's that for an eye opener? You need to go NC, anything less is poisoning you and your DC emotional well-being, you are using your DC as a human shield to protect you from your mother's emotional manipulation and to stop you feeling guilty. Those children deserve better.

You will find your inner strength in time, but you need professional help.

You don't stand a chance of recovery unless you go NC. She is just a pure toxic force in your life. She has to be removed from it.

@Dontbeme

Give me a kick up the arse, give me a pep talk, anything

Okay you asked for it OP, exposing your children to this makes you just as abusive as your mother. You, an adult, cannot cope with this woman's behaviour yet you expose your children to that and expect them to cope. How's that for an eye opener? You need to go NC, anything less is poisoning you and your DC emotional well-being, you are using your DC as a human shield to protect you from your mother's emotional manipulation and to stop you feeling guilty. Those children deserve better.

I hear you but look upthread: they are no longer alone with her, ever.

But I do hear this, I do worry about what they understand from this relationship

It doesn't matter that they aren't alone with her. The stress she causes you is damaging them. Being in the presence of such a manipulative, horrible, gaslighting woman is damaging them. Seeing you succumb to emotional blackmail and guilt is damaging them.

Go NC and protect your children from this awful, awful toxic woman.

Challenging your core beliefs is so so hard. But you’re already doing it, bit by bit. And it gets WAY easier to build new core beliefs once you’re totally away from the source of the shitty old ones.

And those core beliefs you mention? They are HER beliefs. Ones she’s built in you. They don’t have to remain yours. You actually get to choose. I promise this is true. You CAN choose your core beliefs about yourself. Yours. Nice ones, kind ones, ones where you’re worthy, safe and loved.

It takes time but it can be done.

Look she doesn’t give a shit about how you feel about anything, she probably doesn’t care much about you at all tbh. If this was your DH you would feel totally justified about leaving. You put up with this shit because its the secret hope somewhere that she does really love you and its fixable but some people aren’t really capable of it. My mother professed to love me all the time while conducting a campaign of psychological warfare on me. Completely destroyed any self esteem or self worth I had. I assume you love your children, would you do that to them? Why would you do that to someone you actually love.

My core beliefs are 1) I am not worthy to be a fully functioning adult and 2) her happiness is solely dependent on me doing exactly as she wants.

1. that's a core belief
2. isn't, although it is an irrational belief as defined by Albert Ellis; to paraphrase - "other people are responsible for my happiness. If I'm not happy someone else is to blame."

I see you can’t go no contact with your mother, @MeridasMum, but you could gradually lower contact with her - stop don’t contact her as often, don’t issue as many invitations - do things on your terms.

Basically, it sounds as if she is using every contact and visit as opportunities to treat you badly - and you have NO obligation to facilitate that, or to allow your children to see it.

You could also look at how you can put limits on the contact/visits you do allow - if she starts being nasty on the phone, say “oops - someone at the door - I’ll ring you back”, and then don’t ring back - or wait a few days longer than you would usually have waited. Set visits for neutral territory - the park - and have an appointment to go to after an hour, so you have an excuse to leave.

You are a good person, and you deserve to be treated well, not badly. You did nothing to deserve the way you were treated as a child - that is 100% your parents’ fault. You do deserve to heal yourself from the wounds that abuse has left.

I wish I could come and give you a huge, proper-mum hug right now.

You can never win.

Guilt will always be placed there by her, you just get to choose how much you expose yourself (and your family) to it.