EA narrative backsliding?

[MontanaHana]

Does anyone have any experience of this or could they link to any information about it?

We are supposedly recovering though he still struggles to see it as an EA/EA territory. I think it was borderline, and unlike any other friendship I've seen him in: high levels of out if hours chatty/flirty messaging, it caused him to feel guilty and to lie and keep things from me, and he admits the lying/minimising was because he was worried that I "would think he was going along with her obviously fancying him". (For the record, no jealousy/OW drama in our relationship before this - all this hit me like a tonne of bricks when I cottoned on).

He agreed during therapy that the level of contact/nature of contact with her was "too much" and a "grey area", but more recently and since therapy has ended he seems to be saying that what was driving him was less about anything possibly EA-related and more about other circumstancial factors to do with acceptance.

I have pointed out that it is not necessarily one or the other, that from my perspective I believe the "other factors" are significant but that I see them as having led to EA behaviours with this woman. Despite his past admissions, then, about grey areas/"too much"/knowing I wouldn't like it but continuing anyway and hiding it, it feels to me like he is backtracking.

We have been doing well recently and I am a bit surprised to feel him trying to pedal back so much from any suggestion of emotional infidelity. If anything, I thought he would be more equipped now to handle conversing about this stuff with me. Part of my recovery was based on his acknowledgement of those aspects of what happened, even if we don't agree on the labels. But the gulf between our understandings seems to be widening again.

He has just confused me by suggesting that he felt pressured during therapy into saying some of those things (eg. being actively intrigued by and validating her apparently "not just friends" interest in him). I asked him to clarify what he means by this, as it is at odds with what I have been led to understand, but he is shutting down emotionally again just like in the beginning, saying he can't handle talking about it.

I don't know what to think. It's like the acknowledgement/ability to discuss things openly and "honestly" was only temporary or perhaps not so honest at all. Is it because he can't bear the guilt/being the bad guy or something? Does this make any sense? To be clear, I am not so worried about categorisation of EA or not, just concerned that again he seems to want to downplay the significance of the dodgier bits of his behaviour, to explain them away as something other than EA-like behaviours, despite what appeared like progress in the other direction during therapy.

@5128gap agree it is the behaviour that matters. And he does seem to have stopped talking with her and refocused on our relationship. But good behaviour isn't simply not cheating, it is also being honest and transparent, and not blaming your parter ("i lied because I was worried you would misinterpret it) for your own misdeeds. Good behaviour is owning your shit going forward, not casting off responsibility once you think you're through the worst of the consequences.

When you started the therapy, what was your aim? Did you think about breaking up with him over the affair? Did you have any specific conditions for staying together?

@ravenmum The aim for me was to get information and clarity on what happened and why he appeared guilty and to be lying. The aim for both of us was to save the relationship. I don't know if he had a personal aim. Probably just "go along with it" because that's basically his whole MO and the same trait that landed him in shit with this woman in the first place.

So the aim was for him to admit it, and he admitted it. And you stopped talking about it for a couple of months. But then you? he? brought it up again and it became clear he was backtracking. Does that mean that it didn't work and so you're going to break up?

Probably just "go along with it" because that's basically his whole MO and the same trait that landed him in shit with this woman in the first place.
So you feel like he's a pathetic yes-man, or have I misunderstood that? Is that a new feeling or have there always been signs of that?

@custardycreams - Yes! I agree with your post 100%.

Op - I don't know whether I've missed previous threads, but I don't feel I know enough about your circumstances to understand or advise. Do you have children? Is the relationship good enough overall for you to want to save it. How much are you willing to compromise to achieve a state where this episode in your lives is just that? A bump in the road? Because I think your fixation on the grey area, by definition unlikely to be agreed on, is in danger of being as/more destructive as the original transgression.

@MontanaHana

I'd be surprised. He has been really stressed by it all and claims to want our relationship more than anything. I'm not sure he would risk doing it again... which makes the backtracking quite difficult to understand. He knows that things have got better the more transparent/open he's been. Why start reversing that now, causing uncertainty about it etc?

This is interesting, because it appears to me that his recent take on it actually is him being open and transparent, as oppose to his previous stance in which he apparantly just went along with what he was supposed to say. I think that what you really mean, is that things have got better the more willing he is to accept full blame for what went on. However this is not the same as him being more honest, as he clearly doesn't really see it that way, and you can't force him to. You may need to accept that he feels there were mitigating factors, and that this is his honest opinion, albeit one you understandably don't share. I think that's a better basis on which to make decisions about whether you have a future than basing it on things he said because he thought you wanted to hear them.

@Tempusfudgeit

Life's too short. Break up.

This. Why do people try so hard to stay together

Baffling. It's not compulsory.
Be brave.

It's interesting he calls it a 'grey area' when it has in actuality caused you so much pain.

I'd find it hard to ever trust him again.

[quote MontanaHana]@5128gap agree it is the behaviour that matters. And he does seem to have stopped talking with her and refocused on our relationship. But good behaviour isn't simply not cheating, it is also being honest and transparent, and not blaming your parter ("i lied because I was worried you would misinterpret it) for your own misdeeds. Good behaviour is owning your shit going forward, not casting off responsibility once you think you're through the worst of the consequences.[/quote]
It's not about 'good behaviour'. There's no external set of rules we're meant to follow.

For my partner, it has to be 'behaviour that makes me feel good'

For your partner, it has to be 'behaviour that makes you feel good'

These behaviour-sets won't be the same. Different things will make you happy than me. You have to select people with whom you feel good, not people who behave according to the rules. 'Good behaviour' is for children, who do have a set of imposed rules, because they are incapable of making their own.

You have the power to choose what behaviour you surround yourself with, and you are choosing this man, who makes you feel messed up, confused, betrayed, suspicious.

Take responsibility. You are the only person who can remove this situation from your life. Your wellbeing is yours to nurture. You can't control or change his behaviour, and he doesn't want to. You have to do what you can to get away from all this bewilderment.

I take all your points. I can and do want to move on, with him, and I believe he is refocused on the relationship and has extricated himself from whatever grey area he was in. I just wish he was able to face up to the more difficult bits in a straightforward way.

OP he probably doesn’t know why himself. It could be any number of things including an escape from the stress of a pandemic. Apparently crushes etc have increased as a form of escapism. He knows he values your relationship and I suspect he has experienced inner turmoil over it. I wouldn’t keep giving it attention and move on from it, focus on the good things about your relationship and have fun together etc

People on here are being very black and white about this. I’m long relationships it’s unrealistic to think we would never find another person attractive or get on well with someone else. That’s not to say it shouldn’t be nipped in the bud to save hurt and turmoil but it should be accepted that attraction happens. What is important is how it is dealt with i.e. whether it is indulged or not,