Emotional abuse or just “acceptable” male laziness/twat-ness

[Frog87]

I have been with my husband for over a decade & we have children together. I feel like I have wondered if he crosses the line on & off for years & probably committed to still getting married & having children for the sake of not wanting to start over & talking the crapness down. I have found it hard to determine whether it is emotional abuse or not, because we have always had banter & playfully taken the mic out of each other, so when he sometimes takes a dig/pop at me I may feel like he has gone too far or upset me….. but then I feel like I can’t take it to heart, because he is joking around. If I question any of it, he says I am being sensitive.
He implies that I don’t do enough around the house & makes out he does so much & more than most blokes. I still do more than him.
He bigs himself up a lot, especially when it comes to work. He comes across as though he thinks very highly of himself & nowadays it just makes me cringe. When out with friends he exaggerates sometimes to make himself sound better I imagine.
But then sometimes (mainly if he is feeling vulnerable & hungover) he will seem needy & self conscious.
He puts me down, joking that I’m a retard if I do things wrong or picking/joking that I’m always late.
He has double standards, especially re the kids & has said before “we’ll you’re the mum” as though I shouldp I’ll know what to do & sacrifice more.
He makes a big deal out of doing things with the kids, huffing & puffing if I ask him to get their tea or help them in the toilet…. But will do it in the end. It seems as though I am at least getting less judgement/disapproval for going out without the kids…. But it does annoy me how he just tells me what he is going to do & I have to arrange in advance ( but after talking to friends/family, this seems to be a normal thing for a father 🥺
I am having more feelings of “you’re just not a very nice person” but if I am feeling low he is my security. Maybe that’s why I am staying now. I don’t know if I love him anymore. How do you know? Doesn’t everyone fall out of love…. But still love each other like a good friend or family member.

Anyway, I would like to know other people’s experiences & whether it was always “clear cut” or subtle. And is it really emotional abuse or just shitty, lazy men? It seems many ppl I know will have variations about their men…. Is this it? Or is it not normal to be so critical, blamey to a blamey?

Your H is a manipulative, abusive and nasty piece of work using all sorts of tactics here against you. Using banter to put you down, being some sort of Disney dad to his kids whilst you carry the hard graft of parenting, calling you sensitive. Abuse like this is insidious in its onset and creeps up on people unawares. And his telling you what he is going to do whilst you having to arrange in advance is NOT normal behaviour for a father.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?. What sort of example were you shown?

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. In time, if they are not already, your kids will start to copy his way of speaking at you as well. Is this the role model of a relationship you want to teach them, currently you’re showing them this is still acceptable to you.

I would quietly but surely make plans to leave him because this is no life for your kids either. Seeking legal advice is a good start as is contacting Women Aid on their chat facility. How can you be helped here into leaving your abuser?

Lets try asking different questions:

1. If your dc were in a relationship like this would you be happy, or would you want something better for them?
2. Is the atmosphere in the house lighter when he isnt there?
3. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life like this?

I dont think it really matters whether its abuse or a shitty man. Either way you deserve better.

Thank you for replying. I think I am coming to the realisation that he is emotionally abusive & I have just thought this behaviour was normal all this time. Well, I mean I have questioned it, but always second guessed myself.
I just found an article on gaslighting & whoa!!! Everything fits. I still can’t shift this feeling that I am overreacting though….. but maybe that’s just because I have been “conditioned” to think like that! F* have I really been screwed over all this time & not known! Does he really know what he is doing?!?
I don’t know how the hell I would go about separating as he would have nowhere to stay, other than my parents & that would be weird & inappropriate I think. Gosh I couldn’t cope living together whilst separated.

And yes….. the atmosphere is definitely lighter when he is not around. I feel so on edge when he is about sometimes, like what is he gonna find wrong now & him shouting at the kids & being too harsh with them.
I just hope I don’t get terrible anxiety with him not being there & feeling alone.
What a mess 😢

This is not normal, and you don't have to put up with it.

OP, well done for staying sane.

I think you will need a lot of help and support. How would you feel about seeing a relationship counsellor on your own? They would be able to help you with what’s ‘normal’ and give you the confidence to believe what you already ‘know’.

I'm exhausted just reading your OP. He sounds extremely stressful and draining to be around. You're spot on about gaslighting. This is not normal, all men are absolutely not like this.

Interesting that your first thought about separating is concern for him and where he would stay. Where are YOU in all this? Your needs, your right to a sane and peaceful home? Excellent suggestion to see a counsellor. This will help you to start focusing on yourself, rather than always having him as your priority

Read Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft.

Yes he knows what he is doing and you were also targeted by him. He has never given you any consideration whatsoever in this relationship and he really does think he has not done any wrong by you. Gaslighting as well is an insidious form of psychological abuse designed to question your own reality. This abuse of you is all on him.

Do not make this model of a relationship your children’s norm going forward. You would not want them as adults to emulate such a relationship and it’s not good enough for you either.

Consider contacting Women’s Aid and seek legal advice going forward. Knowledge after all here is power.

Calling you ‘retarded’ is shocking.everything you’ve said suggests he’s not nice.
As others have said, start getting planning an exit route. Get advice where you can. Btw, why would you have to leave? Why not him?

Ps: don’t consider seeing a counsellor with him. See them alone.

I don’t know how the hell I would go about separating as he would have nowhere to stay,
Not your problem, his. Surely he has friends? He’s a grown man, he can sort it out himself – it’s not your job. He’s just conditioned you to think of his needs first.

I agree, don’t see a counsellor with him. And it doesn’t always matter what’s emotional abuse, what’s lazy, shitty men – what matters is whether you want to stay and put up with it or have the weight off your shoulders and boot him out.

He’s a misogynist. It’s pretty hard to love a man that sees you as second class and less than him, for women who value themselves.

This is definitely not normal. And no, most men don't act like this. Decent people share the workload of home / children / work 50/50 so they both get the same downtime. They both get the same freedoms. They are equally responsible for DC. They have mutual respect, support each other and are each others' biggest cheerleaders.

It sounds like he has worn down the love you used to have for him. In a healthy realtionship, whilst the initial 'madly in love' feelings might subside, a stronger but less dramatic form of love takes its place. You have lost that feeling because of how your husband acts.

I am so pleased you've seen it now. For your own sake and especially your DC, you need to make plans to split - this isn't healthy for any of you. Can you talk to someone in real life who would support you?

You have a lot of life left. Imagine you're 5 years older and still in the same situation (or possibly worse) - how do you feel? Imagine you've extracted yourself and are now living alone with your DC - how does that feel? Imagine your DC have grown and left home and you are left with this man - how does that feel?

The short term pain of a split will get you your life back. It will show your DC that you shouldn't stand for being mistreated in a relationship. You might meet someone else later on and be able to model for them a healthy relationship.

I left a relationship similar to this after nearly 20 years of being together. At first is was how you described, banter with the odd put down. Then I had to start writing everything kids and I were doing on a family planner ex bought us, whilst he could just go out with no notice. Things started to escalated when I got offered a part time job, on my first day he asked to jump in my vehicle for a lift to somewhere near my workplace, then got stroppy because he wanted me to come look at the place with him, when I said I didn’t have time he sulked for days. He insisted I make him a packed lunch everyday as it was my duty, when one day after looking after kids that were poorly with no help I asked him to make his own as other adults manage, he brought up my comment for 2 years every time he made his own packed lunch. There’s so many other things, but was a gradual process where in the last few years, I’d only get to go out once or twice a year, then be quizzed on everything my friends and I had talked about. I was being pressured to get rid of my own bank account, any money I’d spent from the joint account I’d be getting a call straight away as he’d set up notifications on the app, all sorts to the point I was a empty shell, I didn’t want to exist any more, I just kept going for the kids.
His behaviour then started to be directed towards children as well as me, one day he did something that was a step too far and I ended things there and then. (A whole other story as he refused to move out for nearly a year afterwards!)
But, life is so much better, kids were sad for a short while after he moved out (they didn’t know we’d separated, even though he was in spare room) sometimes I feel a little lonely, but I think every single parent does sometimes. Money is manageable, I was so embarrassed to have to start claiming universal credit, but I work part time and have a top up from that and I’m no longer quizzed over every pound I’ve spent. The freedom feels amazing!
Please be brave and realise you and your children deserve better.

Ps: this comment “ He puts me down, joking that I’m a retard if I do things wrong or picking/joking that I’m always late.” Shows that not only is he awful to you but he’s using some pretty nasty language about disabled people, I say this as a mother of someone who’s disabled.

My DF has always been the type to take the mick, comes from working in all male environments, but now I see it as bullying. It’s not nice to be on the receiving end, so when he does it I just look at him blankly and don’t engage.
I’ve also noticed that my DH will lie to make himself sound better. I wonder if it’s to do with getting older and losing their manly ‘status’ in the world.
Either way, you need to become more independent and prepare to end it.

You're basically describing a typical overt, grandiose narcissist. They are all absolutely vile. It's similar to psychopathy (in the same personality cluster).

Run for the hills!

Yes can totally recommend ‘Why does he do that’. Also ‘A wolf in sheep’s clothing’ -these two books were a massive wake-up call to me.

The thing about 'why does he do that' though is that the writer worked with violent abusers and whilst it's a great book I don't know if I would recommend it to op right now. It might make her think 'well he doesn't do that so it could be worse'.

I'd recommend instead watching youtube vloggers on narcissists. Melanie Tonia Evans is a good one.

There is however a 2 hour long video of Lundy bankroft talking on YouTube that,perhaps once you've watched a fair bit of the other stuff and know what you are dealing with, might be worth watching too. But I think bankrofts books are more for when you are safely out and recovering.

@Proudmumtoday

Read Why does he do that by Lundy Bancroft.

I second this.

I am reading this now OP. I too was unsure if I was in an abusive relationship until I read this. It’s been hard as I am now questioning the entire relationship (nearly 17 years) as his behaviour started right at the beginning. I knew something was wrong but ignored all the signs.

Be careful as it can escalate. It has in my circumstance - the less compliant I am the more abusive he becomes.

I am in the process of leaving him.

Good luck OP

Thanks guys! I am in the process of arranging a counsellor (just for me, don’t worry) which I’m hoping might make me feel stronger & more ready to make the necessary arrangements.
I can’t help but feel like maybe I am too critical of him at times too. I know if I mention the real reason for splitting, he will say I am just as bad. But I guess, either way, it isn’t a healthy relationship. I really don’t want to be financially screwed or alone….. or to have to put my children through a split, but I really cba with his s*!
That’s one other thing too, just like with you “Seasidevibes”, he got us a new bank account which notifies us/our phones every time a purchase is made. He will quite often ring & ask/complain about what I have spent, which fair enough can sometimes be quite a lot…. But only food shopping. He will quite often make big unnecessary purchases & when I question it, it’s like “well you use it too”, or “you leave the money to me”.
Oh 😣🤦🏻‍♀️

He's bloody awful OP. Please don't worry about the children. Men like this are utterly shitty fathers - of course it will be a huge change for them if / when he's not there any more, but they will be better off, as will you

It's really heartening to hear you taking those first steps towards getting out of the relationship. Keep going

@Frog87 I’m sorry to hear the money is being controlled too, you should be able to buy a large shop for the family without being questioned. It’s the disparity in what you can do and spend and what he can that’s concerning. Maybe start saving some money, you can have up to £4000 before you’re benefits are effected. Think about whether you need an occupation order on your family home. Woman’s aid are great, they can help guide you through the process and support you.