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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At a crossroads

29 replies

wisteria90 · 19/07/2021 00:09

Firstly, I'm so sorry for the long post!

I'm 31, and have been with my DH for 6 years, married for 3. We have one DS who is 2, and one dog.

In the time we've been together, we've done an awful lot together. We've done a lot of travelling, gone through a renovation. we've moved house multiple times, (most recently last month). We've worked in demanding careers in different time zones - both working in the U.K. but a lot of my calls are with teams in the east, and he works with the west coast, so will work well into the evening.

We parent together well; he's a great dad, very hands on. He's great around the house and helps out a lot. We get on really well - same sense of humour. I know I'm very lucky in many ways. We're best friends and a good team. But emotionally there is nothing in our relationship- and zero effort from him.

When I met him, he was divorced. He's 5 years older than me, and had been with his ex wife for several years, but married for a very short period. She had met someone else shortly after getting married. She told him that they felt that they were more like friends. Because the first few years of our relationship were so passionate, I thought nothing of this. But now I can see that our relationship is absolutely following the same pattern - and he seems absolutely fine with letting it.

Since getting pregnant 3 years ago, I've felt a real shift in our relationship. He used to be incredibly attentive and affectionate. He had a lot of respect for me. When I got pregnant, I noticed things began to shift. He stopped asking how I was, he stopped being affectionate. He was 110% there practically, but the emotional side of our relationship just disappeared, and was left to me to drive.

When our son arrived, things obviously got worse and they've just never improved. For the last 2 years our intimacy has decreased (once every other month). He never kisses me, touches me. I always instigate affection. I've tried to get through the last 3 years by telling myself it's largely down to having a young child and feeling tired.

The last couple of years have been tough. On the surface we look happy, but I'm lonely and miss intimacy, affection and love. I miss feeling loved. I miss hugs, kisses- and being considered. We've spoken about this countless times- I've been very open about my feelings and I've really tried to work with him to identify the root cause. We did counselling last year which helped. He seems to understand that I need more, and he wants to give it- but has yet to put any of this into action. I haven't really seen any effort to invest in our relationship in anyway.

I'm finally back to my pre baby weight. In the last few months I've been getting some lovely compliments from friends about my appearance. But my confidence is taking an absolute beating. After 3 years of this, it just feels soul destroying to continually have to drive this. It's soul destroying to always initiate intimacy, to feel rejected frequently. I've tried everything... I've taken the passive approach of just gently reassuring and giving him time. I've tried to be more open and communicative. I've really tried everything, and I'm just not getting it back.

I think for him his priorities are 1) baby 2) dog 3) work 4) his bikes 5) me. I know I'll never be no. 1, but it would be fantastic to be no 3!

Is this normal? What more can I do? At what point do I say "enough is enough"?

I really struggle with the idea of separating a happy family unit for the sake of my own needs. My son is so happy. I just feel so selfish

OP posts:
spotcheck · 19/07/2021 00:13

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that being with someone who doesn't fancy you erodes self esteem. It is like an insidious vein of rot that eats away at your self worth.

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 19/07/2021 00:15

It’s not selfish to want your husband to treat you as a wife. Not a housemate.

You’ve tried talking to him, you’ve seen that he’s happy to bumble along, and let this marriage go the same way as his first. He’s an adult. He clearly has time for hobbies if the bikes are coming before you, so there’s no excuse really.

I’d make my plans to leave. If he’s just being complacent and really does want to be with you it might be the wake up he needs. Otherwise you free yourself up to find someone who appreciates you and makes you feel special. Just because you’re a mum it doesn’t mean you stop being a woman. You deserve to feel appreciated, desired and special. As you’re finding - Without that it’s soul destroying.

wisteria90 · 19/07/2021 00:22

I agree @spotcheck

And I honestly think it's not just fancying, it's also respect. The tone in which he speaks to me is more frequently than not one of annoyance. The language he's capable of using when he's annoyed I would never have predicted when we got married.

There is also a complete inability to do anything or put anything into action. In the same way, he's completely unable to stand up for me or respect my feelings. There have been numerous instances in the past 2 years where he probably should have / could have been a little stronger and stood up for me with family members, but it's been absent. As a result there've been several instances where I've just felt alone.

OP posts:
wisteria90 · 19/07/2021 00:24

Gosh @MarkRuffaloCrumble - thank you. Your message has completely made me rethink things.

OP posts:
MarkRuffaloCrumble · 19/07/2021 00:38

There have been numerous instances in the past 2 years where he probably should have / could have been a little stronger and stood up for me with family members, but it's been absent. As a result there've been several instances where I've just felt alone

What’s the point of a partnership when he isn’t supportive or in any way enhancing your life? Feeling alone when you’re in a relationship is so much worse than actually being alone.

Honestly - life is too short to put up with a mediocre marriage!

I was in a similar position 10 years ago. Nothing awful, just not feeling any closeness, XH not making any effort etc. I’m now happily parenting my 3 lovely DC alone (XH has moved abroad) and I have a wonderful and loving DP who adores me and looks at me like I’m a little bit magic!

I’m one of those who’s quick to say LTB because it’s the best thing I ever did Grin Even more so if your husband is an involved and decent dad, so that he’ll pull his weight and free you up to meet new people. It’s not like you’d be doing it on a whim - you’ve tried in so many ways to get him to engage but he’s clearly just not that bothered. Whether that’s because he thinks he doesn’t have to and you’ll always be there or just because he’s not feeling it any more, only he knows. But the end result for you is the same.

How do you think he’d react if you told him you were leaving him?

wisteria90 · 19/07/2021 00:54

@MarkRuffaloCrumble - it's really comforting and empowering to read your situation and how right the decision you made was. Equally a relief to feel that my feelings are valid and it's not selfish to honour them. Can't thank you enough for your response

In all honesty, I think he would be broken and it probably would be the kick up the arse he would need. I think months later he would feel a lot of regret. In the conversations we've had so far I've tried to create a space where it's fine for him to be honest- I've reassured him that it's ok if he just doesn't find me attractive anymore. He says that it's not lack of attraction, but rather just not feeling that he has time for himself (I.e bikes). I would completely disagree with that, and would never stop him from wanting to invest more time in his hobby if it would enrich the time we have together.

In all honesty I think it's a crap excuse. We both work long hours and are admittedly exhausted. But that's never been a reason for me to not make an effort, or to not be a wife.

He once said "if you need affection, or to feel loved - you really should just leave and meet someone else as I'll never be able to do that". He just thinks he's not that kind of person. He absolutely used to be- so I just have no idea. It makes no sense to me at all.

I'm so fed up of trying to make sense of it, it would be a huge relief to stop making sense of it. It's almost like I don't want to be the person that is responsible for him having two failed marriages (I know I'm not really!). He would be a fantastic person to co parent with if we did separate - I know we would both want the best for our son and could forge a friendship for his sake

OP posts:
MarkRuffaloCrumble · 19/07/2021 01:03

It’s just weird isn’t it that he can’t see the cliff he’s hurtling towards!!

I don't want to be the person that is responsible for him having two failed marriages

Interestingly when I told my XH I wanted a divorce he talked about not wanting to lose the house, not wanting to be apart from the children, not wanting to be divorced for a second time (he married before when he was very young). I pointed out that not once had he mentioned loving me, or not wanting to lose me. His reply. “Of course I love you. That goes without saying” Grin. No XH - it absolutely does not go without saying!! It needs saying and more importantly DOING!

I don’t want to be single handedly responsible for your divorce Grin but it really does sound like you’re flogging a dead horse here and you’d be liberated by leaving him.

How would you be set up financially/career-wise etc? Do you feel stuck or could you build a life for yourself without him?

wisteria90 · 19/07/2021 01:14

@MarkRuffaloCrumble I know right! That's exactly what I've said! It's almost as though he can see where it's headed, but he just can't (or wont) do a thing about it to prevent it.

Gosh it is so strange that your situation was near identical to mind! (ExH married once previously also). Absolutely mind boggling, yet incredibly apt that he said "goes without saying"! We had a near identical conversion, when I suggested that we may end up needing to separate if this continues, he listed numerous reasons why it would be tough - house; shared custody; difficult on son; difficult on dog... not one reason mentioned me. It sounded off alarm bells in my head.

Financial situation - thankfully I'm on a good salary and can afford to live alone / leave, whilst still working and providing childcare. We just sold our house and bought a new one last month to upsize- not great timing at all, it's a 2 year fixed mortgage. I do sometimes wonder if it would be the worst thing to remain living together for a period of time as 'housemates' and coparents. I mean, it's essentially what we've been going for the last 3 years!

OP posts:
MarkRuffaloCrumble · 19/07/2021 01:28

Bad timing on the house, but at least you would be able to support yourself which is a huge bonus. So many women get stuck because they don’t have independent income etc.

Trouble with staying together for another 3 years is that once you’ve emotionally checked out he will drive you mad Grin. But as long as you can separate your self esteem from his lack of engagement so that he doesn’t drag you down it might be ok.

TBH for me, a few weeks in limbo while he was house hunting was more than enough. At one point he asked why I was always so pissed off at him and that he was fed up of me snapping at him. At which point I just shouted “so fuck off then!!!” And within a week he had. Turned out it wasn’t so hard to find somewhere to live after all Grin. I think once the decision had been made, his presence was just a constant reminder of the fact that he didn’t love me enough to do better.

Within 6 months I’d been on several dates and met my now DP, so I’m glad I didn’t stick it out for any longer than necessary. But if it works for you to stay put while emotionally disengaging then you have to do whatever works for you.

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 19/07/2021 01:28

Ah sorry - 2 years. But it still stands!

tortoiselover100 · 19/07/2021 02:45

Ditch him, you deserve more x

Newestname001 · 19/07/2021 08:39

@wisteria90

He's told you exactly what you need to do, OP.

He once said "if you need affection, or to feel loved - you really should just leave and meet someone else as I'll never be able to do that".

That's a VERY clear statement of what he feels should happen and, possibly, what he'll remind you of if/when you argue with him again about what's lacking in your relationship.

Whilst you are deciding, talk to a solicitor about your situation. Go armed with your joint financial facts re, eg: mortgage, house equity, pensions, savings, child maintenance (check CMS website) etc so at least you'll be armed with the facts for when you decide to physically and legally separate. Ie: "Get your ducks in a row."

Do this discreetly for now, no need to forewarn him. This is an information gathering exercise for you to see exactly how you stand before deciding how you wish to proceed. Good luck! 🌹

updownroundandround · 19/07/2021 10:05

@wisteria90

It really does sound like he somehow 'checks out' when he's 'comfortable' in a marriage, doesn't it ? Or could it be that he does that when you've changed from being a Wife/Partner to Mother ?
Some men simply cannot find it in themselves to be able to stay sexually 'attracted' to a woman once she is a Mother Hmm.

You have done all you can.
He has already told you he won't be 'able to' give you the 'love and affection' to deserve.

Whether or not he will 'regret' your marriage ending in divorce is largely irrelevant, because he's not willing to even try to 'give you what you need', is he ? Hmm.

When you don't even rank higher than his bike, never mind the dog, despite having heart to heart conversations about you feeling 'unloved', then there really is NO hope. Confused

Console yourself with the knowledge that he should, at least, continue to be a 'good Father', and start getting your finances etc ready to leave.

wisteria90 · 19/07/2021 10:33

Thank you so much for your comments. It's given me so much to think about.

On a dog walk this morning I actually brought up this topic again and admitted that I don't feel very happy- I know that probably seems an odd place to bring it up! When we tried to speak about this last night, he ended up sleeping in the spare room.

He admitted that he just doesn't feel very fulfilled at the moment within his own life, he feels quite bored and thinks that I'm very family orientated- whereas he would rather have more time away to invest in himself and hobbies.

Whilst he's not an arse for wanting that, hearing him say it made me really think how much better I deserve. I would love to have had a husband who genuinely wants to spend time with me. Frankly I already feel like I'm getting zero from him and am last in the pecking order- so the idea of picking up more childcare and having more distance, on the off chance that it would enrich the time we spend together feels like a joke.

I've been asked to go on holiday with the in laws in September (third year in a row). I've really not been looking forward to it, as I know I'll feel alone / an outsider. I'm tempted to back out of the holiday, and back out of all of the marital commitments that seem to come with being married until I can figure out what to do next. I just don't see why I should carry on investing / compromising so much with someone who is so unwilling to meet me half way.

What I resent more is that I've had quite a turbulent upbringing, but I'm fully capable of committing to our family and marriage. I never let my history or emotions interfere with or direct the tone of our marriage or how much effort I'm willing to put into it. He, by comparison, has had a very secure upbringing- yet completely incompetent at wanting to create the same here and can't seem not let his emotions bring down the tone for the rest of us.

OP posts:
Smackthepony · 19/07/2021 10:54

@wisteria90,

Wow, that really is a ‘my way or the highway’ statement isn’t it. He has made it clear that he is not going to give you anymore in this marriage. How much longer are you going to keep flogging the dead horse. You keep having the same conversations and getting the same results. I left my exH in my 50’s with nothing and a poorly paid job. I worked hard and clawed my way back. No matter how tough things got, I never regretted my decision. You’re situation is different. You are young and financially independent. I would have left a lot sooner had I been in that position. I kept trying, hoping it would improve but ended up leaving with nothing in the end and wasted years I’ll never get back!. That’s the part I do regret. What’s stopping you? It’s never an easy decision but once it’s done, it’s done, you won’t look back. Just the act of leaving will immediately raise your self esteem. At the moment you are just ‘white goods’ and that is soul destroying! Take your life back. Put yourself back in the driving seat. Make that leap of faith. 💐

Newestname001 · 19/07/2021 11:32

@wisteria90

I've been asked to go on holiday with the in laws in September (third year in a row). I've really not been looking forward to it, as I know I'll feel alone / an outsider. I'm tempted to back out of the holiday, and back out of all of the marital commitments that seem to come with being married until I can figure out what to do next. I just don't see why I should carry on investing / compromising so much with someone who is so unwilling to meet me half way.

This could be your first step out, OP. Be prepared to be strong, however, as you may well be made to feel guilty for not falling in with other people's plans. 🌹

Inthesameboat2 · 19/07/2021 12:43

It seems that once children came along he can't/ doesn't see you as a romantic partner anymore but more of a mother figure, and not just to your dc either.
Seems you're now in the box of wife/mum and, for whatever reason, he's lost that previous attraction and doesn't see you as a woman with physical needs anymore.

At the end of the day, if he isn't willing to explore why his feelings have changed and seems happy with the status quo, then you've decisions to make as things are unlikely to change.

updownroundandround · 19/07/2021 13:10

@wisteria90

He admitted that he just doesn't feel very fulfilled at the moment within his own life, he feels quite bored and thinks that I'm very family orientated- whereas he would rather have more time away to invest in himself and hobbies.

I'm so sorry Flowers

He really couldn't be clearer, could he ?

You say ''I feel unloved''
And he says ''I'd like more time away from you Sad

I agree that you really need to disengage from him now, because carrying on is futile, and would be soul destroying. Sad

I'd be telling him that the fact that you already feel unloved, and he, in actual fact, wants to live a less 'family oriented' life means that it is now time to formally separate. He can pack a bag now and leave.

Tell your In Laws that you won't be coming on the holiday, as your marriage is over.

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 19/07/2021 15:55

Yea the family holiday is the perfect opportunity to duck out and let him do some family stuff without you. His first taste of divorced family life!

I suggest you book something lovely for yourself that week, as you know the DCs will be well looked after by him and the in-laws so you can properly relax for a week doing whatever you choose - your first taste of divorced family life!

I don’t want to keep me-railing but one of the things you said has struck another chord! When I said I wanted XH to spend more time with us as a family he admitted that being asked to do things as a family made him angry, and he didn’t know why, but that he couldn’t be the husband I needed him to be. It’s sounding more and more familiar tbh. (We both suspected he is on the spectrum and just wasn’t capable of giving what I needed). Fwiw he’s now happy on his own, with all the freedom to travel and do his hobbies etc and he has a better relationship with the kids by actually taking some parental responsibility for them on his time instead of leaving it all to me.

The more you say, the more I think your situation is like mine! And the more I think you’d benefit from splitting. Flowers

loveyourself2020 · 19/07/2021 21:06

@MarkRuffaloCrumble
Trouble with staying together for another 3 years is that once you’ve emotionally checked out he will drive you mad

That. So true. I know that many people do that and stay together for whatever reason for months, sometimes year, but boy is that hard. Avoid at all possible costs. I have been doing it for only three months and I am at my wit's ends. Luckily my STBX is leaving in a couple of weeks but I cannot wait. Its just...weird and hard and... painful.

MarkRuffaloCrumble · 19/07/2021 21:19

@loveyourself2020 hope leaving day comes round as quickly as possible for you Flowers

SixesAndEights · 19/07/2021 21:19

Don't waste a second more of your life than you absolutely have to, OP.

The other PP is right, once you've checked out a week will feel like a year!

loveyourself2020 · 19/07/2021 21:45

@MarkRuffaloCrumble
Thank you Flowers

Inthesameboat2 · 20/07/2021 10:25

@wisteria90, how are you? You've a difficult decision ahead of you 🌷You deserve happiness too.

Don't know if my previous comments yesterday (Monday) around 12.30-1pm made any sense to you, but you said in both marriages he checked out after several years... did he have dc with her too?

If not, then maybe it's more just a case of getting too comfortable and taking you (both) for granted after the relationships were established or that old saying that familiarity breeds contempt applies to his feelings.

Either way though, it still stands that you deserve some happiness of your own 🌻

wisteria90 · 20/07/2021 11:11

Thank you so much for all of the amazing responses. I'm so grateful- it's given me so much to think about and digest, not least the confidence to realise that I absolutely need to put myself first. Each response has sort of knocked me for six- I fully expected to be told to suck it up and that this is normal. He didn't have children with his ex wife, and put quite a lot of effort into counselling in order to try and remain together. By then it was too late for her, she had met someone else. I never fully understood this- but now I absolutely do.

Quite a lot has happened in the past 24 hours. We were due to go away this weekend and visit my parents 4 hours away. He suggested yesterday morning, during our early dog walk, that I go alone with DS, and he remain at home and have some time for himself. He said he thought the space might do us good.

I went into planning mode and tried to think of excuses I could give my parents to try and cover for him. But following your advice, decided it would just be better to come clean and admit that it was his suggestion and that we're having some problems (if we separate, I'm going to need their support). My parents were great, and more supportive than I thought they would be - mostly just frustrated and disappointed in him. They both said that the fact that he was willing to allow me to do a long drive on my own with a toddler is quite telling, just so he can have time to do his hobby. I mean, I'm no snow flake so very capable of doing long drives alone- but I agree. It is incredibly selfish and telling. One point my dad made really struck a cord- he said he remembered when my DH told him he wanted to marry me, just before he proposed, and all of the things he's spouted out about how much he adored me. I got pregnant just 14 months later, which is when things started to shift - my dad said he couldn't understand how someone could change their tone so quickly in that time.

Shortly after this call, he asked if we could have a chat - which in itself is very unlike him- it's usually me facilitating conversations. He definitely hadn't heard me as I'd had the conversation with my parents outside of the house.

He apologised to me and told me that he knew that he needs to do better and be a better husband. I made a concerted effort to not say anything and remain passive - mainly because I don't know what more I can say than what I've already said over the past few years- and frankly I was just pissed off.

He said he didn't understand why he isn't able to be affectionate. He said he knows it should be a very simple thing to do and he just doesn't understand why he struggles to do it. He said that he knew what I was asking for was very simple, and the minimum that I deserve, and couldn't understand why he hadn't been able to give it. He also said that he knew he'd said this dozens of times previously and is yet to implement any action.

Lastly, he asked if he could come this weekend.

I've remained distant since his apology - I've fallen for this too quickly, too many times before. Frankly speaking I think the space is something he asked for for a reason, it's what he wanted- and I think he should have it. He needs to realise what the single life would actually feel like. How good it really is. I'm so aware that the simplest thing to do would be to just allow him to come this weekend, but I don't think it's the right thing for the long term- or for me. I can see this slipping back.

I genuinely think he is being honest, and I think he genuinely does want to be a better husband. But I think me believing him and supporting him with that is just enabling him to slip back into a complacent way of living- and he'll just forget all of this. We've been here dozens of times before.

So my new plan is to get advice, as a PP said, just to get my ducks in a row and understand both of our rights and options should things not work out. But to also take some space for myself- go alone this weekend. Continue to say no to all in law and family commitments (why should I have to continue to be the supportive wife if I've not had a husband for the past 3 years). And make him really sweat.

If he's serious, he'll start showing some action- and it needs to be consistent. If he's not, he won't, and I'll be ready to act.

OP posts:
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