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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Can you have too close a relationship with your mum?

11 replies

kumquat365 · 05/07/2021 12:23

Sorry this is so long. Trying not to drip-feed.

I have a cousin in her late 40s who never really flew the nest and whose life has always been centred on her mother. Her mum, my aunt, was a very strong personality — often generous and good company, but also manipulative. My aunt would invite me and my mum to visit and we'd have a lovely time, and then when Mum wasn't in the room my aunt would say something nasty about Mum that she knew would hurt. I fairly quickly wised up to her manipulation and always careful around her.

My cousin left home for university and then trained for a profession and lived independently for a few years. I lived in the same city at that time and we'd sometimes meet and she seemed happy and had friends, though she was on the phone to her mum several times a day and it was all a bit too 'Love you, Mum' for my taste. This was the 90s and my family didn't behave like that.

My cousin had a career up and running when her mum had an operation and she went back home to look after her for a while — and never left. She took a job where she could work mainly from home and did very well. About 10 years ago they went to live in a large beautiful house hundreds of miles away from me and most of the family. It's in an isolated position: no neighbours or village on the doorstep. They had a cleaner and a gardener who seemed to be the only contact they had with the outside world. I was asked to visit a couple of times a year and they were very hospitable, but they never talked about friends. They had fabulous holidays together — things I could never afford. It was an enviable lifestyle in some ways.

My mum died a few years ago after a long illness and earlier this year my aunt died. She was in her mid 80s and had been ailing for years, so it didn't seem unexpected to me. I was there, at my cousin's request, when my aunt died and my cousin seemed absolutely destroyed by it. In fact she told me that she and her mum had never talked about the mother's death because neither really thought she'd die. It was the opposite of my experience with my own mother: she'd planned her own funeral and would talk about it happily.

Anyway, it's become clear that my cousin doesn't have much of a social or support network. In the last few months she's leaned heavily on me and her cleaner for emotional and practical support. So much so that the cleaner has handed in her notice. I live a four-hour drive away and I have a full-time job. I can't just drive over there every time she has a low point.

I'm suspect she's tipping from the mild depression associated with grief into something darker and I've persuaded her to ask her GP for assistance. She's waiting to start CBT and is already saying that it's not going to work for her. We speak most days and she's always saying things like 'My life is over, there's no point in going on without Mum around' and 'I've just realised that I'll never go on holiday again. I couldn't possibly go on holiday on my own'.

I'm trying to listen and not offer solutions or point out that of course she'll go on holidays and she won't always feel this way, but it's hard work. It's been four months now and she seems as devastated as the day her mother died. I'm absolutely not expecting her to get over it, but I would have hoped for a little perspective by now. I'm also finding her helplessness difficult to cope with. There are times when I'm visiting where I feel that I'm dealing with a child. I suppose she's been used to someone controlling her life and she's not used to making her own decision. But I can't go on like this indefinitely.

Does anyone have any experience of a similar situation? I had quite a close relationship with my mum but I really don't think I can understand the intensity my cousin is going through.

OP posts:
AryaStarkWolf · 05/07/2021 12:28

It's still only been a few months and by the sounds of it they were incredibly close, I wouldn't worry just yet that she won't ever get over it

Optimist1 · 05/07/2021 12:34

The problem really seems to be not the closeness of their relationship, but the exclusion of all others. Had they developed a social circle, your cousin might have had a support network to help her through her grief.

I hope she'll benefit from the CBT/grief counselling, and that you won't be called on to give more than you can.

username18702 · 05/07/2021 12:36

Yes, in fact I thought you were one of my relatives at one point as this sounds exactly like my cousin. My aunt is still alive (as far as I know).

My aunt has several children, none are married, none have children and they all live at home in their 50s. I don't know what they are going to do when their mum dies as they are so enmeshed in the relationship.

My aunt is very overbearing but they all adore her. She's basically destroyed their lives. I have no idea how they'll cope when she's gone. You could put your cousin in touch with Cruse who offer grief counselling. That might be a good starting point and perhaps make sure your cousin visits her GP.

The problem here is that your cousin basically doesn't have a back bone that's why she's leaning on everyone so heavily as she has no resilience. She hasn't learned how to stand on her own two feet as her mother was always there doing things for her.

CBT won't be enough OP, she needs proper therapy but there isn't much you can do. She's gravitating towards someone else to take over her life, so I would encourage her to sell up and buy something smaller nearer town so she has a better chance of a social life.

FeistySheep · 05/07/2021 12:51

I agree with pp that the closeness between her and her mother (whether that was healthy or not) is less of an issue than the exclusion of others.
She does need to find a way to move forward with life, and at four months post-loss it might be a good time for most people to start doing that, maybe slowly. Everyone is different.
I think it's positive that she has lived independently in the past - she just needs to remember how. After that work on making friends, joining clubs, groups, whatever. But it'll all take time.

I'm not sure how much effort you're wanting to put in to help her OP? But if you do see a role for yourself, maybe start by just encouraging her on opening up to life slowly slowly. Re the holidays, can you use her mum's memory there... 'wouldnt your mum want you to travel again in the future and see more of the world?' 'It seems unlikely now, but you'll find other people to holiday with, different to your mum but still great' etc.

Bluedeblue · 05/07/2021 13:01

My aunt has several children, none are married, none have children and they all live at home in their 50s. I don't know what they are going to do when their mum dies as they are so enmeshed in the relationship

OMG this sounds horrific for the mother!

I know of someone who sounds similar to your cousin. This woman is in her 60''s and her 90+ year old mother passed away about 6 months ago - she was off work for months on end grieving and can now only manage part time work.

Re your cousin, I would just make yourself less available. The 4 hours distance is a blessing, it should be easy to minimise the contact.

username18702 · 05/07/2021 13:04

@Bluedeblue

My aunt has several children, none are married, none have children and they all live at home in their 50s. I don't know what they are going to do when their mum dies as they are so enmeshed in the relationship

OMG this sounds horrific for the mother!

I know of someone who sounds similar to your cousin. This woman is in her 60''s and her 90+ year old mother passed away about 6 months ago - she was off work for months on end grieving and can now only manage part time work.

Re your cousin, I would just make yourself less available. The 4 hours distance is a blessing, it should be easy to minimise the contact.

No, she loves it. She won't go on holiday as she wants to spend every single living breathing moment with her middle aged children. I remember once her phoning me on a Friday night about 9pm because her 30 year old daughter hadn't answered the phone. She was having an anxiety attack. She was phoning around everyone she knew.
Groundtoahalt · 05/07/2021 13:22

This sounds a bit like the basis for a horror film to me...from either perspective!

I wonder if part of your cousin's grief is the dawning realisation that she has sacrificed her own life for so long that she now has nothing else in it.

EvenMoreFuriousVexation · 05/07/2021 13:25

@username18702 - I have a similar aunt and she also revels in it. My whole family on my mums side is incredibly dysfunctional, co-dependent, and incredibly enmeshed. My aunt gave up driving about 20 years ago after having a very minor car accident (no injuries.) she gave up using the bus about 5 years ago after one day when the bus driver didn't stop at the right stop so she had to walk an extra 3 minutes down the road (no mobility issues.) Her husband therefore drives everyone everywhere, as my cousins (both mid 40s) can't possibly learn to drive as its FAR too dangerous. Husband does all "man" tasks but is incapable of coping with doctor, dentist, any sort of admin, cooking, when my cousins were young he couldn't cope with anything to do with school.

My mum is a toxic nightmare and I'm NC with her now but she equally revelled in learned helplessness and passive aggression and frequently asked me to do things "for her" as it was "too dangerous" (but apparently she was, fine with me "endangering" myself on her behalf!) This would be the radically risky task of purchasing something on Amazon.

Sorry OP that's no help to you - but this sort of situation is sadly not uncommon. I honestly view it now as a form of parental neglect - I consider my job as a mum is to raise my son to be a happy, healthy, well rounded and capable adult. Not keep him tied to my apron strings with invented fears.

I think for her own good it's now at the stage where you can gently challenge some of her thinking, as she sounds like she's clinging onto old unhelpful beliefs - I think that's pretty common after such a bereavement.

You mentioned she mainly works from home - maybe suggest she considers working from the office more often? She'd be in contact with mire people, which even if she doesn't gain actual friends, it's still widening her world and providing human interaction, which sounds painfully lacking.

You sound a lovely caring person. I hope she is able to accept the support that you're able to offer.

kumquat365 · 05/07/2021 18:14

Thanks for all your thoughts. I agree that the lack of any friends or a support circle is a huge element but I think username18702 is actually, sadly, on the money. My aunt was overbearing in what most of the time seemed like an entertaining sort of way, but even so I think it's stalled my cousin's development. My aunt always ruled the roost: she decided what they ate, she chose furniture and even my cousin's clothing. She decided where they'd go on holiday and so on. It's almost as if my cousin needs to grow up overnight and start learning how to make her own decisions.

Someone said that she'll need more than CBT and I suspect that's right. At the moment I'm not sure that she has any idea of how her mother controlled her and possibly no sense of having missed out on some key stages in life.

I will try Cruse: thanks for the advice.

OP posts:
Maggiesfarm · 05/07/2021 19:33

That's sad kumquat. However her bereavement is fairly recent, it takes time to get over the death of someone to whom you were close even when they are elderly.

I'm not sure about CBT in this instance (& other instances), but CRUSE may be able to help her. They are very good. I see someone else has mentioned that.

It sounds as though you are a good friend to your cousin, I'm sure she appreciates it. Good for you.

Ijsbear · 05/07/2021 20:55

An old writer who is very wise said that one can honour your parents but every adult has to break away to become their own person.

From the sound of it, your cousin was unable to break away.

Her mother frankly did not do her job of encouraging her to become independent and emotionally your cousin is probably very much a child in some ways. She's been caught in the web of her mother's engulfing love and rather darker manipulation.

Getting more social contact and therapy are going to be the only hopes now - maybe a club of some sort? walking, or whatever interests she might like to develop? but in the end, I think your cousin is going to miss her mother bitterly for the rest of her life. Building up outside interests will help her live with and around the loss though. (personally I think going out in the countryside / nature and exercise is quite helpful, even if she doesnt realise it at the time)

You yourself can't provide the emotional support she will want though, because she will in turn engulf you and you actually probably aren't what she wants anyway - she wants her mum back. Protect yourself here; don't drain yourself dry, give what you have spare.

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