Page 2 | Do I leave?

TheFoundations · 02/08/2021 18:16

I agree it’s cheating but he claims there’s no feelings involved and he doesn’t want her, he wants me and our family etc

Having sexual relations with somebody isn't cheating, then, if you don't have feelings for them? That's new.

Feelingoktoday · 02/08/2021 18:17

He knows where the boundaries are - we all do even people that have affairs. He just doesn’t care. He doesn’t even care if you know about it. He really doesn’t care. I’m sorry OP. But you can’t live like this. Because he doesn’t care, he is never going to stop. It will get worse. He knows you will let him cross the boundary as you have already forgiven him many times. It will eat away at you. You will be depressed, suffer from anxiety issues, confidence issues. Etc. You cannot tolerate this and you need to ask him to leave. You have too.

feeficken · 02/08/2021 18:19

A friendship is usually not a secret and is open to scrutiny by others, especially if the others are your OH. I agree with what’s been said it seems it’s an emotional affair and my stance is it’s cheating, there is a major misconception that an affair has to be physical it doesn’t and anyone will tell you even in a physical affair it’s not the physical part that hurts the most it’s the emotional connection that gets formed.

seekingadvice23 · 02/08/2021 18:21

he says things like “I don’t know what I’d do without you”, “as long as you’re happy I’m happy” etc and they have spoken about masturbation…

This would be the end for me plus spending money on her. Especially while you are ttc, so disrespectful!

Whirlywooo · 02/08/2021 18:38

Urgh, I've been where you are OP. It IS cheating. It doesn't matter that they've never met. Sending her parcels, 'I don't know what I'd do without you', secret phone calls, it'll never stop.

I wouldn't bother with suggesting he moves to the spare room. He's had numerous chances to stop. Kick him out. Yes it's messy and horrible at first but you'll be so much happier in the long run.

Do you really want to live like this forever- constantly wondering what he's up to? Never feeling good about yourself. It really damages your self esteem. I turned into someone I didn't even recognise. I went from someone who was happy with life, relatively care-free to someone who was crazily checking my exH's phone - each time finding more evidence of sexting and cheating. I carried on checking his accounts after we split - the first thing he did was get in touch with a few of the women he'd been talking to, telling them how much he'd missed them, what I witch I was, asking if they could meet up. He even put a photo on facebook of all his belongings in a storage unit saying 'look at what my life is now' - ever the victim, never once admitting it was all his own doing. He even told a few of them I was just after his money - that was just funny and also sad on his part - he had moved into my house, didn't pay a penny towards anything and was massively in debt!

I would have half-understood it all if I'd treated him like shit but I'd worshipped the ground he walked on. To this day I'm still angry with myself with how I let myself be treated like that for 4 years. Don't waste any more of your precious time being treated like this. You and your son deserve so much better. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Original poster

Lolobird87 · 02/08/2021 20:11

@feeficken

A friendship is usually not a secret and is open to scrutiny by others, especially if the others are your OH. I agree with what’s been said it seems it’s an emotional affair and my stance is it’s cheating, there is a major misconception that an affair has to be physical it doesn’t and anyone will tell you even in a physical affair it’s not the physical part that hurts the most it’s the emotional connection that gets formed.

You have summed it up perfectly. This hurts far more than the sexting did. He’s making me feel like I’m crazy because he has no feelings for her and they’re “just friends”.

OP posts:

Crikeyalmighty · 02/08/2021 22:15

I always think a one night stand would bother me far less than emotional affairs. I know everyone is different but i genuinely feel this way having been on the receiving end of Hs emotional affair . It devastated me

Pessismistic · 02/08/2021 22:54

Op I hope you are not tcc still. He has feelings for her otherwise he wouldn't call her and tell her misses her. he is just doing what he wants and its your feelings he doesn't care about. He probably tells you want you want to hear because he is afraid of losing his life and dc. After what he's has already done in the past he would never dare risk losing you but he is risking it all daily. it is your decision as its your life but please think long and hard about it as he won't change he doesn't have to because you keep forgiven him. You are constantly going to be checking on him what happens if this happens again with someone else closer to home and it goes physical then what for you and your dc. Good luck

wookneecorn · 03/08/2021 00:35

He will know that he is cheating and claiming to not know that this is unacceptable behaviour is an excuse to continue an affair. He may well come up with other excuses.

'If he cared at all about your marriage he'd have cut contact with her completely already.''

He'd have not contacted the OW inappropriately at all if he cared

CustardyCreams · 03/08/2021 05:01

He is unquestionably cheating on you. Ask him if he’d be happy for his mum to see all those messages? Because if it is just an innocent friendship then that would be fine wouldn’t it.

I’m really sorry OP, I think the reason you are letting him gaslight you is understandable; you love him and thought you had a future and we’re building a family with him, so you want to believe him.

I think If you let him carry on with spinning his lies you will be very damaged, because he is messing with your head, and it is undermining your ability to see the true situation. If you stepped away, by kicking him out, I think it wouldn’t take you long to realise this is definitely an affair and completely unacceptable.

Magicstars · 03/08/2021 08:30

How did you get on speaking to him OP?

Your H may never accept that he’s cheated- my ex doesn’t & still tells me nearly 2 years later, how I ought to have forgiven him! He also tells me other people feel the same way.
It can be very confusing.

CloseYourEyesAndSee · 03/08/2021 08:35

If you don't follow through on your threat to leave if he did it again then this will be your life forever more. He's not going to change.

KurtWilde · 03/08/2021 09:11

Because you forgave the other indiscretions, he knows you're likely to forgive this one too. That's the risk when you decide to carry on after cheating. He's taking the piss, and this is no way to live with the constant phone checking. If you don't have anxiety now, you will, believe me. This kind of thing erodes at your well being.

bigbaggyeyes · 03/08/2021 09:15

You already know he's lying and emotionally cheating on you. Don't being another child into this relationship. My advice would be to speak to a solicitor, find out what you need to do legally and walk away from this relationship. Even if he convinces you he's changed 'again' you'll never fully trust him and will be constantly checking up on him. That's no way to live

Fruitandnuts · 03/08/2021 09:26

After reading your post the part that stands out the most is his attention going to her. Instead of putting that energy into your relationship he is throwing so much energy and effort her way. How on earth can he be happy in your relationship if he is putting so much time and energy and effort her way? Sending a parcel is further effort and energy and probably he is feeling great about doing so. He could have used that money to by you flowers or something to show how much you mean to him. His attention is going to making her feel special, texting and checking his phone, that means his mind is preoccupied on her. That would make me feel so sad.

Masking it as some friendship? I have male friends and you don't discuss sexual details with platonic friends. It has crossed a boundary and since you allowed him to be friends he doesn't see any issue, he's normalised it now that he doesn't even see a problem and its not going to just end. Sending her a gift has cemented it further.
Time to call his behaviour out, he'll minimise but this is not normal. Imagine if you had this contact with a male 'friend' i don't think he would be so accepting

JengaCupboard · 03/08/2021 09:39

Unfortunately I can relate to this wholly; not the online/gaming avenue, but principally this IS an emotional affair. Do you think it would be the same if they lived 10 mins apart? It's totally circumstantial that they haven't met, nothing more.

This 'no feelings involved' it also absolute bullshit I can assure you. Do you message somebody constantly that you don't have feelings for? Do you tell them that you miss them and actively wish away precious family time in order to speak with them again, if you don't have feelings? Send them secret gifts?? No, you don't.

The more you allow this, and forgive, and threaten to leave and then don't the more he will just assume that you will forgive him the next time, and the next. It's a seedy,. pathetic emotional affair, regardless of the origins. Fantasy character gaming doesn't make it any less wrong. Discussing masturbation? How much more involved does it need to be?

You said yourself you are now watching him constantly. From bitter experience it is no way to live; it will be hugely damaging to your mental health and self esteem over time, and is frankly exhausting.

You need to leave this, because it won't get better. There are better people out there that wouldn't even consider pulling this shit. Reading forums like this can be very helpful, but can also seem like every man under the sun is messing around in some capacity. But there are good people out there. Stop wasting your time with one that isn't.

carnationqueen · 03/08/2021 09:51

@Lolobird87

This is my first post and I’m really nervous about opening up about my relationship but I need advice and don’t feel I have anyone I can speak to in ‘real life’ about it.

I have been with my husband for 12 years, married 6. We have a son, 4 and have been trying for a second child for over a year now. We have just started getting blood tests etc.

When we were TTC my son in 2016 I found some messages on my husband’s phone to someone online indicating they had been having cyber sex. I confronted him, he claimed it had just felt like porn but appreciated I considered it cheating and promised it wouldn’t happen again.

About 3 months ago I snooped on his phone and found online sexting between him and a different girl but as “characters” (he does this, she does that etc rather than first person). He is big into online gaming and I’m sure that’s how he met this person. Again, we had a big row, I threatened to leave and kept him hanging for a few days before I told him once more and I’m gone. He said he understood. He convinced me he felt nothing for this person, they were just gaming buddies - even showed me their messages where she was saying the same - she’s married, trying to get pregnant etc, lives in another country, nothing going on. It was just building a character relationship and he “thought I wouldn’t mind” 🙄 I accepted it and said they could carry on a friendship but no more.

Last week we went on a family holiday. We came home and I checked his phone. He had called her twice while we were away, once while my son and I were swimming and another while he was supposed to be calling his mum. I found messages about how much they missed each other. I was not aware he was communicating with her at all while we were away and felt this was quite deceitful. Counting down the days until we got home etc which is sad considering I thought we were having a nice family holiday.

Over the last week I find I am constantly checking his phone in the morning when he is asleep. He stays awake until 3am most nights (gaming, chatting - mainly to her I think) so sleeps late which gives me a chance to check everything from the night before. I’ve found out from reading messages and finding a receipt that he sent her a parcel of British food/sweets a few weeks ago, costing £30 to post (!!!). He didn’t tell me about any of this.

I now find I watch him while we eat dinner or watch tv before our son goes to bed and he’s always texting. Last night I asked him “who are you texting?”. He claimed it was his friends trying to arrange a get together. When I checked his phone this morning I found a hasty text sent by him about the same time I asked to his friend group (almost like he thought he should in case I followed up with questions about when he was meeting them) but also a CONSTANT stream of texts to this girl.

I feel like half of them are just friendly and they constantly call themselves “best friends”, there are no “I love you”s or anything but the chat gets very flirty, he says things like “I don’t know what I’d do without you”, “as long as you’re happy I’m happy” etc and they have spoken about masturbation…

I guess my question is would you consider this cheating? The spark in our marriage is certainly long gone and reading these messages to her makes me realise what I’m not getting from him. I’m not saying it’s all his fault, we have a lot to work on together but I feel like I deserve better than this. Is this my opportunity to walk away and start fresh? What would you do?

Hi sorry to hear what's happening. Horrible way to treat you. It all feels seedy and he is treating you like a idiot. Get rid of him. You are better off on your own. Better to break up your family than live with a cheater. It's his fault. Hugs to you. Hope you get strong and realise you are better off on your own than with this man.

Disneycharacter · 03/08/2021 10:12

He's lying and cheating. Of course he feels something for her.

layladomino · 03/08/2021 15:32

I felt so angry reading your op, on your behalf. He is treating you disgracefully. He tells this woman he can't wait to be home again when he's on holiday - so time online with her is more important to him than time with his child on holiday?

Even if he thinks it's online and no feelings and doesn't count (and by the way he knows that it's wrong) - you have told him it isn't OK by you and he promised not to do it again. Then broke his promise. Several times.

But let's face it, this is cheating by any definition. He's engaging in sexual and emotional conversation with another woman. Tells her her misses her. Sends her presents. Phones her in secret. Lies to you about her. Prioritises time 'with' her over time with his wife and DC.

His lack of respect for you is shocking. And if he expects you to believe that it's reasonable behaviour then he's very stupid or he thinks you are.

Ask him how he would feel if you had done all these things with another man. Ask him how he would feel if what he's done becamse public knowledge - how does he think his family, workmates, friends would view his behviour?

I'm so sorry but he's treating you terribly and I think you need to start making steps to leave. He may promise you he won't do it again - but he's done that before hasn't he, and shown he doesn't mean it and is willing to lie in order to stop you leaving.

As it is right now, he has the home comforts, wife, someone to look after him and make life easier, someone to look after his DC, all looks good to the outside world. Then he has his bit on the side. I'd leave him to the bit on the side and start making your, and your DC's life, better.

You deserve so much better than him.

Original poster

Lolobird87 · 03/08/2021 23:14

I really appreciate everyone’s comments. It helps to know you all agree and see what he has done as cheating. There have been some comments that really hit home and I have reiterated to him - the attention and energy that was going into her that wasn’t being to me as an example. He absolutely knows how much he has hurt me. He claims he kept the friendship so secretive because he didn’t want me to get the wrong idea and that there are no feelings involved on either side. I have read the messages that he sent her to break it off and it’s clear from her side she has no interest but it doesn’t take away from the lying and the way I see he has prioritised this “friendship” over our relationship and our family.

We spoke at length last night until we were both emotionally shattered. It is our sons birthday tomorrow so I have agreed that he can stay in the spare room so our son can have a good birthday with us both and then we will go from there. We have been civil to each other today and he has gone out of his way to help prepare for our sons party tomorrow.

At this moment in time I don’t know what I want to do. I completely see that I should leave. I have told him that. I deserve so much better and I honestly don’t know if i will ever be able to trust him. If I go I know I will be fine, I have a great family who will 100% support me and my son and I don’t feel upset at all about the thought of being on my own. But… I don’t know if I’m ready to give up my family. It feels like a big decision and I need time to think it through. I appreciate most of you will probably think I’m being completely ridiculous, a push over, weak etc, and that’s ok. There are so many complex layers to a 12 year relationship. It will take me some time to decide, so for now I’m going to keep him at arms length until I figure out for myself what my next move is.

Thank you so much to everyone who commented. I feel like I’ve had a whole army in my corner, encouraging me to stand up for myself and not take his shit. I guess I will update you all of the outcome when I’ve decided what to do. Thanks again

OP posts:

Original poster

Lolobird87 · 28/03/2022 00:06

I don’t even know if anyone who commented previously will see this or not but I wanted to update. I finally left 🙂 6 weeks ago. I just couldn’t see a future for us anymore. He had been continuing to speak to a few different women online. I asked him to stop because it made me uncomfortable but he claimed it was nothing and made no moves to stop. I also asked him to put more time and effort into our relationship which he didn’t do.

So I left. Just before Valentine’s Day. And now I am planning a future for my son and I and it feels incredible. I am making decisions for me, putting myself first and finally getting some time for myself when my husband takes my son for the day. I haven’t had time for myself in so long.

My husband continues to talk to these women. And new ones. And many of those ‘friendships’ have developed into more (yes I’ve snooped a couple of times). They are welcome to him. And in my mind it confirms what I suspected all along. He has made no effort to try and stop me leaving. None at all. It hurts a bit but more than anything I am grateful to be free and starting the next chapter of my life.

Thank you to everyone who commented and gave me the strength to know my worth.

OP posts:

LightSpeeds · 28/03/2022 00:25

He's treating you like rubbish. Get rid of him.

Honeyroar · 28/03/2022 00:31

Well done on finally leaving. I hope you have a wonderful future ahead and someone who will really care for/appreciate you. Leave your numpty husband to his dreamworld. He’s a fool not appreciating his family

RedWhiteOrBlue · 28/03/2022 00:32

@Lolobird87 WELL DONE! I know how much effort it takes to leave someone. You are doing brilliantly.

friendlycat · 28/03/2022 00:56

Well done you. You’ve got a much better future ahead of you. Good luck.