Can an alcoholic ever change?

[ShinyGreenElephant]

Just looking for some support really. My husband is an alcoholic. Probably always has been although I didnt see it at first. Not long after we married his dad died and he didn't handle it well, and hes struggled to keep a lid on his drinking ever since. Weve split up over it several times, then he stops drinking and does and says all the right things so I take him back. Rinse and repeat. My eldest is 12 so aware of more than I'd like, our children together are 2 and 3 months.

Latest drama is because he was up drinking all night before the baby had a hospital appt, then when I got him up at midday caused a row over car seats (he doesnt like the 2yo rear facing). It escalated into him screaming at me in front of the younger kids and storming off. I then discovered when cleaning up that he had drank far more than I knew, and would have been over the limit anyway. He must have known this but was still prepared to drive with two babies in the car.

I dont know what to do. Hes in his mums for the foreseeable, I won't let him around the kids while he's like this but how can I fix this? I don't want this for the kids. They love him, they deserve to have a dad and I cant let him take them out or anything of hes prepared to drink drive with them in the car. How can I help him? Hes not all bad but he's a mess and I'm now on my own with 3 kids and don't know what to do to help him.

You can't help him until he admits he has a problem and wants to help himself. I would keep him away for now. He could have killed you all.

There is nothing you can do apart from keep yourself and your children safe.
You didn't cause it, you can't control it or cure it.
Speak to Al anon
And yes an alcoholic can change but only if they admit a problem and seek to change

Yes, your DC deserve better.

But you did not cause this, you cannot fix this. But you have an over-riding duty to keep the DC safe

So he shouid not move back, and access must be supervised

Only he can fix this, and only when he really decides to do it. I think you need to stand clear whist he finds his way through. He has to do it himself when he is ready to admit he has a problem - he may not have hit his rock bottom yet and if that is the case then he definitely should not be unsupervised with DC.

I won't let him around the kids while he's like this but how can I fix this?

You can't fix this. It's impossible. Only he can make the necessary changes to be sober, and I wouldn't hold my breath because it will at the expense of you and your children.

Alcoholics can absolutely turn things around, but it is 100% on them. They will always be an alcoholic and they will have to fight it every single day.

Thank you. You're all right of course. I feel so helpless though. I've probably made him sound like an absolute twat but he has a lot of good qualities and it didn't need to come to this

@ShinyGreenElephant I know how you're feeling
It feels like it's such a waste
Mine refuses to get help and barely admits he's got a problem
I keep slipping and thinking I'm throwing away my marriage but then I remember that he's refusing to do anything about this massive problem, and it's not just the drinking it's the lies and the total disrespect that goes with it

You will find as years go on the good qualities will fade you’ll dread his next drunken outburst, been there with my ex he turned me into a problem drinker so grateful to be dry now 7 years December .

Some can change but some can’t or don’t want to .You have identified the problem and given him chances which he has refused to take -its not your fault

You can't fix him. If you take him back you're enabling him (not blaming you, it's just fact). He will only change when he is ready to accept responsibility for his illness. What you can fix is your kids lives. Being the child of an addict can have huge repercussions for kids now and in the future, so removing him from their immediate situation is the best thing to do. As a previous poster mentioned, Al Anon could be a very helpful group for you where you can meet others in your situation and give you support. You don't have to battle this alone x

Another one here suggesting Al anon- saved my sanity

Yes, they can change but they have to really want to and put the work in.

Even then it takes months and years, and the person they are during and after is often different to the person you married.

Decide on your boundaries and stick to them 100%. Drinking or not drinking is his choice, and he has to face the consequences.

Thank you everyone, I will look into Al Anon, seems like it could be helpful. Does anyone know if I'm likely to be in trouble for not letting him see the babies while he's like this? In the past when his drinking has been out of control he's really scared the 2yo and his older daughter with angry outbursts, he's also damaged my property although that wasn't in front of the children
and now wanting to drink drive with them. I cant let him see them unsupervised, particularly the baby who is 3 months old, breastfed and attached to me like a barnacle, and I'm not comfortable to be around him to supervise while he's this angry. I dont trust his mum to supervise as she does anything he tells her and never stands up to him. If it was ever to go to court would I be seen unfavourably for stopping contact for now while he's out of control?

You should definitely look into Al-Anon or a similar group. Being the partner of an alcoholic is incredibly lonely and having support from people just like you makes it so much more bearable.

You're right to restrict his access to the DC - a man who would drink and drive with children in the car has no control over his addiction.

Alcoholics can change - my Dsis' partner is 10 years sober. He has worked incredibly hard to achieve that and still refers to himself as 'in recovery' - he will never not be an alcoholic. That's the kind of insight it takes for an alcoholic to change. Your husband sounds nowhere near that, and it's time for you to end the marriage. Children of alcoholics suffer enormously - my DDs are still living with the aftereffects of their late father's addiction and I live every day with the knowledge that I should have got out earlier.

I got him up at midday caused a row over car seats (he doesnt like the 2yo rear facing). It escalated into him screaming at me in front of the younger kids and storming off.

In the past when his drinking has been out of control he's really scared the 2yo and his older daughter with angry outbursts, he's also damaged my property ^although that wasn't in front of the children
and now wanting to drink drive with them^.

OP, in the kindest way possible, this isn't solely an alcohol problem. You and your children are living with an abuser. There is clearly a pattern of abuse.
While alcoholics can and do recover on their own terms and in their own time, abusers don't have the same trajectory.
Using alcohol to excuse his abuse doesn't help, because he's still an abuser when sober.
Please talk to women's aid.
Your children don't deserve to grow up thinking abuse is normal. You deserve better as well.

At present he is not sober, and it's impossible to tell if the abusive behaviour is a result of only the alcoholism. Don't try to ascribe motivations for behaviour that were not present before the alcoholism.

Right now, your aim is to keep your DC safe and leave it up to him to decide whether and when he wants to get sober (which can indeed be done, but that's all on him). If he achieves enduring sobriety, then you can look at reintroducing him to your family and assess if he is indeed safe. Do not rush in to that. Do not accept 'keeping a lid on it' - you and your DC deserve better.

Do get support Al-Anon, and make sure his DMum knows how dangerous and alarming he has been. Did you keep notes of the drunken, abusive behaviour? Because if he did try to take you to court for access you will need this sort of stuff.

Your younger DC will adapt rapidly. You might want to ask Al-Anon for advice for support for your 12 yo. She might benefit from Alateen (which is for 12-17 yos who have or have had an alcoholic in their lives)

Just something to think about op - trauma around the age of two and three to a child has been linked to for example, the development of narcissistic personality disorder and borderline personality disorders in later life. Pretty sure your kid being terrified by its father would count as trauma. He could already be doing long term, serious damage to your young children.

I'm sure aa will tell you that once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. A person can successfully stop drinking if they choose to. But they will always remain an alchoholic. And if the stop drinking for a while, it is always possible for them to fall off the waggon again in future. As you can see your partner did at his dads death.

Do yourselves and your kids a favour and walk away. I'd also see about going for supervised access for him only. Gather evidence on his dangerous and abusive behaviour.

For example, this time when he starts begging for forgiveness, you could text him 'you were so drunk and about to drive with our two babies in the car. Can we agree that it might be time to speak with aa?'. Then if he doesn't refute what you said or agrees, you have your evidence.

My exH was alcoholic, he seemed to have many good characteristics at first but they all disappeared as the alcoholism progressed. I had no real idea the levels he was drinking until he was arrested for driving drunk when he crashed the car. Thankfully only him in it and no one hurt. Gather evidence document everything it will help at court. Leave him for the sake on your kids. He is a grown man able to make and act on his own wishes your kids are not you are their responsible parent. I wish I had left when my daughter was really young. I believed all my exH promises to change but really he had no issues with his drinking and no desire to be sober. Yours will not change less he really wants to and he sounds way off that. Leave and if he stops drinking then a year or two down the line if he stays sober you can decide if you want to try again that way you have protected yourself and your kids. Mine never did stop just moved on to another woman who could support him lifestyle chose and fund it. It hard to leave but it was the very best decision I ever made regarding my child’s welfare and we are both much happier and safe

Thanks so much everyone. In terms of evidence I have lots- screenshots of him apologising for various things, witnesses to different meltdowns hes had including neighbours as well as friends and family, photos of smashed windows etc and text messages where he talks about sending me money for repairs. He also has a criminal record from when he was a lot younger with convictions for violence (not dv) so I dont think he would get anywhere in court until he could conclusively prove he had changed, at which point I wouldnt want to keep him away from the kids anyway.

My 12yo seems fine about it - we talk a lot and she does tell me when shes worried about things. She hasn't seen anything really but is aware that he drinks too much and we argue about it. Her only concern in terms of him moving out seems to be that he will no longer be giving her and her friends lifts to Starbucks all the time - I will keep a close eye on her though. Very worrying about the younger girls @umberellatheweatha as there has been 2 occasions now when hes really badly screamed and shouted in front of the 2yo - the last time I made him move out for 6 months but thought he had changed and tried again (more fool me). I won't allow there to be a third time.

So sorry to those who have been through similar, its absolutely horrible

You can only help your own self and your children ultimately. Not him and you certainly cannot fix him, whatever made you think that you could at all do that?.

Have you started to think about actually divorcing him?. Seeking legal advice would be a good idea here. Your relationship with him is over because of his alcoholism. His primary relationship is with drink; its not with you or any of his children. I would also be looking at Al-ateen for your eldest child.

@AttilaTheMeerkat im terrified of divorce in case he has a claim on my house. I inherited it around 3 years before we married and hes never paid towards it as there's no mortgage but at the end if the day were married so does that mean he gets half? Even though he's the one who's caused our problems? Couldn't bear the idea of selling, I'm a SAHM so couldn't get anywhere else

Another voice here to say that alcoholics can change if they want to, abusers tend not to change.

It sounds like he is abusive, in which case run, as fast and as far as you can. Munro’s toxic triad is alcohol, abuse and poor mental health; there is unlikely to be any change or recovery in that triad (alcoholism is a high indicator of poor mental health factors).

You need to concentrate on yourself and your children, he needs to hit his ‘rock bottom’ and want to change.

How much he would get depends on a lot of things. Yours doesn't sound like a long marriage, which would make a difference. It's also likely that you would have the DC almost exclusively, which would weight shares in your favour. But yes, he will get a share and you will have to find work. That's usually the reality of divorce if you're a SAHM.

See a lawyer. Inform yourself. Protect yourself and your kids. Alcoholics only think and consider themselves. Remember- you didn't cause it, you can't control it, you can't cure it. Take it from someone who knows. Put you and your kids first. Because he won't.

My husband is an alcoholic. He tried various things, controlled drinking, didn’t work, only drinking at weekends, didn’t work, he would lie about everything . Sorry I was late for dinner the train was delayed ( in the pub) I had to work late ( in the pub) etc etc. I said he was drinking too much, he replied that no it’s just that I drink very little so anything more than 2 glasses to me looked a lot. He was drinking 2 bottles a day not glasses. I hated the person he became. Then he went abroad to do some voluntary work and was miles from shops or pubs. He went into withdrawal and could no longer hide it from himself. Meanwhile I had a few weeks of him not being there and the house was peaceful. Upon his return I said that’s it our marriage was done. He suggested going to AA. He went saying his wife had a desire for him to stop drinking and he drunk for the first week that he attended but he listened to people there and after 2 weeks of going every day he stopped drinking. He hasn’t drunk since and it’s 12 years in August. He still attends AA meetings and we are both so thankful for his sobriety but neither of us take it for granted. So yes people can stop but only when they decide. Good luck with this it’s a very hard battle