Messages - not good

[FeelingStupid2021]

I cannot believe I am actually typing this but need a kick up the backside and also some advice/experiences from others about how to move forward. Sorry if it's long but don't want to miss anything relevant.

It's so stupid but I have been chatting to a man via whatsapp, he is involved in a hobby my whole family are involved in which makes it even worse. We have to have contact regularly as I have to issue intructions/info to him (and others) but he seemed to chat more than he should starting a couple of months ago. General chit chat but no real need TBH. I engaged in it and not entirely sure why. He's a nice guy and decent looking etc but I had never thought about him in that way. He has a new baby and has never suggested/behaved in any way towards me that suggests he is interested previously.

Things stepped up at the weekend (after a few drinks) he always messages asking some question about the hobby that only I would know but it did feel like an excuse. It then turned into all sorts of innuendo and way over the line, nothing outright said but I had to delete the conversation. This went on until yesterday.

Eventually we both said what on earth are we doing, we talked sensibly about it and said neither of us would act on it, even if we wanted to as neither of us are the sort of people who would do anything behind our spouses backs and then lie about it. We have decided to chill it and stick to professional communication from now on. I saw him in person last night at the hobby and he made a couple of comments some in front of people that only I would get and some when we were alone, similar to the messages that had been sent. I actually feel down that the messages need to stop, I have no feelings for this person at all but felt 'alive' for just a few days. I am unfit, over a good weight for me and feeling crap. I constantly do everything for everyone else so this felt nice. I am so cross with myself as it sounds pathetic.

I have been with DH 16 years and never had to delete a message in my life, there is nothing on my phone he couldn't see until Saturday and I feel awful. It felt good to have attention, especially in a sexual way. I am 41 and DH is 54. We have probably had sex twice in 2 years, not much at all in the last 8 years I reckon. Mostly due to him not being able to for a while, it knocked both of our confidences TBH and was a difficult time. It's not ever been completely resolved (according to him he had no idea why he couldn't) and sex is infrequent and not very successful anymore. I don't feel like I can ever instigate as it is really upsetting if he is unable to (for both of us).

This is NO excuse I know. I love DH, I can't imagine spending the rest of my life with anyone else, it's hard to know that sex won't be a big part of our lives though so this attention made me feel like a normal sexual person again.

Does anyone else have experience of marriage without sex? Does everything else just override this eventually? I know I need to completely stop the messages, would you just delete them, keep it professional and say nothing to DH? I don't need to be told how awful it is, I know already. TIA.

'as neither of us are the sort of people who would do anything behind our spouses backs and then lie about it'
So your Husband and his Wife know about this? You already are keeping secrets and doing things behind your spouses' back. That ship has sailed.

As someone who has been in your husband’s position, is now a completely different person (less trusting, more closed, just generally far far less happy) because of it, and having to seek therapy to try to live with it, I can tell you now your excuse of ‘feeling crappy’ is nothing compared to how your husband is about to feel. It’s so frustrating that people don’t realise just how much you can destroy someone just for a quick ego boost. What has been a short lived pick me up for you, could leave him with issues for years.

There’s the kick up the backside you asked for. Now for the advice.

If you really love your husband and this is just a blip then you have to tell him, trust me, he will find out either way, and years down the line will just hurt so much more. Block all contact with this other man. I know you say he is part of your hobby, but there’s no going back once you’ve crossed a line, so get rid.
This might be the jolt you both need to sort out your marriage as it is. Your husband will be upset, angry, and let down but it might make you both realise that if you want to save this marriage, you need to work at it.
It sounds like you would maybe both benefit from some counselling, both together and alone. You can work past this and it can just be a blip in a long, happy marriage. But please don’t use the excuse that you weren’t completely fulfilled. It will make him feel so much worse. Take responsibility for your actions.

Good luck, and next time, try to work on your issues with your marriage, rather than getting off on someone’s else husbands inappropriate comments.

Only you know if you can exist in a sexless marriage, but, either way this isn't the answer as you've found out

You asked about whether deleting the messages is right, if you've stopped and you absolutely won't continue then yes, I would. The problem occurs if it turns out your husband already clocked them and now finds they're gone. I'd probably have archived rather than deleted incase I needed to prove my 'innocence'. I might get flamed for this but I wouldn't own up, not to this so far anyway. I don't care what anyone says there are always conversations that may occur that we'd hope don't get taken the wrong way if read out of context, I've had messages of men at work where I know its just messing about and in no way meant to be taken seriously, but if read by someone else it might read differently. (I think you know when it's crossing a line into going further than just joking, the problem is when that becomes the excitement, we all have the ability to stop that before it happens if we want to)

Delete the messages and look at ways to communicate with your husband to try and resolve the bedroom problems, and don't get sucked back into messaging just to boost your ego

Thanks @girlinneed101 you are 100% right, I didn't mean it to sound like excuses, there is no excuse, I know that. I got lost for a few days and it is pathetic. Yes I understand how I wrote it about not doing anything behind our spouses backs and lying, obviously we already have done that as I deleted the messages. I meant we wouldn't usually be like that. We are both having similar periods in our marriage and we got carried away.

Regarding the hobby, I don't want to say too much but it's a hobby we will be involved in for probably another 20 years with the kids. There are so many awfully wrong things in what I have done, my teenage son plays in a team with this man FFS, I'm an idiot! It's so hard to ask for advice on here as anything I say will sound selfish but at the end of the day I am asking for advice for me so it is selfish to an extent. My DH would be devastated if he knew and quite rightly so.

@booboo24 my gut feeling is to not say anything but I am wondering if that is more for me than him. The incriminating messages were really the last few where we both said that we have enjoyed the chat but it's gone too far and whilst we 'feel' we may like to do something more than chat neither of us actually would ever do that as we are married and wouldn't have it in us. The rest were stupid childish innendos. On whatsapp it shows when you delete specific messages so I deleted the lot.

Ah ok, then yes, I think you owe it to him to be upfront, sorry, I thought the innuendos were the problem, I clearly didn't read it thoroughly enough. I think that telling him will be incredibly hard for both of you, but if (& when) he finds out it will be a lot lot worse.

He is understandably going to be very hurt, and the problem is now you've deleted he only has your word for it that you put a stop to it. I've been on the receiving end of this and the pain never really goes I'm afraid. Hopefully by you coming clean he will see it in a slightly better light. This will hopefully be the wake up call you need to not put yourself in this position again. Good luck with this, I hope you can work it out

Obviously you need to knock this on the head op. Whether you stay with your husband or not, this is a married man with a baby. Do you actually love your husband? I’d take this as an opportunity to start sorting you marriage out before it’s too late. You need to sit down and have an honest conversation with your husband. I’d consider marriage counselling and definitely be getting your oh to a doctor to start sorting out his impotence issues.

Please don't beat yourself up about this. You're only 41, still in your prime, and you aren't getting any sexual attention from your husband. I'm surprised it's taken this long for you to act upon that. Lots of people on MN will tell you that you're the devil incarnate, but FFS, you're not dead below the waist. You're a sexual being that is being starved of affection. At 41 your libido is at it's highest, and you're going against human nature to try to stifle that. I think you need to have a conversation with your DH. Has he tried viagra? Would he? Would he consider testosterone injections? You can't go on like this, clearly.

My DH would be devastated if he knew and quite rightly so

I hope he would also recognise, that's he's touched you the grand total of two times in two years, and consequently he deserves some of the blame. He has ignored the issue, and expects you to lead a celibate life, at the grand old age of 41. He's not treating you well, I hope you know this. He's bloody lucky you haven't left him or had an affair.

I understand what you are saying @leftout1 but he is a lovely person. I think he wants to have sex but his issue is on his mind lots.

Thank you for understanding though, obviously I know sex can happen less as time goes own, I don't mind that but some would be nice, as a result of his issue it has made me feel less confident so I definitely don't try to instigate at all.

It is easy to get out of it and slip into a new normal in a marriage I think. It's not that I don't find DH attractive now but we just live as we do and it's normal to us now so I don't feel I want to try it often. In all honesty I hadn't given it too much thought other than maybe when I see others in a longer marriage who seem more 'into' each other until this last week.

I agree with girlinneed101. Its all innocent until your partner finds out and only then do you understand the hurt and devastation this kind of behaviour causes.

Why is it easier for a person in a supposedly committed relationship to cross the line into an inappropriate relationship with someone else than to sit down and have a brutally honest conversation with their partner about how unhappy they are in the relationship. Give them the chance to put it right together. Why wait until this relationship potentially continues and further oversteps the mark, gets discovered and then when your partner is completely devastated by the betrayal feel then is a good time to tell them whilst frantically trying to repair/save the relationship.

Can you tell i was also on the receiving end 🙄🤪. I didn't choose it and my life is now shsped by what my other half decided to do in the heat of the moment whilst feeling miserable with me.

I don't think there is anything to be gained by telling your husband you were exchanging messages, which crossed the line, with another man. It will hurt him and feel like you are saying if he can't give you the attention you would like then someone else will which is not a great starting point if you would like to discuss how to improve your sex life.

I think you need to be honest with him about how the lack of sex affects you and work together to fix it. He may be afraid the issue can't be fixed or too embarrassed to discuss it with a doctor and he will continue to do nothing about it if you don't tell him how you feel.

Beating yourself up or telling your husband about the messaging achieves nothing but pain. Whilst the messaging is nothing to be proud of you can use it as a wake up call to do something about the absence of a physical relationship with your husband.

Totally @Jonjojobs123 I think it hit me after a couple of days when I realised the messages needed to be deleted, at that point it's clearly too far. We didn't arrange to meet, it wasn't that far but it was innuendos that you wouldn't want someone else to see and that makes it wrong.

I don't think it is easier to cross the line really, I think it is a bit of denial and it's hard to accept your relationship isn't as great as you thought until something , from my point of view it was genuinely innocent chat then very quickly turned a corner, I was wrong to engage at all, heat of the moment is no excuse at all, it's not like I'm 20. The relationship is not continuing, we have already said that we needed to stop the messages.

This is really hitting home, so sorry to hear you have been on the receiving end, it's shit. I have too, I didn't actually get to the bottom of it but I have never forgetten. It makes it worse as I know how it feels.

Thank you @FOJN that makes total sense. I don't understand why it seems so hard to talk about, I guess it is because it wasn't his fault it happened. He did see a doctor years ago and told me he was told it was anxiety and to relax and it will pass. I found out about a month ago that he lied as I found half a viagra in his office. He has just moved his home office so not sure if it fell out of his bag. I was so cross as the puppy was running around the office when I found it. I also was hurt he hadn't told me (rich given what I am on here discussing I know).

I didn't want to mention it before as it was irrelevant to my OP but I have had suspicions of DH having inappropriate relationships many years ago, over friendly with a work colleague, I had no proof of anything other than some cryptic messages and also that he lied to me that she was on a cruise he went on with some relatives of mine. My dad mentioned they bumped into her about a week later. This is why I am so disappointed I have gone down this route, I felt so upset, confused, angry and many other things. Over time I have got over it mainly but now and then it comes into my head. He says nothing happened, that may be true when it comes to physical stuff but something did, I just don't know the extent.

The thing that concerns me is that you made the resolution with this other man that it was all going to stop and was completely inappropriate and then when you saw him face to face he carried on in the inappropriate vein.
I would say to your husband that you and the other guy had started messaging purely about your hobby and that it ended up moving into some foolish innuendo. Once you realised that you directly said to the guy you weren’t interested in anything like that and wanted to only communicate professionally.
Say you saw no need to mention it to him your DH because you thought it had been nipped in the bud but when you saw this guy face to face he started up with the innuendo and inappropriate statements again.
Say you were stupidly drawn into it on the messages but felt you had dealt with it, now the other guy has indicated that he might become more persistant you felt you needed to speak to your DH husband about it.
That’s what I would do, I wouldn’t link it to anything within your marriage because I think it would give it a significance it doesn’t have.
However at some point a good time on from this I think you need to address your lack of sex life together, 41 is very young to be married but essentially celibate and it will over time erode your self esteem.

I think that you should tell him not to hurt him but to genuinely make it clear what has happened so that you both can present a united front as a couple which someone who you will remain associated with for the next 20 years.
I think then if the other man tries to make a pointed remark when your DH is there or tries to infer a connection that does not exist your DH will know all about it and exactly how the land lies.
I think by keeping a secret with this other man it will create an intimacy that you are keen to dispel.

The other long held unsettled feeling you have about your DH behaviour on the cruise does change things abit. If you have been living with a feeling of uncertainty about your relationship for a long time and your sex life has petered out into nothing then maybe lay it all out on the table and work out a way to move on with honesty.
At 54 unless he really has a strategy for improving his sexual performance then he is highly likely to drift into old age with more performance decline than not.
It has to be something you need to discuss for the long term health of your relationship and he has to come clean about what happened on the cruise.

You barely had sex since you were 33. And twice in the last two years.
Half of your 16year marriage has been pretty much sexless.

You have nothing to feel sorry about. Sexless marriages only work if both people feel the same about having sex. Sooner or later - the person who still libido realises that they are not dead and physical intimacy is an important part of life.

Your H is not being fair. ‘He wants to fix it but hasn’t managed’ is just an excuse. Sex isn’t only about his ability to perform. If how you feel were important to him - he’d find other ways to make you feel wanted and give you at least some sexual attention/release. There are ways to compensate for ED, if he were willing. As it it - it all seems to be only about him and his ego.

All this experience has shown is that you are a sexual being. You can put it away again and wait for old age when you stop feeling desires and urges. It’s your life and your choice.

But - in your place - I’d take it as a wake up call. And I’d have a serious conversation with H about your needs. And see if he is willing to do something about it. There are many ways to have sex without PIV, if it’s not just about him.
Alternatively if he isn’t able/willing to make an effort - he can let you see other men who are.
Life is really too short to love like that.

Also - just saw your post mentioning ‘half a viagra’...
My guess is that there is a lot more to his side of the story other then ‘performance anxiety from years back’

If he has Viagra and you only had sex twice in the last two years - he is using that Viagra somewhere and somehow. Just not with you.
I am guessing you provide a nice home life for him and this is all he wants you to be.
His sexual interests do exist, they are just not focused on you.

I also wondered about the half a viagra.

You need to think about going forward from this and yes having THE discussion about this - how are we going to manage going forward ? What do we want out of our marriage ? If you can't agree then it is reasonable to go your different paths . I've been there with the sexless marriage and it is shit .I have had a wonderful sex life since parting from him . I only now realise how much time I wasted .

Thanks all, sorry I haven't disappeared but had to take the kids out.

The viagra definitely made me question things, at first he said he didn't know what it was, then later he said he'd realised what it was and that he got them when he went to the doctor when he first had the issues and that he was too embarrased to tell me that's what they gave him. It was just so long ago I don't understand if it wasn't recent then how did it get there.

All your advice has been amazing, I have so much to think about but feel positive about doing something about it (with DH not the other man).

Hi OP. Wanted to pop back on here and say that my advice was obviously not based on the full story which you've now explained.

Although I still don't think getting you kicks off another guy is right, and will still be painful for your husband, I think there's bigger issues and the lack of sex, and wanting attention from other men is just a symptom.

It sounds like neither of you are that great at communicating and the whole half of a viagra thing is really really odd.

I've been in a similar position where my partner was not keen to talk/ told me half stories, and I just left it. However, the not fully knowing killed me, but when it all came out later as it always does, that also killed me. Still not sure which was worse.

So my advice would be to both sit down with a councillor and lay everything down. Ask about the viagra, and tell about this other man. You both need to decide to move forward (if you want to) with no blurred lines in your relationship.

Tried to read all your comments op so hope this is suitable.

Even though your oh struggles to have sex aren’t there other things you could do together to meet your needs. Even if full sex isn’t possible. Is this something you could talk about?

I know the hobby sounds like it’s integral to your life but I’d there is anyway you can get out of communicating/involvement with him I would.

Sounds like a complicated situations. I can understand how it comes about. We’re all human at the end of the day and sometimes make choice that aren’t great.

@leftout1

My DH would be devastated if he knew and quite rightly so

I hope he would also recognise, that's he's touched you the grand total of two times in two years, and consequently he deserves some of the blame. He has ignored the issue, and expects you to lead a celibate life, at the grand old age of 41. He's not treating you well, I hope you know this. He's bloody lucky you haven't left him or had an affair.

Can you imagine what people would say if it was a man cheating on his wife? Would you say she deserved it because she didn't put out?!

If the genders in the relationship were reversed - I’d still say the same thing. One person can’t unilaterally withdraw sex for years and be surprised when their partner has their head turned and feels something sexual towards someone else.

Of course, here on MN - a husband in OP’s position would be told to make sure he does enough housework, etc. And that it’s woman’s right not to force herself to have sex.

And this is where I think OP’s H is being unfair. He makes is sound like he wants to fix it - but it’s only to placate her. As he doesn’t do anything to actually address the issues.
While in reality there is possibly a whole other dimension to what is going on - and there is a half Viagra to prove it.

Personally I don’t think this will get resolved. OP has let him ignore her needs for too long. And she seems too trusting and accommodating. And he clearly doesn’t care enough.

Thank you everyone.

I feel like he has brushed it under the carpet as I think he thought it would just resolve itself but it hasnt and between us we have ended up in a routine of not havig sex, not trying and not discussing it.

Regarding the hobby, I don't really have to have much private chat with him, sometimes making some arrangements and then some group emails as well (which is fine). I get the impression he doesn't really want to chill it, I think he is bored and wants the attention also so currently I am just not responding to any messages that are not strictly professional. I have to admit it though, it is not as easy as I thought. I don't have romantic feelings towards him but it is addictive which sounds awful. I don't intend to respond though.

@girlinneed101 the not knowing has always been something that I have struggled with but as we are talking about 10 years ago I am not sure I really want to know now. We need to move forward from now and hopefully we can work it out properly. Half hearted is not good enough.