Having therapy for abusive mother, it's hard going

[IncessantNameChanger]

I'm mid forties and have posted under various names about my mum.a few times since I realised it was abuse about five years ago.

I have had CBT twice and talking therapy about my hoarding tendencies but never gone into why hoarding started as a physical wall in my teens to keep my mum out of my room.

I thought it's the right time to look at why I hoard. It's got much better over the years and I'm practically living a normal but sometimes cluttered life.

My God it's so painful talking about my mum. She is 76 and hasnt seen my kids since last March saying it's not allowed dispite her, me and dh being double vaxxed.

The therapist has explained my mum simply doesnt want to see us, which I know really but saying things out loud hurts more than I expected.

I cant really say this to anyone. I have come to unpleasant conclusion that closure can come one way.

I know she will never change or say sorry and I honestly dont care, she is dangerous and I dont trust her. I dont like her.

Cant quite say those words to my therapist. The power she has over me stops when she dies. How sad is that to say. I get final closure once she has gone. She still wants to hurt me now and I let her.

It's so unfair but my abuser is my mother. She cant ever be anyone else to me but my abuser can she? With no acknowledgement from her of what she did, we can ever move on from abuser and victim?

I wish I could hate her. It would make my choices simple but life isnt as simple as that.

She is a horrible person but I pity her.

My heart goes out to you. I experienced abuse from my DM. I was completely in thrall to her. It took me years to realise that I actually hated her and her values. However, I was completely enmeshed with her from a very young age and she used me to facilitate her affairs, thereby exposing me to sexual abuse as a young child. I'm ashamed to say that she was very wealthy and controlled through money. She died very suddenly five years ago. She died intestate. The majority of her wealth has gone to my alcoholic step father. The loss of her was devastating. It felt terrifying and liberating. However, I still ache everyday for her. I can't get her out of my head. My relationship with her was so emotionally incestuous that it left me without a sense of self. I am still struggling to be me even though she has been in her grave through five winters.

Ps I also struggle with hoarding

I am.really sorry to hear of your experiences too @Geppili. It feels like the ultimate shame that the one person who should lived me and protected me unconditional in actual probabilities hates me.

I forever feel unworthy. I dont wish my mum dead I just think it would stop the stupid subconscious idea that things might improve to a tolerable level. I'm.sorry this hasnt been the case for you. Maybe I need to face up the possibility it might not be for me either

I'm sorry for your loss.

It is very hard. I suppose I wanted to protect you from thinking you will necessarily be free of her when she dies. The grief is unbearable because one is grieving the 'normal' mother one never had. My mother never admitted that she was going to die. She had such grandiose self belief. One of my siblings cut off. No contact for 20 years. She did come to my mother's awful funeral. She told me briefly it was to make sure she really was dead and buried!

I used to be so scared of my mother's/abuser's power that I would only whisper about her in therapy in case she overheard. She lived hundreds of miles away.

I find it very difficult reflecting on what was going on in my corrupt and abusive family as my children grow up. I find it very triggering and heart breaking.

Btw O acknowledge what harm your mother did to you. I believe you and understand how catastrophic maternal abuse can be.

I think it’s really hard to predict how you’ll feel when an abusive parent dies. Some people feel intense grief as there is now finally no chance of having the better relationship they’ve always wanted but was never possible; others do feel relief. Personally when I lost a parent from whom I was more or less estranged, I felt absolutely nothing and I still do. I had done all my grieving for the relationship we didn’t have, long before they died. I do feel a bit freer in the world now and a burden of needing to prove myself has somehow lifted, but it’s nowhere near as big a change as I thought it might be, either positively or negatively.

In my opinion/experience therapy although painful is really useful both now and in the future. I can relate to what you have said and when my mother/abuser died I was more upset than I imagined but what followed was a sense of relief. My life has got so much better and there is more peace in my head I do not think I would be in that position without going through the painful therapy journey which even thinking about can freeze me to the spot. For me it was important to be heard and hear and see another persons response to my experiences. Try and take care of yourself

I felt nothing but relief when my abusive parents died, and didn’t even go to their funerals. The only grief, as PPs have said, is for the loving mother we never had, the normal maternal relationship that we were denied.
OP, I think it might be quite cathartic for you if you DID say those words to your therapist - that you hate your mother, that you feel closure can only come with her death.
The therapist will have heard similar from many clients with toxic parents - it’s more common than you think- and will not be shocked or judgmental. They will probably be pleased that you are owning your feelings and being able to express them.

So sorry you are going through this op. I can relate to everything you have said. I can't quite believe my mother doesn't want to see me through no fault of my own. My mother was never properly there for me as a child, it makes me question what was wrong with me not to be loved by the one person you would think would love you (especially as I am a mother myself now and understand what unconditional love is).

Catastrophic is the word. Amongst other things I have been diagnosed with CPTSD.

I have felt pity for her, trying to excuse her behaviour but she has had a choice in how she behaves. Right now I feel angry, so very angry at all the stuff I missed out on and all the stuff I miss out on still. It is harder still, to realise (she is now in her 70's) that she is never going to change, I suppose this hope never quite goes away.

I have also come to the same conclusion re. any sense of closure and hate to admit it but it is true and I long for the sense of relief others have mentioned. I'm about to enter therapy, I have been a victim of emotional neglect and physical and emotional abuse. It was so validating for me to say this to someone (a psychiatrist), just to be heard

Yes saying it out loud and hearing someone have empthy is freeing. I told my mil and she said "you must have deserved it". She is also manipulative and toxic but I did cut contact with her last year. So much easier when I owe mil nothing. I owe my mum everything as she gave birth to me.

When the therapist said that I seeking out her love and approval at first I was in total denial but as the fog lifts a bit more it's a horrific truth. I hate that.

I do so want to approval and pride in me more than anything. That's what I cant shake off so easily. I graduated, I have just built a dream house. Does she want to see it? No.

No one can say I'm proud of you. No one that crave to hear it from. Or maybe they do? Maybe I cant hear it because my inner voice is shouting toxic vitriol in my ear.

I cant get my childhood back. No one is devastated for me, but I'm devastated. It's long gone and over but I'm still stuck there. I just want to heal.

I know therapy will be worth it. I just fear I'm not up to loosening the noose around my neck. Did I deserve it? I'm not sure and I need to be sure.

I keep going back for more showing the door is open, not for her to change I guess. To prove that I'm not her. I have too much empathy. I find the thought of turning out like her abhorrent.

I stand with you.

Having such mothers makes us too willing to give up our lives for the benefit of others. We do, as you say, have too much empathy. Too much need to gain approval.

I've had therapy. So much. And eventually, very, very effective.

Something big I've learned is the teaching 'All the love you need is within you'. I felt like my need for love was a chasm, a black hole, no-one could help me with it. I learned to practice self-compassion (kept a journal for a while) and it's true, you can love yourself, you can meet those needs.

I am proud of you. You're still here. You still offer love to the world.

No one is devastated for me, but I'm devastated

Absolutely this.

I came out of my assessment wanting my mother done for child neglect...I wanted to see her on trial! My father also, he was abusive. And now with her abandoning me and washing her hands of it all (she would never accept blame), it feels as if she has gotten away with it...another one of her problems has just disappeared but I am left...this broken person and there is no-one bloody accountable. Plus I am brilliant at blaming myself...along the lines of I deserved this BUT there is no way I would behave like this with my own dc. Unfortunately, because of the type of people they are (our parents) we are never going to get full understanding about what has happened to us, it is cruel.

My biggest fear is that I turn out like her - my mother! Yes, absolutely - I have daughters and dealing with my own issues and theirs on top leaves me feeling exhausted at times but they show plenty of emotional intelligence which is a delight and some comfort at least.

I tried to do some inner child work not long ago...my inner child went apoplectic. I told the assessing psychiatrist this - she didn't have much to say. I don't know, I expected the psychiatrist to have more answers but all she has done is 'assess' me and recommended various therapies.

Thank you for starting this thread op. There should be regional support groups set up for this kind of thing.

Having such mothers makes us too willing to give up our lives for the benefit of others. We do, as you say, have too much empathy. Too much need to gain approval.

Yes, this. I have more or less done this.

Can I ask what type of therapy you underwent and for how long doingitmyself?

I’m not a mother (partly because having grown up in a very dysfunctional family I simply cannot imagine ever wanting to be anything other than single and in charge of my own life) but obviously I have friends who are. One friend/mentor said something that really made me think. She is the mother of two now adult children whom she adores and with whom she has a lovely close relationship, and she got on well with her own parents (lucky woman!). She said that children owe nothing to their parents for bringing them into the world and looking after them through childhood, since the child had no say in the matter and did not ask for it. Rather, parents have children for their own reasons and it’s their decision.

Since then I’ve noticed that this tends to be the unspoken understanding in healthy parent-child relationships. It’s only in dysfunctional families where parents pile guilt and a sense of obligation on children because they have birth and brought them up.

justawoman, I was going to say the same thing - that we did not ask to be born and owe our mothers nothing for producing us.
If they are normal, decent, loving mothers then we feel love in return, and we feel gratitude for the care and attention they give us.
But there is no obligation whatsoever when that love and care are missing, and replaced by abuse.
OP, I take a lot of comfort from being a Christian. I know that God loves me and is proud of me, and I think of Him as my ultimate parent. And I have learned to take a pride in my own achievements- that I have had a successful life and was loved by my DH right up to his untimely death, that I have two adult DDs who also love me, (and I them!), and that I have broken the cycle of dysfunctional parenting.
I think you need more therapy to cut yourself free from your mother. To stop wishing for approval that will never come, to find it within yourself and/or from God, friends, partner, instead.
I used my mother as a sort of “anti role model”, of how not to be a parent. And I had nine sessions with a therapist, working on my self esteem and anxiety. It was hugely beneficial.
There is a happy life out there for you, OP. You just need help to dump that heavy emotional baggage you are carrying.
Travel light! God bless.

I found therapy incredibly hard. I did it for 3 years and it was exhausting but it did set me up for life.

However it isn't counselling, it isn't fun and most of the work takes place outside the session.

I came to view my parents completely differently - I was lucky and was able to resolve my relationship with them but it was HARD.

One thing that helped me was seeing what had shaped my parents. They weren't good parents but their parents had also been horrendous. The pattern went through the generations. When I was able to separate myself from them and feel some compassion for their experiences, I could take the view that they didn't know any better.

. I owe my mum everything as she gave birth to me.

Did your mother say that? That sounds like the sort of thing an abuser would say. It’s not at all true. Your mother made the decision to have a child - it is her responsibility to you, not your obligation to her. And she failed in that responsibility.

@Longtalljosie no my mother has never said that. That's all me.

My mum constantly told me I should never have been born and I ruined her life. Ironically I was one of five pregnancies so maybe she should have stopped and not had me. There is only me and my sister. She lost babies either in the third trimester or in the first few weeks of life which you would think would make her more grateful for what she had. But she hated us.

I have asked her a few times since the restrictions lifted if she wants to see us ( I have four kids who I adore). She either total ignores the question or says it not allowed. I was going to ask again after June, but rumours on the news today that it might be pushed back.

I keep telling myself she didnyt hear me, but she did didnt she? My therapist says I need to say "did you hear what I just said to you? I wont ask again, do you want to see us or not?" But I'm too scared to say that. Maybe i need to record it "you know I have offered to visit but it's up to you to accept it" mind you only I bring up seeing her.

I see my neighbours with kids of similar age have their parents up. Its lovely to see but things like that always make me so sad. Why cant my kids have a doting grandparent?

I do take solice that me kids love me. I have a dry quirky sense of humour but they totally get me and tell me I'm mad. I took my 17 year old yesterday shopping to choose his own food. I needed to get some tonic water and I said to him " how is a short alcoholic meant to get her fix?" And he told me that is what tall sons are for. My mum.would sneer at me for drinking, my son knows I hardly ever drink and it's a joke. Sometimes I find it amazing our relationship is so easy and comfortable. I have told him when I'm older, if I get rude he must say "you are being a cow and you stop or I leave" he said that he absolutely will. Again it feels weird he could trust me enough to declare a boundary.

My relationship with my kids is lovely and effortless and like everyone I loose my temper some times. I cant imagine getting joy in their pain. My boys talk about gaming and i nod smile and ask questions and offer advice even if I really feel disinterested in the subject. Because I know if we talk about gaming and I'm available and engaged they will come to me with bigger issues. I am amazed I am not a totally fucked up parent.

I secretly know I have been given all the tools to destroy them. It makes mr sick but I could be a perfectly evil abuser. I learnt from the best.

Cant say that out loud either.

My mother said if she had her time again she would never have had children or just one. I don't think I am the child she was referring to, though I am the eldest (I am estranged from my mother). I always carried guilt for my mother's unhappiness as she was always blatantly never happy.

Can I ask what type of therapy you underwent and for how long doingitmyself?

All talking therapies, no medication.
UK based, so it began with the 'counsellor' attached to the GP surgery. That was weekly, then fortnightly, a series of six sessions after two sessions of assessment. Just chatting. Nice lady, very keen to uncover child sexual abuse which was very much in the news at the time but wasn't part of my experience.
CBT, death by worksheets, again through GP surgery. The least helpful.
Hypnotherapy from a clinical psychologist.
One2One counselling weekly for five months, focused entirely on my mother. Really, really helpful.
Six sessions with another counsellor from GP surgery. Every so often they (the GPs) would flip me back to the beginning...
Promised 'in depth' group therapy which never materialised.
Six sessions of mindfulness training. Annoying at the time but ok when it bedded in.
What should have been six sessions with a lovely man from MIND. But, they sacked him by session three. Everyone else from MIND has been beyond useless. Harmful, even.
Sixteen sessions with a Senior Psychological Therapist, can't remember what the route was called but the provider was the local health trust. This was CBT plus. It was a therapist who actually knew her stuff, had the experience and confidence to deal with my many issues. The turning point.
Sixteen sessions with a nurse/therapist/researcher on depression and my physical health issues. Again, really helpful.

Overall, ten years. All NHS or charity, and I'm grateful.

And now I find myself happy and at peace. When I get low, I have strategies to deal with that. I'm not saying I'll never hit rock bottom again, because who knows, but I see no reason to be miserable. I can be happy most of the time. Live in the moment. Enjoy what there is. Let the rest go.

I built a successful life and raised an incredible child and my DM never once said she loved me or was proud of me. I spent decades trying to have her approval or a relationship with her. In the end I stopped bothering. Because of this time when she did die all I felt was anger.

I'm still angry now and I hate her. But I didnt feel grief. I'm glad shes gone.

Hopefully with you distancing yourself from her when she does die you will feel better, freer or at least not really upset.

I hope I get some closure some how. I think this therapy is helping. Just saying things out loud helps to unpack my thoughts and then file them away where they deserve to be.

It's sad it's not as uncommon as you would think. I guess shame stops people talking about it.

I want to unpick it more with my sister but she has her mind set that it's in the past and she hates her. She has better clarity than me. Maybe I'm still seeking permision somehow from my sister. I need to work on that. I felt growing up from my teens my sister was more like a mum. But she isnt a mother figure to me. She just filled in some key days when my mum should have been there.

Once you start thinking about it, it's such a mess.

I think as each day passes and restrictions looking less and less likely to be completely lifted next month, I might have more time to think.

My inner child wants to see her. My rational head knows it's not reciprocated and history tells me seeing her brings nothing ultimately but more pain.

She hasnt seen my kids since last March and not once has said she misses them. I keep on expecting emotions from her she has probably never felt. I imagine she feels it but cant say it. But that's not true. How hard is it to say "yes it would be nice to see the kids". Not hard at all. You could be emotionally crippled as still say "that would be nice" maybe she feels hate or maybe she feels nothing? But all the time she comes across as dismissive one thing is for sure, she is desperate to see anyone.

Why do I care? Duty? Guilt? Or still seeking a loving mum?

You seem to still be struggling with the cognitive dissonance of “what your mother actually is”, versus “what you wish she was”, OP.
She is never going to magically turn into a loving mother. There is nothing you could say or do that would ever effect this complete change in who she is.
What you can do is let it go. Accept that she is incapable of being what you wanted and needed from her. Stop trying to seek approval that will never be forthcoming. Stop giving her the power to repeatedly hurt and disappoint you.
It makes no sense to keep stroking a tiger, in the misguided hope that one day it will purr instead of biting more chunks out of you. It is not a domestic cat and never will be.
It is hugely liberating to let go of all the emotional baggage. The fear, obligation, guilt, the unreasonable hope of improvement. Drop the lot! Seek your love and affection elsewhere, in places where they actually exist - in your DH, DC and friends. That is when you will begin to heal.

I owe my mum everything as she gave birth to me

It's heartbreaking reading your posts OP, but this particular bit really stood out for me. This is at the root of it all for you, isn't it? This is what you need to talk to your therapist about - I've a feeling that all of your feelings hinge around your sense of everlasting obligation towards her.