I'm an only child - strained relationship with my mum over Covid

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My mum's been radicalised by YouTube conspiracy people about Covid, lockdown, the vaccines, masks etc.
She's gotten deep into YouTube conspiracies, following all sorts of 'experts' and 'activists' which has filled her head with nonsense and has also made her really, really angry.

There are a couple of ironies/paradoxes with her radicalisation. The first is that she's very vulnerable to Covid being over 65, obese (probably morbidly), having Diabetes, and having COPD.
The second is that me and DP both work in antibody science, vaccine manufacturing type of areas (DP works with AZ and Pfizer) so she has pretty good access to 'experts' on this stuff but opts for YouTube people instead.

Here's my issue: Her anger at everything and complete reluctance to listen to any kind of nuance is really putting a strain on our relationship. We only speak once a week anyway but our calls now mainly consist of her shouting down the phone at me about whatever Covid-related bee she has in her bonnet that day.
The funny thing is that I agree with some of what she says on some issues but (a) she doesn't let me get a word in, and (b) her views are often very black/white whereas I can see grey areas.

I don't feel like I can distance myself much more - we only speak once a week, and see each other once a year at Christmas (apart from 2020). As an only child, I feel a huge burden of responsibility so I don't feel I can go NC but phone calls with her genuinely ruin my Saturday mornings. They are so draining and it takes me a while to pick myself back up.

Sorry, this has turned into a massive woe-is-me! Basically, do any other only children find themselves in this kind of situation with a strained relationship? What do you do? How do you manage it?

I should add that I absolutely have asked her to stop shouting on the phone but she denies that she is.

I have absolutely suggested that we don't talk about Covid but she still does, she just gets to it in a roundabout way.

I have absolutely tried just nodding and 'uh huh-ing' at her but she will then ask me direct questions about things so I have to answer.

There are some subjects my DM and I just don't go near. Every now and again, one creeps in - bloody forriners, covid doesn't really exist, right wing (or any) politics.

I just sit quietly till she finished then change the subject entirely.

If that doesn't work, I'll laugh and say "oh you and I will never agree on this, let's not stress ourselves about it" or something like that.

If it still doesn't work, I don't see her or call her for a while and it usually sorts itself

By the way, she's bloody lucky I see her at all given her history of emotional abuse but that's for another thread

Put the phone down when she shouts.

You don't have to put up with her shouting at you just because she doesn't have other children.

Don't see this as a big decision affecting your relationship, just tell her you won't be shouted at and hang up.

Can you change the timing of your call so it doesn't ruin the weekend? Maybe move it to Monday evening?

If she even starts on covid say "mum, we're not going to talk about this" and have a few alternative things you can start taking about - garden/books/recipes. Or just say "sorry mum I'm not getting into this debate now, I'll speak to you next week" and hang up?

I feel for you as we have several friends like this including one of my oldest closet friends, who is also CEV. Their is no reasoning with them & I have fallen out & now NC with a few as they didn't like my correcting their bull. I even felt sorry for friends who've just emigrated to Oz yesterday as they had a really hard time with flights, being detained fir 28 days when they finally arrived etc. That was until I realised they'd taken the dickhead anti mask stance & refused to wear them on planes or airports , so serves them bloody right

I've consoled myself with reading up psychology stuff on the Spanish flu that shows what they do is a known & well documented fear response... it happened back then too & I just hope they all get through this & when it's all over we can be friends again

In your situation I'd suggest recording your DMs rants & play them back to her. Tell her then that you love her, but cannot have these conversations with her any more as it's both an insult to your work & is making you dread talking to her. Tell her that you will put the phone down on her if she continues to ignore your reasonable request to keep the conversations on topics that don't wind you up so much. & then do it with "I love you, but I'm not having this conversation. Talk later when you can respect my boundaries"

Good luck

Urgh, excuse grammar etc, little sleep & brain dead atm

I feel your pain. My mother, every convo for years was about how much she hated my dad & how he wronged her.

Covid: every convo we have lately is my dad moaning about people who haven't got the covid jab. He doesn't want me to say "pro choice" things about the vacc. He doesn't know I'm a Lockdown Skeptic sympathiser.

It's like they were sent to make us master skills of changing the topic.

Thanks so much for all these replies.

I've tried telling her to stop shouting but she denies that she's shouting - she does talk loudly on the phone so I guess she maybe doesn't realise she's shouting. Maybe.

Maybe I need to threaten to hang up.

I try to avoid the Covid topic every time we talk, I've suggested we talk about something else, I've subtly and unsubtly changed the subject numerous times.
But she always brings it back to Covid in some roundabout way because she spends all her time on YouTube listening to her activists/experts. For example, she asked me the other day if I was watching the men's football. I said no and asked if she had, which she used an an in-road to tell me how she wouldn't watch anything on the BBC because of all their lies about Covid and to rant about there being fans allowed at football

As I said in the OP, I agree with some of the stuff she says but she's just so damn angry about it and sees it all so black/white.

I think in light of your last post that you need to be really tough with her

"Mum, I've told you I'm not having that ridiculous conversation as you're talking nonsense. Respect my boundaries & stop insulting my intelligence by expecting me to listen or we will be falling out" & repeat every time, followed by putting the phone down with an exasperated sigh if she carries on with "you're not hearing me are you, ill speak again when you can respect my boundaries " & put the phone down

I’d say, in as calm a voice as possible: “You sound angry and you are shouting. I find this stressful/upsetting, so I’m going to end the call here. Take care. Goodbye.”

Say it slowly to give her time to take in what you are saying, and then put the phone down, don’t get into any discussion.

Thank you both. I think its getting to the point where it needs to come to a head with me threatening to hang up, and then actually doing it.

The trouble is I know she will use this as evidence in her own mind that I don't want to hear the "truth" about Covid. I suppose I need to just let her think that and move on.

When the vaccines were first on the cards, she told me about the microchips that they (who?) had put in them. Drawing on my years of experience in biopharmaceutical manufacturing, I explained at length in lay terms why putting a microchip into a vaccine formulation would be nigh-on impossible. She took this as evidence that I'd been brainwashed by them

The issue isn't her Covid beliefs per se so much as how she treats me and speaks to me, and how agitated she gets. But all of that behaviour stems from her Covid beliefs so the two are kind of entwined (especially around the question of expertise).

What I mean is that I don't massively care if she has a particular set of beliefs about Covid. What bothers me is that she gets so damn angry about it then takes that anger out on me.

As an only child, I find it hard to deal with because she doesn't really have anyone else to talk to.

I am an only child and NC with my mum. Honestly, the only child thing never really played into my decision. It's perhaps slightly different because your mum's behaviour is causing issues for your peace and quality of life, and mine was doing that but also legitimately put my children's safety at risk. So I do genuinely want to have no relationship with her.

But in your case, I would just ease up on the contact for your mental health. There is no rule that we need to talk with our parents every week. Even when my mum and I had a normal relationship, I still only talked to her maybe 1-2 times a month. Cut out the regular phone calls. Maybe it every other week and then every 3-4 weeks. I'm not sure you even need to tell her the reason unless she asks. Just be unavailable.

You don’t have to listen to this rubbish just because you’re related. You don’t have to get her approval before you hang up on her. Tell her she’s being annoying, if she doesn’t simmer down, then say “well ok bye got to go”. And if she does the same next week, well then maybe you skip a week. Or two.

Yup, cutting down the phone calls would be good. We used to speak every day (sometimes multiple times per day) but I had to cut that down because I didn't feel like I had any free time.

That's interesting that you didn't factor being an only child into your NC @mindutopia For me, that's always at the forefront of my thinking. But then my mum plays a blinding woe-is-me routine which I think I've internalised.

@remmy6

Hi, Well, to throw myself under a bus, I am strongly in the camp of being pandemic skeptical. I am what the MSM would label a 'Conspiracy Theorist' - however, IMO, I am just open minded with the information I have found. I really try not to force my opinions on others, unless they specifically ask for my opinion, in which case, I won't lie, but I won't be aggressive either. You Mum is probably like me; scared for humanity, but doesn't have an outlet to share her concerns, other than you (whereas I will find places online to have discussions, and a few people in real life who have said they are happy to talk about it). She is possibly aggressive because she is worried about you, but there is nothing stopping you from drawing up your own boundaries of "acceptable" and hanging up if she crosses them (after telling her, of course). Please, just be as kind as possible. Of course if she has always been like this, pre Covid, then do what you need to do to stay sane. The last thing we need to do during these times is divide people, more than they already are. We all need to come from a place of understanding, but it is difficult because the theories that exist (the credible ones) are terrifying. And NO; I don't think there are 5G chips in the vaccines. Some conspiracies are born to discredit anyone who dares question the official MSM/govt narrative, and that is one of them.

You're not throwing yourself under a bus at all. As I said, this isn't really about Covid per se so much as how angry she is over everything, and how she uses my earhole as an outlet for that. It could be about anything really - her becoming an evangelical Christian while I'm firmly atheist. It just happens to be about Covid.

Although the expertise issue is a big factor.

Boundaries. You need to create boundaries. When you ask her not to mention Covid, if she does again explain if she continues you will put the phone down. Same with her ranting etc.

You don't have to put up with this.

I used to hold the phone out to empty space for 20 seconds or so (at a time) when my mother was on a droning diatribe about my dad.

@ineedanewnameplease

Boundaries. You need to create boundaries. When you ask her not to mention Covid, if she does again explain if she continues you will put the phone down. Same with her ranting etc.

You don't have to put up with this.

You're absolutely right, I don't have to put up with this. Thank you!

@lljkk

I used to hold the phone out to empty space for 20 seconds or so (at a time) when my mother was on a droning diatribe about my dad.

Ha, I do this too. It's very therapeutic!

I also potter while I'm on the phone to her so she hasn't got my undivided attention. Cleaning the loo has never been so much fun!

@remmy6

The expertise issue is probably the biggest issue, isn't it? I have a hard time justifying myself because my facts are never official "facts", just "conspiracies" (e.g. I could find 100 coindences, but they don't make something a fact to you - however, to me, it's enough "evidence" to determine it a "likely fact")

Whereas your Mum might be stating that some of your sources are biased (eg. government funded) even though they are "officially" accurate, and therefore she is considered crazy to disagree with people who have qualifications (even though those qualification have come through the govt controlled system, which she might not trust)

So it depends on who you are and how you feel about the "system", rather than the fact/fact source, if that makes sense.

This is what makes the discussion IMPOSSIBLE sometimes, and why it is important to (1) ALWAYS keep an open mind (2) try and see other people's point of view (3) try not to get heated, because no one can ever be proved right, we are all fighting a losing battle (until we have the benefit of hindsight in the future!)

Ultimately I think we are mostly good people, wanting the best for our family, friends and society. I'm not spreading my views for the intent of harm, completely the opposite.

The expertise thing is part of it but it's not the biggest issue. The issue is her attitude towards me and just how madly angry she is.

I mean, I absolutely understand the anger of repeated lockdowns, the massively overblown rhetoric around universal risk, the hypocrisy of government figures breaking their own rules etc etc. I get it. I agree. But, to me, my mum's anger is really over-the-top, especially given she hasn't really been affected that badly. And she takes that anger out on me and that's what I have issues with.

Yes, the expertise issue does factor into that because part of her anger comes from theories/ideas which are completely scientifically wrong, and she absolutely won't listen to why that is completely wrong.

I kind of understand your point about "the system" but there are somethings which are just absolute scientific facts and which have, moreover, been the basis of epidemiology/public health interventions and vaccine production for years and years and years.

I’m not an only child but I’m the only one who calls my mum (history of EA in the family). We have topics we don’t talk about - I have told her I won’t discuss them and I tell her again if she brings them up. It was really hard at first but has got easier with time and with every repetition of the boundary.

I think I would give her lots of undivided attention when she discusses everyday things in a reasonable manner but stop listening or tell her I have to go if she goes into rant mode. Maybe saying, "'we'll have to agree to disagree on this thing, got to go."

Just a couple of thoughts though: Could she be getting hard of hearing or is she only loud when agitated?
Has she always been easily led and prone to angry outbursts of could these things be a sign or her becoming unwell in some way?