Struggling with the concept of how an abusive man be a ok patent!!

[Letdown16]

I’m really struggling with this. In a week I have my section 7 interview with Cafcass.

I’ve read and I’m very aware that I need to put the child’s interest first. Which usually means in Cafcass’s eyes a relationship with both mum and dad.

I have read numerous times that past abuse does not count and that I should not bring this up to any extent. My ex husband was extremely emotionally and mentally abusive.
He has not seen them for 2 years now but he is desperate to. Court has been very slow due to covid.

My question really is how can a man who systematically beat emotionally and mentally his wife to a nervous breakdown, all his previous girlfriends, work colleagues (if women or gay) in front of children be a good parent. I need to look at it for the benefit of the child but how do you separate this.

I don’t know how to approach the fact that Cafcass will see this as the past and we need to look forward. Abuse is not a past. It makes me feel like the abuse happened because me and him were not suitable but he is abusive with or without me. He will not stop purely because I left, it’s who he is isn’t it???

Mine are very small so won’t understand and of course I’ve never bad mouthed him so they want to see him. It’s just a rubbish situation to know that he is in it for his own gain.

I'm in a similar situation. Young child wants to see her Dad but has no insight or memories of his abuse. Any attempts at discussion about my concerns are met with an angry 'I'm not like that now' response, but he still does not put his children first and continues to abuse the child he does see. I want my child to have contact but I don't want her to be emotionally abused. It's going through court now at vast expense to him. I have offered, time and time again, to discuss it with him, even go to family therapy to try to discuss it, but he would rather try to get what he wants through the legal system, with a bulldog lawyer. He has absolutely no insight into his behaviour.

@Oreo01 I think there is a big difference to having depression and purposely destroying another person for your own gain and enjoyment.

I have been in family court with an abusive man for 6 1/2 years now. He has filed repeated applications in order to use the court as a weapon against me.

I filed a scott schedule in 2017 with over 50 examples of coercive and controlling behaviour which was disregarded by the judge as 'arguing parents'.

Cafcass have been excellent to be fair. They recommended a fact finding (which the judge deemed not appropriate) They then recommended a pysch assessment which unsurprisingly came back saying that I'm not actually a bad mother and he is 'coercive and controlling'. Cafcass have also written a report which says the same.

Under PD12J it is mandatory for judges to investigate domestic abuse which clearly hasn't been done in this case which now gives me the right to appeal.

Recent case law has identified 'coercive and controlling behaviour' to be shown through repeated patterns of abuse (which is what I demonstrated in my original scott schedule).

I am now due to go back for my final hearing. I am confident that after 6 1/2 years we may come to a final answer on this but it is disgusting what me and my child have been put through.

In your favour coercive and controlling behaviour is recognised a lot more in court proceedings and awareness is growing by the day. There is an organisation called #thecourtsaid (which are on fb) who are brilliant and have helped me with many of my statements (I am now a litigant in person after spending £50k in court fees).

Please feel free to DM me. I understand how awful this situation is. My child has now been in family court for the majority of his childhood and is certainly feeling the impact of these proceedings now.

I have also fought the CMS for 5 years to get basic maintenance but that's a WHOLE other story......

I've been through this and am pretty much out the other side. Yes, he got contact, and yes, he was pretty awful to dd. His contact was steadily reduced as his behaviour was observed by the school and by social services, and then dd decided to stop seeing him when she was 12. He then went to prison for abusing someone else.

Dd suffered, yes, and I wish she could have been better protected. But she wasn't cut off from him at an early point, when she still idealised him. She got to see who he really was. It gave her some understanding of his side of the family.

I think it might be useful to avoid thinking of the court decision on contact as a single roll of the dice. It certainly happens that children get contact with problematic parents, but the relationship isn't static over time. It's pretty common for contact to reduce over time and then stop at a certain point.

Part of the problem is that children deserve to know both their parents, even if they are abusive. It matters for their sense of self esteem and identity, and if that knowledge is denied to them it can mess them up as much as knowing their abusive parent. Especially as there is no guarantee that he will behave abusively towards his children, however much you insist that’s ‘who he is’.

You need to fight for supervised contact and at least give your children the opportunity to know their father. It’s not fair on you because if he screws it up then it’s you and your children that have to deal with the consequences, but they do deserve to know for themselves who he is.

He absolutely destroyed me and in front of them. He shouted at them, he smoked weed, he idolised one until she was being a kid and not co-operating and rang me to get my child as he had screamed at her and actually scared himself. He let them eat off the floor. All he wanted to do was to buy them expensive toys so that they could bring them back to mummy and they could show me what he brought them. Always the most expensive things. He told me I’d better not give birth to a boy as he’d beat it like he had by his dad. He was cruel. He was fired for scaring a young female member of staff as she was left in charge and he didn’t want to take orders. He crossed the road to shout at people who looked at him funny. He slammed the breaks on the get out the car and shout at people, all in front of young child.

He is a monster and I’m terrified of what it will do to them as he absolutely mentally and emotionally destroyed me and I’m an adult.

They might grow up with issues not knowing there father but they will have a mum who loves them and is safe. Him having them will create so much stress for me and them how will I keep them safe.

You keep them safe by asking for supervised contact.
My kids have no contact with their father. Indirect contact was ordered but he hasn't bothered. It has had a negative effect on the children. Yes they are now safe but they miss him and feel his rejection. I wish things could have been different, for them.
Offering no contact is very very unusual.
Their young a contact centre would maintain contact and be safe. My kids went I said it was just a special place kids see thier other parent.
Such a horrible horrible situation I feel for you.
Has he Co operated with professionals?

How long before supervised becomes unsupervised?

Think it depends on the situation and how supervised contact goes. Or what the courts say. I don't think it's something that is meant to be long term. Also there is a fee.
What is it you want from it all?

A time machine.

I don’t want him to use the children as a way of getting to me, of punishing me and as a consequence wrecking their lives.

I want us to have a happy life and not have this in our lives. I really want a good father to co parent with, one who puts his hands up and says yes I did all those things and I did it not because of stress or because you made me but because I have a problem and I’ll do anything to sort it out. I want him to look at his abusive father and see he is following in his footsteps. I want him to look at his sister who is an alcoholic. She was spared the abuse, she was put on a pedestal by their father but she witnessed it and now she is an alcoholic.
I don’t want this.

Give it up now. Sorry to say.

You need to be realistic. Everything you said about him is shit but no worse than anything I have seen. Pick your battles 😱😱

@Tibbleton what should I give up? Those examples are the nicer ones, there are worse which I don’t want to talk about.

Should I just let him get what he wants?

@Letdown16

He absolutely destroyed me and in front of them. He shouted at them, he smoked weed, he idolised one until she was being a kid and not co-operating and rang me to get my child as he had screamed at her and actually scared himself. He let them eat off the floor. All he wanted to do was to buy them expensive toys so that they could bring them back to mummy and they could show me what he brought them. Always the most expensive things. He told me I’d better not give birth to a boy as he’d beat it like he had by his dad. He was cruel. He was fired for scaring a young female member of staff as she was left in charge and he didn’t want to take orders. He crossed the road to shout at people who looked at him funny. He slammed the breaks on the get out the car and shout at people, all in front of young child.

He is a monster and I’m terrified of what it will do to them as he absolutely mentally and emotionally destroyed me and I’m an adult.

I think you should push for supervised contact. He might not make it out of the contact centre if this bad.

I think with due respect you have to take a deep breath.
You can not control what he thinks of his father or his sister. Or about his family dynamics.
You need to try and find a way of moving forward with it all. You need to remain focused but measured in your approach. There isn't going to be an ideal outcome or a perfect solution.
He isn't suddenly going to become a good parent, that's not what your working with or where you are atm.
So what kind of out come do you think is best for the children? And for you as a family? If he's still involved in the court process and working with professionals he has a good chance of having some level of contact. This is something that you may have to except.
What does your solicitor recommend?

I haven’t spoken to my solicitor I am still paying off a bill with them and can’t afford really to add more to it atm.

I was working with a charity but Covid has caused them to stop working so I don’t have a lot of support at the moment.

The best outcome would be that they remain in one home. He doesn’t have one atm and is sharing. Ideally I guess as I can’t stop it and wouldn’t go down well if I said no contact, supervised would stop him from doing anything.

Sorry if I sound a bit irrational. This is a very difficult time for me although a few years ago now the ending of my marriage was very bad, I had a breakdown, my father died and he escalated his abuse towards me. Every time I have to go through this I remember the pain I was in and it’s heavy.

I left my abusive partner when my daughter was 3 and went through 8 years of court. I had files full of police incidents when they were called out due to his abuse and statements from the head mistress when he constantly failed to collect our daughter from school and being verbally abusive to her but the judge took none of this into consideration as he has not been "convicted"
Like you I struggled to see how he could care for a young child when he was such an abusive nasty piece of work. He enjoyed taking me back to court for more and more contact even though he had breached the court order so many times and it was his mother that looked after our daughter when it was his contact. My barrister asked for an injunction to stop him taking me back to court for the next 5 years as he was doing this to bully and intimidate me and the judge actually said "Mr xxx you can bring this matter back to court as many times as you please"
I felt let down by the whole court system.
So he went on to meet someone else and they had a daughter too - 4 years alter I had his partner message me that she has suffered the same abuse as me and left.
My daughter is now 16 and going through counselling as she witnessed some of the abuse and never shared this - she also sees the damage he has done to me and other women.
He continues to have failed relationships - I feel I have a responsibility to warn these women
Basically an abusive man does not change and the damage they leave behind is appalling

I feel for you

Sending you the very best wishes

Men like this never change

Please gosh he will back down
Nasty scum