Is it him, or me?

[Clipperyellow]

I think I know the answer before I start but I need to ask because I feel like I'm going mad. DH seems regularly angry over the smallest thing but won't actually say anything, it's all facial expressions, body language and tone of voice/choice of words. When I ask what's wrong (because frankly the things he seems annoyed about are insignificant and should be no more than a momentary irritation) he will deny there is anything wrong (whilst still scowling and stomping about) and then eventually get over himself and revert back to normal, expecting me to do the same. Trouble is, because what he does is subtle, more creating a mood than anything I can actually name, he just denies it ever happened and I end up looking like the one causing an issue.

I've talked to him numerous times when he's calm and an incident hasn't just happened and he claims not to know what I'm talking about, says he's not angry so doesn't understand why I think he is which just leads to circular arguments with no resolution.

All this is complicated by the fact that I don't react well to male aggression due to past abuse (pre-DH) and so I'm questioning whether what I'm seeing is actually as 'angry' as I perceive it to be. I think it is, I'm ashamed to say I see the same reaction from 13 year old DD and she often asks me quietly 'what's up with Dad?' but then I worry that she's picking up on my reaction rather than it being her own instinctive response?

I don't just put up with the way he behaves, I call it out in the moment (not always but most times), I tell him I know he's gaslighting me, that what he's doing is manipulative and passive aggressive and that sooner or later I will have had enough and that will be the end, but I know the only thing he will believe is me actually leaving and unfortunately I can't do that.

I don't know why I'm posting because I know there's only one answer and I just can't see a way to leave, I'm just so sick of that plunge in my stomach when he comes home in a mood or switches on me for no apparent reason. He's managed to ruin this weekend for me again and I was stupid to expect anything else so why do I feel so disappointed? What's that saying about the definition of stupid? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Yeah, that.

This is why I divorced my Ex.

His repeated silent moods, bad temper, black looks and replies of Nothing! when you asked what was wrong. Eventually I used to reply, Oh that's good! I thought you were sulking about something again. Glad everything's fine! in a cheery voice because I got sick of it.

And eventually I got sick of it enough to file for divorce. Living in an unpleasant atmosphere isn't what anyone wants - and if it's affecting your DD I'd speak to a solicitor sooner rather than later.

I know the only thing he will believe is me actually leaving and unfortunately I can't do that.

What are your barriers to leaving?

If you're convinced you can't leave, and he's complacent you won't leave whatever he does, then nothing will change. I would change your situation so leaving is an option, so even if you're not ready to yet, you can and he bloody well knows it.

Scared to say too much as he's found my posts before but I'm not working and have been out of the workplace so long I doubt any employer would want me. I have no qualifications and didn't have a career before, just random jobs, I also struggle with my MH and the idea of having to face interviews, starting somewhere new, new people etc terrifies me.

Leaving would also have huge implications for DD which I can't really explain as it would be instantly recognisable but there would be changes she would struggle with massively. We're council tenants and I've no idea how I could make him leave if he decided he didn't want to, we also have rent arrears (being paid off, slowly) and they won't remove anyone from the tenancy while that remains the case, even if I could get him to agree to go. I couldn't raise a deposit/moving costs etc and am loathe to give up the council tenancy anyway, at least DD has a secure roof over her head here. Money wise there would be nothing to split in a divorce, no property, no assets, no money and he's self employed so no guarantee of child maintenance even.

And the same old reason, I love him, I love us when he's happy and in a good mood, we've been through some really hard stuff over the years but I've never wanted to not be with him. I don't think it was always this bad, I feel like the boiled frog and I don't know how I got here

But you're kind of living half a life like this.

What if he died or suffered life-changing injuries? How would you manage?

Don't you think you owe it yourself and your dd to make more of your one and only life and show her you can improve your lot? Perhaps volunteering or trying some access courses or training would help you build some confidence and open doors for you?

Maybe he partly resents your dependence on him as well?

It might be that getting back into work could rebuild your confidence and give you more options for the future, while also having a beneficial effect on your relationship?

My XH was like this. I kind of semi-normalised it. It was only when we once drove through a toll booth in France, when he was 'in one' and I saw the toll booth operator, a woman, looked really scared of him. That's how much aggression he was giving off. I couldn't live like that, and eventually he started picking on DD too. That was one of the last straws. Our life is happier without him, not sure about the new wife victim. Please leave OP. You can do this.

I feel like the boiled frog and I don't know how I got here

Because you're not listening to and respecting your feelings. It has a cumulative effect.

Do you realise that you are doing damage to your daughter by staying in this relationship? It's not 'staying is good for her' v 'leaving is bad for her'. My parents were in an abusive relationship, and I recreated it in my own adult relationships for years, until I had one so bad it nearly destroyed me. I had counselling and I'm out the other side, now, but if it weren't for my worst abuser, I probably would have kept repeating the pattern set by my parents, and wondering what was wrong with me that I couldn't find a partner to be happy with.

Do you want your daughter to replicate the relationship you have with your husband? She clearly sees that something is wrong, but that you choose to stay. She will do the same. 'It all feels wrong, but I have to stay: that's how relationships go.'

You're in an abusive relationship. You need to get yourself and your daughter away. Most abusers are nice some of the time; it's how they keep their victims hooked. It's working on you perfectly. His 'nice' times are part of the manipulation.

What example of 'relationship' were you set, growing up? Did your parents love and respect each other? Listen to each other? Did you feel like your feelings were a priority? Were you respected, as a child?

He is the reason I am dependent so if he does resent it he's got a bloody cheek! Again I can't go into details but it suits him that I'm at home far more than it does me and he/his job are the reasons I am dependent, and the reasons doing voluntary work or a course are impossible for me. I realise it must be frustrating that I can't explain properly but anything I could do to improve my situation would have to be done after we'd split, there is no way for me to do it now and even afterwards the complications with DD would make it very hard. I can't explain how much a split would affect her, even acknowledging the damage living with DH must be doing her it would still be a million times worse.

It's really difficult to understand why you splitting with him would be so much worse for her than growing up in this environment. In the short term it would be difficult and upsetting, of course, but long-term?

Can you engage with your housing officer or domestic abuse services to find out what options you have?

I know it's hard to understand but if I explained he would recognise me immediately, I don't know if he still looks for me on here but he used to. But yes, it would impact DD long term and I'm honestly not sure she would cope with the changes. We're honestly not just talking about new home, new school, general upset and upheaval type impact, I genuinely think the changes that would have to happen might break her.

Break her? Psychologically, you mean?

What do you think being raised in this environment will do to her? You don't seem to understand the scope of this. Being upset by her parents breaking up at 13 is not the same as being raised to think that the relationship you have with your husband is a normal one. That has the power to wreck all of her adult relationships.

Maybe try posting in the other place so you can be more forthcoming and he is less likely to find you?

I will think about the other place, don't actually know how he found my posts before so I do worry about what I post on here. It's so much more than just being upset about her parents splitting TheFoundations, if it was just that I would be long gone.

If you don't feel you can leave then the alternative is to access couples' counselling so you can discuss his micro aggressions (your POV) of your over-sensitivity/misconception of his moods (his POV, presumably). If he won't go then you can go alone. Relate offer them at a much reduced cost for those on low/no income - why not stick yourself on the waiting list? At least it's one small proactive thing you can do now when your frustration with him is particularly acute.

The finding of your posts is a real alarm bell for me. It suggests a more complex and concerning situation of controlling behaviour than the irritation of fleeting bad moods in your OP would suggest. Take care of yourself.

I am also really concerned about the controlling behaviour of searching for your posts, so please make sure you always clear the history on your computer/tablet.

I think you'd be far better talking to Womens Aid directly, and getting actual, real life help. Can you phone them ?

@updownroundandround

I am also really concerned about the controlling behaviour of searching for your posts, so please make sure you always clear the history on your computer/tablet.

I think you'd be far better talking to Womens Aid directly, and getting actual, real life help. Can you phone them ?

Yes, this is indicative of a really sinister attitude in him.

I'd second the advice to contact WA. They'll help you find a way. They're not going to say to you 'Yup, you're right, it's best to stay where you are and let your daughter grow up in an abusive household.'

If you don't feel you can leave then the alternative is to access couples' counselling

Sorry, but this is a bad idea, abusers will just manipulate the counselling to go their way and the OP will be even worse off.

Clipper, if you can get space to do so I strongly recommend contacting Women's Aid, you are exactly the person they are there for. I was in a very similar situation to you and they were an amazing help. There is life after abuse, there is hope for you and your daughter

Men like you describe like supposedly "strong" women as they see it as an additional challenge to bring their woman whom they see as a possession down to their base level. Make no mistake here, these types hate women and ALL of them (including their own daughter).

Calling him out on it as you have done does not work; he knows what he is doing and he does not care. Your DD sees all this and learns from you also that this is how women are treated in relationships.

Couples counselling is never recommended where there is abuse of any type within the relationship. Do not enter into any joint counselling with him.

What is exactly stopping you from leaving this man. No obstacle to leaving is ultimately insurmountable. If you can express those fears more, it can be broken down into more manageable chunks. I would think your DD would cope better with you two divorcing far better than you think she would. Staying for her sake is really no reason to remain with such a man and I would also think your love for him is actually based on and around codependency.

Can you go into a branch of Boots and ask for Ani?. The staff there will direct you to domestic violence support services.