Is this sexual abuse (sorry graphic) or is it his fault?

[donjack]

I am asking this as I am concerned about a close male friend.

He is quite vulnerable as a victim of childhood neglect and abuse and suffers from childhood complex PTSD which I feel has been triggered by a close relationship he has formed with a woman I feel is very toxic.

He made friends with her and she and because she was very full-on with him, he became reliant on emotionally. She sort of ingratiated herself into his life as his new best friend very quickly and he became dependent on her in all sorts of ways (emotionally, socially and so on).

She was interested in a romantic relationship with him, but he did not reciprocate or return that interest. He said repeatedly he only wanted to be friends, refused sex many times, refused her efforts to kiss him or hold his hand and so on, but regardless, sex happened quite regularly.

This would occur because although he was telling her he did not want it and just wanted to be friends, it became quite normal for them to go back to her house for drinks after a night out. When this happened, she would try and have sex with him or kiss him and cry asking why he didn't love her or want her, he would try and calm her down and she would basically get on her knees and unzip him and start (fill in the blank) and this happened repeatedly over many months.

Do you think this is sexual abuse / coercion?

The relationship with her in a broader sense was extremely toxic, and she engaged in severe emotional abuse and manipulation, but he seems to think it is all his fault for repeatedly having sex with her.

I'm interested to know what people think about this, as I am very uncomfortable with the idea of a man saying he didn't want sex, romance and so on and a woman basically unzipping him when he was drunk.

Thoughts?

Yes it’s abuse and coercion.

Switch the roles, your friend is female, it definitely looks like abuse now. We often overlook male abuse as we think men are physically strong enough and can leave, are always “up for it” etc.

Bottom line is he is vulnerable and she is exploiting that. He will need professional help though to realise that- he may not realise it’s abuse himself.

That is definitely sexual abuse. He has clearly said no and she went ahead anyway. If the roles were reversed this wouldn't even be a question. The difficult part is getting him to understand that and then to leave the relationship and avoid this woman.

As you have written it here, yes it would be repeated sexual assault of her on him in a coercion/controlling type of domestic abuse.

You say he is vulnerable and has cPTSD, does he have a care coordinator or a psychiatrist under a Mental Health Team? If so, he should tell them about this and they can alert social services that there is a safe guarding issue.

If not, I’m not sure what he can do other than self refer to social services. Perhaps someone else will post with advice.

Yes this would be sexual abuse/coercion. He is not giving consent. He is saying no. He needs to stop seeing this person immediately under no circumstances should he be going to her house.

The situation appears to be over now, but he is struggling mentally with the effects of it all.

I think he's very deeply locked in a trauma bond with this woman :( At the time all of it was first happening, she had made him sort of dependent on her for basically everything with the love bombing and also isolating him from others. Before very long they literally spent 24 hours a day together and if he did not agree to this or wanted time alone, she would have a tantrum.

Initially for several months she was his new best friend and made him feel really cared for and safe. Then she would have outbursts and aggressive and threatening behavior if he didn't do what she wanted, then she would blame him / blame alcohol and say it was just because she loved him so much.

She kept saying she wanted a relationship, he kept saying he didn't want one, but he was so dependent on her caring and affection he didn't want to lose her completely so he was sort of unable to let her go.

When he finally walked away because her behavior got so bad and scary (police had to get involved), she engaged in fairly extreme stalking (unwanted gifts, constant communication, showing up at his house, threatening him personally as well as his loved ones and generally trying to ruin his life) over several months.

She told him all of this was because she loved him so much (he seems attached psychologically to believing this is true and struggles with seeing her as the abuser I think she is), and over the period she was stalking him he became very ill with complex PTSD symptoms (depression, dissociation, extreme anxiety and withdrawal from loved ones and so on).

He had to get legal help to stop her from stalking him, and once she stopped stalking, she discarded him completely and moved onto someone else she was in love with within a few weeks. When this happened, he seemed to experience a deep sense of loss.

He then seemed to go through a period of longing and almost craving for her, and seems unable to let go of the idea she is kind and caring and maybe if he had just given her what she wanted (a romantic relationship) then she would have been happy and they would have had some idyllic relationship.

He seems to constantly hark back to how kind she was to him and how safe and peaceful he felt when she was his best friend before her "bad behavior started" and he almost completely discounts how terrible her behavior actually was.

He thinks it's all his fault, he seems to believe he had sex with her / took advantage of her when he knew she had feelings for him, but I think a woman who basically starts repeatedly sucking off a man who is drunk and has said he doesn't want that is crossing a worrying line :(

I feel it might take him a long time to unravel that he has been abused, because he seems to feel this is all his fault and that this person is / was kind and caring and that he has lost something.

It's all quite unhinged

I'd also add, that once the manipulation of his genitals started, he enjoyed the sex. Which is why I think he struggles to see it as sexual abuse. But in the broader sense, he says he didn't want to have sex with her. So it's a confusing set of circumstances for him

I'm sorry for your friend's experiences. This woman was abusive and they would never have had a 'happy ever after'. Unfortunately because of the childhood abuse and neglect he will struggle to understand what a healthy relationship looks like. Also, even if the sexual behaviour was consensual at the time, her other behaviour towards him is enough for him to walk away and try to put it behind him.

Yes, I see that.

She seems to have successfully convinced him that she herself is the vulnerable one, that her ex was abusive, that she had childhood abuse (maybe all true) and that he has abused her by leading her on / engaging in a sexual relationship when he knew she was in love with him.

It's quite a twisted situation, but it concerns me that he seems to not be able to see her in a negative light and while she has moved on to "happiness" with some new person, he seems deeply damaged by the situation which occurred.

Yes the truth with abusers though is that it is entirely possible that she loved him and she was abusing him. It's not an either/or situation. It's great that he's out of it either way.

He's an adult. He doesn't have to go back to her place knowing what she's going to do.

He's been enjoying telling you all about his sex life in graphic detail, attention seeking to provoke your naive emotional response.

Talking sex is well-recognised as sex abuse; its what dirty phone calls are all about. They get off on shocking anyone dumb enough to listen.

It seems to me, if there's any sex abuse going on, it's by him and you are his victim.

Therapy

It sounds to me as though they were actually in a relationship. They spent all or most of their time together, they held hands, they went out together and drank so much that she initiated sex (and he didn't have the willpower to say no). Either that, or there was abuse on both sides - her for the sex, and him for allowing her to do it when he knew he didn't feel the same way that she did.

Definitely coercion and sexual abuse.

She is manipulative and has managed to twist the narrative so that she is the victim while he lead her on. He is trauma bonded with her so he will have conflicting feelings. Eventually, he will see that the situation was toxic and unhealthy for him, but he really needs to get therapy for his healing and recovery.

@2bazookas

He's an adult. He doesn't have to go back to her place knowing what she's going to do.

He's been enjoying telling you all about his sex life in graphic detail, attention seeking to provoke your naive emotional response.

Talking sex is well-recognised as sex abuse; its what dirty phone calls are all about. They get off on shocking anyone dumb enough to listen.

It seems to me, if there's any sex abuse going on, it's by him and you are his victim.

This is my reading too.

The whole thing sounds toxic, they are both alcoholics and I imagine the reality of the situation is much less one sided than it appears.

And the fact you know so much detail of it is beyond fucked up.

I’ve spend years doing the rounds of group therapy and I feel like I’ve met both these people many times.

I did wonder if potentially there was tow very dysfunctional people involved her. It's a shame though to see him so unwell mentally as a result of what went on and how he seems unable to see that it's not entirely his fault.

I agree with PP, what is motivating him to tell you all this? If he's serious then he needs to speak to a professional.

We're friends, there's no motivation other than discussing it all and trying to help a friend through a trauma and subsequent breakdown.

I am struggling to see it as abuse. He enjoyed the sex. I suspect he also enjoyed making her work for it.