I'll never like my inlaws; can my marriage work?

[Chuckleberrie]

I've been married for 8 years and we have recently been struggling to make things work. We have been preparing for separation, but through marriage counselling, in the last 2 months, we appear to be unexpectedly reconciling.

We havent yet addressed the main elephant in the room however as we have been working through couple stuff- my inlaws. His mother is an awful, self absorbed person who cares little for anyone but herself. She made my life a misery after DC was born with her interfering and persistent cirticisms and expectations. She treats me as nothing more than a vessel for carrying grandchildren now, she's still rude and undermining. She talks at me constantly and when I talk back, she ignores me or starts a conversation up with someone else- this is to a point that even DH and SIL have to pull her up and tell her not to be rude to me. I hate her complany and she's always complaining that we won't go on holiday with them! They are wealthy and I am not, they make me feel like the poor relation and MIL will emphasise all the wonderful money fuelled experiences she's given her kids in comparison to my upbringing. It's vile. She's probably narcissistic.

FIL is subtly excluding of me, but little things like not giving me pocket money to save for the DCs. He will wait until he sees DH if I'm collecting the children and they ask for their weekly £2, like I'm some sort of money pincher. He's also made comments about protecting deposits and things in the past. He also once booked a 2 day event for him and DH to go to on my birthday when I was post-partum with 2 DCs and struggling. There is no care for me whatsoever. When I told them about DHs neglectful behaviour towards me and DCs, they told me I needed to allow him to have a life. They don't care about me at all. I am a commodity.

DH does not see any of this. He sees MILs behaviour but thinks I should find it comical, as apparently the rest of the family do. I however, do not find her narcissism in the least bit funny. Even when him and SIL pull her up on her rudeness towards me they laugh it off afterwards..."oh, she's so rude. Don't worry chuckleberrie, she does it to everyone... hahaha."

DHs parents have somewhat molecoddled him and so, although he doesn't see them every day, I believe they have far too much influence in his life. But mostly, i just don't want to be in their company, they don't care for me in the slightest. I find them condescending and disagreeable and awkward- conversation with them is a huge challenge and yet MIL will repeatedly compliment DH and swoon over how wonderful he is in comparison to little digs at me.

I'll never like them, but as they collect both DCs from school regularly and are very helpful with any extra childcare, I know I have to tolerate them. DH however can't understand why I'm happy for them to take care of DCs but don't want to spend any time with them. DCs enjoy going so I see no harm in them having a close relationship with them, but I personally don't want to.

I think deep down DH resents me for this. Can we still have a happy marriage if I don't like his parents?

"When I told them about DHs neglectful behaviour towards me and DCs, they told me I needed to allow him to have a life. They don't care about me at all. I am a commodity."

Isn't the bigger problem that your DH is neglectful to you and your DC? It sounds like there's a lot going on here, beyond the in-laws issue.

@BaileysforBreakfast

"When I told them about DHs neglectful behaviour towards me and DCs, they told me I needed to allow him to have a life. They don't care about me at all. I am a commodity."

Isn't the bigger problem that your DH is neglectful to you and your DC? It sounds like there's a lot going on here, beyond the in-laws issue.

I find it strange OP was even going to her in laws for such issues, it's the sort of thing you confide in with your own parents or counsellors, not to his own parents!!

OP, you must have been aware of this toxic dynamic before you married him but you still went ahead.
Could you and your DH go for counselling? The crux of the issue is that he's not supporting you as his wife and is allowing his family to treat you badly.

As stated clearly in the OP, we are already attending marriage counselling.

Why aren't you discussing this at counselling?

Thank you lots of helpful responses here.

As stated clearly in the OP, we have been working through other issues before we visit the inlaws one, as the counsellor wants to look at us first.

But you think this is the main elephant in the room?

Even if you can getcpast everything else, it this is the main issue how can it not been touched on at all?

Because the problem actually isn't your pil. It's your husband. This is an issue with you two.

I'd say she's working through things in the right order- laying the foundations and helping us communicate better, practice it before we then tackle the big issue.

I posted because I'm anxious about tackling the big issue and wondering what will happen when we do.

It a nut shell no it can’t. Their bad behaviour is minimised and ignored by the sound of it and it doesn’t sound like your husband wishes to change this. I would start an exit plan to be honest

There are a number of reasons why my ex husband and l split up. One of them was his families batshit, demanding and entitled ways. That he wouldn’t challenge and wanted me to suck up. I wouldn’t

You've posted about them before right? Something about paying for a kitchen and/or a car or something and them thinking of it as DH's and not yours?

They're clearly snobs who think their precious son has married beneath them. I don't blame you for wanting as little to do with them as possible. But I tend to agree with others - you can't rely on them for childcare and then expect to have no contact. I'd be inclined to be equally rude back. My PIL aren't at all like this but... they do have a tendency to say and do things that are really not okay and think they can get away with it. And DH is also the golden child. I just don't put up with it. I'm not rude, but I challenge their behaviour or choose to disengage and simply leave the room etc. Which DH supports. Eg, the pocket money one I'd be saying, "Ooh, FIL do you think that little working class me might steal my children's money?!" with a sarcastic grin. But that's me.

I'm not hugely confrontational as a rule, but have no problem whatsoever with setting boundaries in these sorts of situations.

Can you change childcare arrangements. I wouldn't want them involved at all.

How old are your dc? Seeing you treated so badly isn't good for them imo.

I wasn’t keen on my mil who sadly died in her 60’s— little things like commenting on a pile of ironing when I was working full time or implying I was the one making husband move away etc. My H did actually tell her what he thought of such comments - like yours though she was great with childcare. In the end I realised we would never really see eye to eye as she just wasn’t my kind of person but I just was pleasant to keep the peace and bitched to my H which he did understand- she drove him nuts too. In your case I would just try to have minimum contact personally but be pleasant when you do - even if you don’t feel
Like it

You need to decide what your own boundaries are. I would limit the grandchildren involvement to a very bare minimum. You might be out of pocket paying for childcare for a while but it's money well invested.

You are not going to be able to persuade the mother in law and at no point is she going to accept her fault. You have to accept that she is choosing to treat you badly and will not stop doing that. Even if she stops doing it directly to you she will do it behind your back to the grandkids and to your dh.

I agree that you cannot get involved in dictating to dh how he carries on his relationship with his mum. That has to be his decision.

You can definitely have a successful marriage but navigating horrible in laws will have a negative affect.

You are in charge of your own life and your kids life. You decide. If your husband can't see how corrosive his parents behaviour is then for me that would be a line in the sand. I couldn't live with someone who didn't prioritise me and our little family over his parents.

By far the biggest strain in my marriage are the ils. My solution is lowish contact while encouraging dh’s relationship with them.

Through counselling (and getting older) I’ve got a stronger sense of myself and I’m not as unsettled by them - it’s more like watching a comedy now. I’m nearly listening for the laugh track.

But low contact is absolutely key for me. I don’t think I’d have survived (never mind the marriage) if they were providing childcare and I had to interact with them several times a week.

I know on MN there’s a huge emphasis on dh problems and the duty of the spouse to put their partner first, and I don’t want to take from that. But I had an experience a few years ago when I realised that I couldn’t depend on dh for that and I had to make a decision about whether to leave or continue on, in full knowledge of his limitations. He’s got a lot better but I still would be very cautious because the cost to my mh was very high (I’m being vague because it’s a whole other thread).

My approach is to take action but say nothing. I look at the situation and figure out what is necessary and take steps but I don’t discuss it at all.

An easy example is around safety - mil was never left alone with my dc for very good reasons, but I never made a fuss about this. I just dallied a bit, hung around, stayed for another cup of tea, etc She has a good relationship with the dc but ultimately it’s on my terms.

It is manipulative and controlling of me but there are times when I’m the only rational adult (again, whole other thread) so I don’t invite argument or give anyone a chance to take offence. I just do what’s necessary to keep the dc safe.

It’s a bit harder to extract from a childcare situation but you could start making changes, such as a shift in your work arrangements so that you’re never available to do drop off/collection and that falls to your dh. It doesn’t have to be about taking a stand and forcing people to take up positions. Just start doing what suits you better, quietly.

But again, I’m speaking from the position of someone who felt that my relationship and marriage was worth saving. I’ve just put in place the terms that I need to make it workable. You may not feel that you want to live with a partner who isn’t supporting you, and that’s not an unreasonable choice.

what about a compromise. Your husband will take the kids to see them and you will go for big occasions? It something i did with my mil.

Dicks like your MIL get away with their behaviour because no one challenges their behaviour and th3 object of their derision is left to deal with it on their own. Phrases like 'it's just the way she is' minimises the hurt and damage you experience at the hands of this woman. Imagine if everyone rounded on her and put her in her place when she's rude and unpleasant? But that isn't happening and your DH isn't supporting you here as his wife and life partner although he knows it's going on. That will erode your marriage further if it continues.

Moving away, if at all possible, is your best option. Get out of her sphere and also minimise your children's contact. She may be playing nicely with them now but she eventually deride you to them. Using them for childcare is keeping her clamped to you.

I had the same situation but with my own DM. She got away with her toxic bullshit for decades. The only way to deal with her was NC. She did her best to influence my DD against me. Didn't work because she was already aware of the dysfunction in our family. Funnily enough golden child DB wouldn't back me up, probably looking to his inheritance, but ten years down the line, he is now NC with her and knocking on my door.

As Atilla has stated you will never reason or change this personality. Distance is your only weapon.

A marriage can survive awful in laws but only if the couple is reasonably on the same page about them.

In my case we have difficult in laws on both sides but they don't cause a particular problem within the marriage. This is because we both recognise them as an issue, whether they be an in law or a parent. So they are at least not a source of disagreement between us.

OP,

Your husband is the main problem here.

He treats you badly.
His parents treat you badly.

Common theme.

In all likelihood they will speak badly about you to your children.

I think you should let you marriage finish.

Your husband is a weak twat that stands by while your treated appallingly.

Source other childcare and minimise the time you children spend and you go NC with them.

This elephant isn't going anywhere.

You are wasting your life with him and his awful family.

Never really got on with or like my in-laws and the feeling was mutual . After about 12 years of tolerating them , my husband and I had a huge blow up about them and their behaviour and he decided that he needed to tell them the issues to see if it could be sorted . Their answer was to go NC with us both initially but after about a month they got back in touch with dh , he then saw them a few times a month alone for a couple of hours . FIL died several years ago and last year I finally agreed to speak to MIL again as a favour to dh so we now have a kind of frosty truce . Dh and I have been married for over 30yrs and are very happy .Our dc ( now adult) have very little to do with her which has been their own choice . So yes it’s perfectly easy , with the right husband , to have a good marriage without having a relationship with his family .

The bit I'm confused about is why this hasn't been raised in counselling- especially as you were due to split up at one point?

I'd thrash it out there. Reduce kids contact to one day a week and arrange activities the kids want to do on any other days where u need cover.

Agree your DH is minimising and just because he can see the humour in her ways doesn't mean that you should.

He needs to have your back or it's doomed as you'll resent him so much.

I also think if it's the elephant in the room it should be addressed in counselling but in the end only the two of you know if it's a deal breaker. Personally if my dh wanted to go nc with my mum (or parents when my dad was alive), we wouldn't have stayed together. Theyre your parents! And I agree that it's probably that he sounds off about you to them, as people do, and maybe he sticks up for you too, but mud sticks.

If your H is the golden child and his S the scapegoat, which of your children will follow which I wonder? Because you know it's going to happen.

You have been assigned the role of the “scapegoated spouse” in this enmeshed and dysfunctional narcissistic family system and there is a lot of “triangulation” going on that has eroded your marriage. Your DH will also have narcissistic traits.

Google a few of those terms and you will soon understand some of the dynamics.

As others have said distance and emotional detachment from the IL and your DH relationship with the IL is the way forward.

He is currently unable (unwilling?) to see what’s going on and he will (unconsciously?) throw you under the bus time and time again when it comes to his parents.

Don’t waste your breath with him, don’t bother speaking to IL and expecting them to change - as PP have said it’s futile and inadvertently fuels the toxic system that is attacking you. Just take quiet action - don’t go to see them, don’t talk about them, ask your DH not to talk about them to you. Leave him to manage them all on his own. You are a nice buffer to him absorbing their toxic energy which saves him. They will be delighted when you are not in their lives. They probably won’t even notice for months and will be relieved.

Never let them have your DCs alone. DH can visit with them without you - I suspect that he will do this much less often when you don’t go.

If you want to give your marriage the best chance of another go - remove yourself from the ILs and concentrate on your relationship.