In laws

[Coffeecake12]

Hi everyone

I live with my husband, two very young children and my in laws (husband's mother, father and sister). Plus a pet rabbit! All 7 of us are living together. Getting crowded.

I live with in laws for cultural reasons. It wasn't really by pure choice but before I got married I naively didn't think it would be a big deal. After all, I was living with my parents and I thought it would be from home to home. I also know others who do or had done the same.

Long story short, my MIL and FIL are generally good people and don't make any demands. MIL helps us with the children alot and largely takes care of the cooking and cleaning etc. We split the finances from the get go, so I am paying my fair share.

In short, my SIL is the issue. She is 30 and has been sitting at home for 2 years without a job for reasons, which none of us are convinced of. She is very lazy in nature and contributes nothing. Culturally, she isn't expected to as an unmarried daughter of the house; fair enough, but there's no prospect of her moving out anytime soon.

This isn't very endearing to me, but I can let that slide because it's up to her what she does with her life. But my real issue with her is that she doesn't know how to talk without being aggressive. I've had my fingers burnt so many times (including times when I've been heavily pregnant and didn't need the agro). I don't think she really realises her tone or how she comes across, but I got so fed up that eventually we stopped speaking due to a strain of relationship. But she still manages to come out with a rude tone and is very patronising when she talks to me out of necessity. The problem is that my MIL never puts her straight or pulls her up on anything and tries to brush everything under the carpet. So she just keeps repeating the behaviour and getting away with it, thinking that it is perfectly acceptable to talk however she wants. My husband knows she is like this but also used to try and keep the peace and brush it under the carpet. Now he does support and more actively engages with me in private, but still doesn't stand up enough for me I feel. He has spoken to his sister and parents before about his sister's behaviour, but that's only on some occasions when I make him. It falls on deaf ears anyway because his parents just aren't willing to discipline her in any meaningful way. They just make out that we are equally to blame and we just can't get along. They fail to acknowledge objectively that SIL is the instigator of this and just rubs people up the wrong way. I'm sure they know deep down, but don't want to admit it. They dislike confrontation.

Most recently, I was spoken to rudely again. She was completely unprovoked. I then retaliated and she called her mum to "tell me". MIL just tried to diffuse the situation and apparently told her in private just to stay away from me. Not much of a telling off. She never actually tackles the issue that it is unfair for her to speak to me in this way. This has been going on for nearly 7 years and I've just sucked it up. Yet on the couple of occasions when I was perceived to be out of line, MIL and FIL make their feelings known. But they don't seem to give a flying f**k when their daughter speaks to me poorly, causing me stress and marital problems.

On this latest occasion, MIL used something I said to her (MIL) in retaliation over having been verbally attacked by SIL. She used that to cover up the actual issue of SIL being the one who was at fault. So when husband and I decided to sit down to speak to MIL about SIL, MIL used that and my husband told me in front of her that I shouldn't have said it. But SIL's poor behaviour was barely touched on.

I'm now not speaking to my husband (or my MIL) and don't see myself doing so at all in the near future. I also had a huge rant at my husband after he failed to support me sufficiently. He had backed me up and was annoyed with SIL in private with me, but he was so neutral and wishy washy when it came to confronting MIL about the behaviour and MIL just manipulated the situation and wriggled out of it. This is only the first or second time I actually confronted MIL seriously about her daughter's behaviour.

We already made the decision to move out over SIL's behaviour so I won't have to put up with it for much longer. But I've really taken issue with my husband and MIL. I feel that I've kept quiet so much over the years and been so frustrated but I'm sick of being confronted rudely about things by SIL and with her always getting away with it. They act as if I'm the one at fault and they've been putting up with me over the years, despite contributing significantly to the household both in terms of labour and finances. I am hugely resentful and don't see myself getting past this.

My MIL and FIL are nice people but their daughter really is their weakness.

I know it's damaging to ignore your partner but I really don't see any other options? I also plan on minimising contact with them once I've got my own house. Can anyone suggest anything else?

It feels uncomfortable ignoring pretty much everyone in the house, especially when my in laws are around my children who are now attached to them because they see them every day and my MIL cares for them when I'm working. But I'm just so resentful.

Views appreciated.

I appreciate you're at the end of your tether, but not speaking to your husband might be counter-productive.

If I were you I'd be instigating urgent talks with him about how quickly you can move out and set up alternative childcare arrangements. Ask him which part of the planning he wants to be responsible for.

Will you rent at first?

SILs can be very difficult.

Living with her, in her parents’ house, married to her brother, mother to her parents’ GDC, when she’s unmarried herself, with a DH who won’t tell her to wind her neck in, and she’s 30yo - you’re a saint for having lasted this long.

Move out and keep your distance. Nothing good will come of maintaining this set-up.

Thank you both - appreciate your responses. We are probably about 2 months away from moving as we have already started the process. Can't wait to get away and finally have my own space without constant tension in the house where I'm bringing up my children.

I am however concerned about childcare and managing without MIL's help. I'm sure I'll manage. Or if I do have to rely on MIL to do drop offs/pick ups then I'm sure by then it will have smoothed over as I wouldn't be seeing my in laws or sharing a house with them every single day for lengthy periods of time. I think it will still be healthy to minimise contact though and avoid socialising with them. Thanks again

Personally I would book the dc into paid childcare. What example is sil to your dc? A spoilt madam at 30? Not a great role model for the dc long term is she?
And your dh needs to grow a pair. Cultural or not his priority is to you, his dw..

@30degreesandmeltinghere - you are absolutely right. My views exactly.

You can't expect your MIL to 'discipline' a woman in her 30s. I understand that you would like her to back you if needed, but really this is between your SIL and you, not your MIL. However, your DH should have your back.

At the moment, by not speaking to your DH, you risk turning this in to SIL, MIL and SH v you. I suggest talking to your DH, doing your best not to fall out with him, and be the bigger person. Ignore SIL's rudeness, just raise your eyebrows and get on with your day.

And if you can speed up moving out then do.

You seem to be putting a lot of blame on your MIL for this when it's your SIL's fault. If anyone should be intervening on your behalf then it's your DH you should be looking to, not your MIL. Of course your MIL doesn't want to get involved in the adult squabbles of her daughter and her husband's wife - it's a lose lose situation for her either way. Saying that you want to avoid socialising with her but still use her for childcare seems pretty unreasonable - you seem more annoyed in your posts with your MIL than your SIL.

Ultimately while your SIL sounds very difficult and clearly the instigator, it takes two to tango and it doesn't sound like you're successful in staying calm and just removing yourself from the situation when she's rude to you. If it ends up in a slanging match them regardless of where you started, from an outsider's point of view, neither of you will look good.

Stop blanking your husband; it's not a healthy way to communicate in a relationship. Instead of blanking him how about you just start blanking SIL when she's rude? Don't respond: just get up and walk away. Then it will be much clearer to those around you who's in the wrong here.

I see what you're saying but I've tried keeping quiet for years being the bigger person, but the last few spats I have spoken back to her to stand up for myself because she has gotten away with so much and her behaviour hasn't improved.

Re childcare, she wants to see her grandchildren and if I sourced alternative childcare then she would be very disappointed. It's a win win situation because she is good with the children, she wants to help and I gratefully take the help.

But yes, completely ignoring SIL is probably best and would probably make her feel much more awkward when she gets aggressive if she is just talking to herself!

Re blaming MIL, that's true but really her daughter never grew up and is still very childish. You'd be shocked at some of the ways MIL pampers her and she's spoilt and lazy beyond measure. It is very much her parents who are to blame for never keeping her in check, whatever her age was. They've essentially created an adult brat with no self awareness or emotional intelligence. And yes, you're right that It's clearly SIL's fault, but she can do no wrong in MIL's eyes and MIL isn't objective. I'm treated differently as the DIL because it seems that my feelings just don't matter. That's where the resentment kicks in. Especially as I was compelled to live with in laws, it wasn't my choice and I felt trapped for years until I snapped and said I wanted out. In laws were disappointed but have accepted it now.

She may want to see the GC but the degree you are all enmeshed in each others lives is not helping you. Plus you can also see what sort of a parent she is - has favourites, loves spoiling children, no concept of discipline or rules.

Once you have moved out, are you still planning on having her for childcare? It will only increase the amount you have to go round there and interact, and how much they know about your lives.

You want out, you are getting out but are you getting far enough out?

In mil's house she absolutely can call her dd out on being a bully to other family members. At 3 or 30 imo!!
Or she should be booted bloody out!!

@AnnaMagnani That's very true. But I'm not expecting her to discipline my children and I've always said to myself that I will not raise my children to be anything like MIL has raised SIL to be. My main concern is that the children are happy in her company and that she looks after them and keeps them safe, which to be fair she does.

I also very much see your Q whether the separation will be enough. I think it will be. Living in a separate house will dramatically reduce the amount of time we spend together and will give me the breathing space I never had for years. Not using her for childcare will also disappoint my husband who wants both sets of grandparents to be around the children. Don't get me wrong - I won't be pressured into having her babysit but as the end of the day, I have confidence in her to look after them. Plus, it will only be for a few hours after nursery/school and I'll just simply pick them up, thank her and leave, as opposed to being in each others personal space 24/7 as part of a permanent living arrangement.

I understand that sharing a house with in-laws is challenging in any circumstances.

Im really not getting why MiL is taking all the flack for her daughter's behaviour. Surely there are two parents. And you need to be a unit with your DH

Moving out is the right way forward here but meanwhile, don't let's just default to blaming the mother, however old the children are.

@30degreesandmeltinghere You hit the nail on the head re how I'm feeling. I don't think anyone ever stops being a mother/father and responsible for their kids, even when their kids are now adults. She should be calling out and stopping her bad behaviour. Her mother and father are likely to be the only ones who can actually exercise influence over her but never do so, purely out of fear of upsetting her. Doesn't matter who else gets upset in the process.

They are creating a very bad situation for everyone by failing to step in and be parents and I hold them very much accountable. Ofc SIL is old enough to know better but that doesn't absolve them for expecting me to live in a joint family and put with her aggression every other month without holding her accountable. If anything, the fact that she is an adult makes the whole thing worse because there's really no excuse for her behaviour and alarm bells should be ringing for them as to how she is going to cope with life and get on with other people. I've had to put up with this for years and didn't mention moving out for fear of not meeting expectations to stay with them.

@FinallyHere you're right - but I do hold both parents equally accountable. The reason I have focussed more on MIL is because she was the one who SIL called to get involved to back her up. Very patronising. FIL wasn't even around. But yes, when FIL is around I also expect him to ensure his daughter doesn't talk inappropriately but he never says anything to her either. SIL obviously doesn't listen to me or DH so her parents are really the only ones in a position to put her in place, notwithstanding the fact that she is in her 30's.

Unfortunately as they daughter in law culturally you are the lowest in the household and the sister traditionally gets to Lord it over you. Of course here in the U.K. it's completely unacceptable but traditions die hard. I have two friends who have ended up divorcing because their husband chose to obey his parents and siblings over them

@gogohm yes it is terrible and wrong on so many levels. But my MIL and FIL genuinely don't believe in any of that. But the fact remains that they just blindly overlook their daughter's laziness and aggressive behaviour and, in doing so, have failed to instill any life skills in their daughter while simultaneously damaging their son's marriage with me. SIL also speaks poorly to her parents and DH sometimes but they have all overlooked her flaws (DH less so now) because they don't want to upset her or confront her. But I'm not doing the same anymore and it escallates when I retalliate because she's not used to being challenged and not getting her own way.

[quote Coffeecake12]@FinallyHere you're right - but I do hold both parents equally accountable. The reason I have focussed more on MIL is because she was the one who SIL called to get involved to back her up. Very patronising. FIL wasn't even around. But yes, when FIL is around I also expect him to ensure his daughter doesn't talk inappropriately but he never says anything to her either. SIL obviously doesn't listen to me or DH so her parents are really the only ones in a position to put her in place, notwithstanding the fact that she is in her 30's.[/quote]
Until your SIL marries, your inlaws will treat her like a child/young girl because culturally and l'm talking about the culture of those from the pakistani community l'm part of.

Adult children are not seen as adults until they are married. Especially girls, l feel. Even when married your still made to feel that you are too young to understand, it p*ess me off because as an adult your decisions and opinions should not have to be approved by "elders".

You are doing the right thing by moving out as it gives you back more control. Also maybe your sil feels threatened that her place in the home is precarious, which is not an excuse but something which might explain some of the behaviour

@1990b Absolutely. They treat her like a 7 year old and pamper her so much. She doesn't even open the front door herself when she drives home, even though she is literally holding a key in her hand or purse. Her parents open the door for her when she knocks. It's not endearing at all given her age and the fact that she's ill mannered with it. She takes care of the rabbit at home, that's about it, and plays with my children when she feels like it (which I detest, especially after she's confronted me about something). Yes, looking forward to moving out and gaining some more control and privacy!

She literally sounds like my sister. Who is also a spoiled brat. She doesn't open the door to anyone, knocks when she has a key, doesn't answer house phone. We are not on speaking terms. Frankly, my life is much easier

I would be worried about her nasty tone etc being placed on your DC now you aren't there to aim it at.

I would only want MIL looking after them when she wasn't around!

of course your MIL doesn't want to get involved in the adult squabbles of her daughter and her husband's wife - it's a lose lose situation for her either way.

Exactly. It sound like you're all being infantilised by this situation. You're being very childish by refusing to speak to your husband. When men refuse to talk to their wives, mumsnet goes ballistic, and rightly so. It's selfish and controlling. And it paints you in a very bad light, so the three of them will all be against you.

You need to grow up, act like an adult, and move as soon as possible.

@1990b Sorry to hear. But glad your life is much better for it. Seems like the right position to take.

@RandomMess I've thought about that too. The kids are way too young to get embroiled in any petty disputes or be on that level of understanding. SIL is also ok with them and hopefully she will have found a job soon and/or the kids will be looked after at my house for a few hours after school so not too worried about their exposure to her.

@saraclara I realised after a couple of days that minimising conversation with DH isn't the way forward and so I apologised and am now engaging with him almost as normal. He understood my frustration but I agree that it is damaging behaviour. I do think I have acted very patiently with the family up till now and there's only so much can take before I snap lol. SIL has a very annoying personality type.