Can a marriage really survive without sex?

[Moomin]

Friend of mine is very lacking in self-esteem and self-confidence. She also hasn't had sex since before her dd (3 and a half)was born. She and her dh have issue with the two kids' sleeping arrangements; they both get into bed with her in the night and they all end up playing 'musical beds' until they get some sleep. But part of me thinks it 'suits' her not to have the kids sleeping in their own beds so she doesn't have to face sleeping in the same bed as her all night.

She says she enjoyed sex when they 1st got together but that she never really fancied her dh and since the kids came along she's just not interested at all. Her dh is a nice bloke who still obviously loves and fancies her. She says she can't ever see herself wanting sex with him again and thinks maybe he deserves to find another relationship where he can enjoy a healthy sex life, but admits she'd hate it if they split up.

I suggested counselling to her (which she's said her dh would be willing to do) but she recoiled from the idea and said she thinks they'd make her do all sorts of 'foreplay-type stuff' and touching which she said she'd refuse to do.

She's a lovely girl and I'd love to be able to advise her but I can't imagine not wanting to have sex with my own dh - I know how much intimacy and love it promotes in our relationship, so I'm probably not the best person to give any support maybe? I feel sorry for both of them; I feel like they're both missing out, and more seriously, their marriage is slowly slipping away. I've seriously wondered about writing to Gok about her!!

...and sneaking can be very sexy too!!

I heartily agree with crokky

It's not as if she desires her dh and doesn't know where to start again though; she simply wants him to forget they ever had a sex life and is kind of asking him to accept this and live as flatmates and co-parents of their two dcs.

BTW, yes agree - it's a great article. Feel like cutting it out and showing it to her.

Oh I really disagree with quietly on " men that do stray would do so whatever was happening within their relationship". In my last relationship I was the one who had a couple of one night stands behind his back yet it had nothing to do with cheating being an intrinsic part of my character and everything to do with the general state of the relationship. Among many other things his extremely low interest in sex. For the last 5 years I have been with my dh we have had a very healthy sex life in which we are both fulfilled and my eye has not wandered once. Not even slightly. I know myself and sex is very important to me and I would be very concerned about losing this aspect of my relationship with dh.

I also agree with (sorry I can´t remember who said it) the poster who said about the more you have it the more you want it. We have a 6.5 month ds and it is hard to find the time and energy but if we´ve been particularly lazy and once more I find myself thinking ´oh I just can´t be arsed´ when dh does that snuggling up to me as I go to sleep I often just think to myself " oh go on, you know it´ll be worth it". Kind of like making yourself get off your bum and off to the gym cos you know you´ll feel all smug afterwards for having managed it and it always is.

I don´t know what to suggest re. your friend, it sounds like she wouldn´t take your advice anyway..but in answer to your question, once again I agree with several posters that yes, if both partners are happy. And if they aren´t both happy I can´t possibly see how a marriage can survive long-term because the one who isn´t getting any will end up either looking elsewhere or feeling resentment, hurt, unattractive, unwanted, rejected etc etc etc and well, that´s just not very conducive to a happy relationship really.

its only a matter of time before her DH looks for sex elsewhere- sorry but it's a fact.

To answer the OP's question - the answer is yes.

In response to the last poster - it is not a fact.

It is a fact ok MOST men can't live the rest of their lives without sex and nor should they be expected to.

The OPs friend DH sounds like a young man that does want IT.

it may not be a fact but it is very very likely.

Moomin - does the thought of losing her dh over this change her pov at all?

Oh, bless your Victorian attitude, Goldfish. What an absolute load of b*llocks - I can only assume you're either a)bored, and looking for a good barney or b)bored, and looking for a laugh.

BTW - can you provide a link to the fact that states that most men can't live the rest of their lives without sex? I'm DYING to see your research.

steady on there everyone! Sounds like some of you need to jolly good seeing to .... JOKE!!

Anyyyyywayyyyy, yes, when we've asked her about life without her dh, she admits she wouldn't like it at all (note, she didn't say she'd be devastated) as she thinks she is quite happy with the status quo and could live like this indefinitely. However, she knows deep-down she's very unhappy. In fact, not even that deep-down. She's on ADs and has been for a fair while. TBH her problems are many and complex, I think and waaaay beyond my capacity as am advisor/friend whatever. I just think it's a shame and I'd love to be able to help but some things aren't quick-fix and they're also maybe not my place to do something about?

I feel sorry for her DH. I don't think its fair for him to spend his life with someone who doesn't fancy him. He must feel awful.

On the other hand if it really grosses her out that can't be good for him either.

Maybe they need counseling thats not overtly sexual in nature.

moomin, you sound like a very caring friend.

I remember reading something along the lines of that female libido is often significantly diminished post pregnancy (worries about getting pg again)

In simple terms; I've done my bit, don't want anymore. thank you very much.

It DOES not mean you do not love or care for your dh/p.

I don't know really, I think it can be like this but certainly not for everyone. Yes, I guess contraception or rather the worry about getting preg again when you might not want to would put a strain on things.

After dd1 sex was stressful because we were ttc dd2 and didn't get anywhere for 2 years - awful really, sex was like a necessary evil and all the fun went away. But since dh had the snip when dd2 was 12m old, it's been fab. Even when we weren't having much sex though because of pregnancies, newborns, tiredness etc etc, I still felt close to dh because we're good mates as well as fancying one another. I get the impression my friends isn't really good mates with her dh.

"...to spend his life with someone who doesn't fancy him. He must feel awful."

Oh, I never said it doesn't feel awful

What a lot of you seem to be saying is that if she wants to keep her marriage going, then she has to put out and shut up! WHich seems more than a little harsh.

I hated that article. It was so unsympathetic to women. What it seemed to be saying that women are not allowed to change. They have to continue to have the same desire for sex that they had at first and if they don't then they have to get on with it anyway because their man needs it Men do not need sex to survive. That's what they have a right hand for isn't it? They need food, water and sleep. They do not need sex. They might want it, they might think they need it, it might make them feel great, but they don't need it. And I don't suppose a frustrated man makes for a great relationship, but neither does a woman forced to have unwilling sex.

yes a marriage can survive without sex, if thats what you both agree. A marraige is a partnership and it is possible to have a deep, romantic, intense, supportive relationship that is not sexual.

however that wasn't what you are asking, you are asking what to do about the situation when one partner doesn't want sex and the other still does. The only answer is counselling of some kind, its bloody hard work but if you dont' then you either end up in a miserable relationship or splitting up.

I do not think you really need to have counselling - that seems to be the solution to everything these days, but in reality it is something you have to agree as a couple to deal with, or perhaps ignore, even if tacitly rather than openly.

No amount of counselling will create desire.

counselling can be self counselling, I guess I meant that whether with someone else's help or on your own you need to talk about it. I don't think tacitly agreeing to ignore it is any kind of answer, how on earth can you make the assumption that your partner is okay with the situation?

Counselling or talking things through may not create desire but it can certinaly help remove things that are blocking your ability to express it.

But how do we define "need". I think I need sex - not in a live/die sense, but without sex my life is much diminished, in the same way it would be if I lived without love, or friendship, or intellectual stimulation. I couldn't stay in a sexless marriage.

I agree with Minum and others. I was with my xh for 18 years, 11 of them married, and we have 2 kids. We separated 4 years ago basically because he had no interest in sex with me. We had been virtually celibate for years - the longest we went without having sex was 2 years. I knew when we married that his interest in (marital) sex was less than mine.

In my view, the sexual relationship is a fundamental part of marriage. Of course desire waxes and wanes, especially during the pregnancy and young children stage. Where I went wrong was thinking that fundamentally differing sex drives could somehow be overcome. We were never compatible and I should have realised that this would be a source of great pain to me.

To me having sex is the ultimate expression of love for your partner, and special because you don't do it with anyone else. To unilaterally withdraw that from your partner is unkind, and to expect them to put up with it forever is unrealistic, though I'm sure some do. Therefore it is very threatening to the long term happiness of your relationship.

I have known 2 men out of 6 for whom regular sex was not an issue (in their 20's and no they weren't closet homosexuals either) so it's hardly a given or a fact that men will stray if they don't get any......

Hi Wisteria (waving)
No, it's certainly stereotyping men to assume they 'have needs' and WILL stray - that's grossly unfair to men to general about their sexuality. They may not, even if they are missing the sex, because they just love the woman so much and sex is part of that for them, rather than a 'need'. Any more than the assumption that women don't 'have needs' (tales my mother told me ). It's just sad that, if this woman's husband loves her, he should miss out on expressing that part of his love, and it must be very sad for him to know she doesn't return his desire...

Afternoon

I won't tell a soul !