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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Collaborative law - worth a try?

10 replies

coronabeer · 09/05/2021 15:22

Re-posted from divorce board for traffic. NB I'm referring here to collaborative law here, not mediation which has so far been entirely unsuccessful, sadly.

Trying, very unsuccessfully, to sort out our divorce financial settlement between me and my stbxh. Basically, he is refusing to budge an inch and whining that "it's not fair" whenever I refer to the law on divorce settlements. He has provided some but not all financial disclosure, claiming that certain things are "not relevant" in his view (for example, I still don't know how much his pension contributions are). We were doing this with a mediator, but it just seemed a lot of money for not much - or indeed any - progress.

Court is starting to look inevitable, but it's so expensive and such a long, drawn-out process and I just want this over. I have no financial security at all at the moment even though we are a relatively wealthy couple. Looking back, there were probably elements of financial abuse in the marriage but decree nisi has already been granted so I guess that's a moot point. Suffice to say I want to get on with my life and stop worrying about all this. And I believe we have enough money that we could both be comfortable.

So, I've been looking for alternatives to court and wondered about collaborative law? I think if my stbxh would just accept what the law says instead of what he "thinks", we could possibly make some progress. We are literally having discussions where I will say something like: "the law says this and my solicitor has advised bla, bla, bla.." and he will respond "I don't agree with that". No reason given, no countering "my solicitor said something different", just he doesn't agree, as if that settles things. I wondered whether having his own solicitor sitting there when he acts this way it might be helpful? That said, he's so cagey about his own legal advice that I suspect he is just ignoring what he doesn't want to hear. He's on to his fourth solicitor now, as apparently they are all obstructive and rubbish!

I've only ever asked my solicitor about a "reasonable" settlement, not a good one, let alone a generous one. But we're miles apart with stbxh suggesting, for example, a 70:30 split in his favour even though I am the one with the children 100% of the time and with a substantially lower income, because stbxh thinks that's "fair".

(The children barely see him by their own choice. DD1 is old enough to be viewed as an adult, but the younger one saw a child mediator and explained that she didn't want much contact with him and why ,and so she now sees him every other month. Stbxh is arguing about that, too as he "didn't realise" that would be the outcome of her seeing a child mediator, even though he was the one pushing for it in the first place.)

My solicitor suggested collaborative law, saying that they often have people (typically men) who start off telling everyone how things are going to go. And then (she tells me), you sometimes see their faces changing when you have two solicitors both telling this person: "well, that's not how it works, the law says (whatever the law does indeed say)". Surely even someone as stubborn as stbxh will have to accept at some point that he will have to accept what the law says, regardless of his own personal views? Won't he?

Anyway, I would be grateful for any input from anyone who has tried this approach - or indeed any other thoughts or advice. Negotiation between solicitors? Private hearings? Arbitration? I just want this over with. As I said, we've tried mediation and we've tried sorting it out ourselves and got precisely nowhere.

OP posts:
Lurcherloves · 09/05/2021 20:21

Hi, I think collaborative law is very expensive as you both have to pay to have solicitors at a round table meeting. Mediation would be a better option, if that doesn’t work negotiation through your solicitor, and last resort court. I guess collaboration will be cheaper than court proceedings but if he is that bad it could end up in court anyway?

OverTheRubicon · 09/05/2021 20:24

Cheaper and less stressful than court. Maybe worth a first couple of sessions, frankly if it ends up highly adversarial and in court (which, to be fair, does sound quite likely), the cost of those sessions is unfortunately going to be a drop in the ocean.

TalbotAMan · 09/05/2021 20:37

I think I'd just go to court. While there are bad solicitors out there, he'd have to be pretty unlucky to get three in a row. He's simply not facing up to reality and I doubt that collaborative law will make any difference. It's a long marriage and (though all cases are different) there have to be pretty strong reasons to depart from a 50:50 split. The court has powers to deal with incomplete disclosure, and, while he may not like what the judge tells him, he'll have run out of road (at least that road - getting him to comply with the court order may present its own problems).

AttilaTheMeerkat · 09/05/2021 20:45

How good is your solicitor at dealing with manipulative and otherwise abusive men like your husband?.

I would go to court as well. You would co-operate with the process but abusive men never co-operate. That is also why mediation with him failed and went nowhere, it was always going to be the case.

BlindTipsy · 09/05/2021 21:03

Collaborative is usually faster, which you want, but it does depend on you both being able to sit round a table and be able to discuss and agree things so may not be the best approach for your situation.

If you aren't able to agree then you will end up in more meetings and that will get very expensive.

coronabeer · 09/05/2021 21:18

Thanks everyone.
Been looking through some emails to "prove" that something stbxh is now disputing was, indeed, his suggestion in the first place. and of course it was - found it in black and white. Doing so, I can see that we were arguing about exactly the same issues now that we were over a year ago and bits of information I have been asking for all that time still haven't been supplied.
So sadly, I'm thinking collaborative will be a waste of time. He isn't interested in finding a fair solution, he just wants to "win". Unfortunately for me, he's had years of that sort of strategy working - if he's been stubborn enough, I have always backed down. Unfortunately for him, I have finally seen the light and I'm not prepared for that to happen any more. I know that I have the law on my side with what I'm suggesting and it will leave both of us comfortably off. So court it is.

OP posts:
Lurcherloves · 09/05/2021 21:37

Hope it goes well and is over soon. The quicker you can move on from this kind of stress the better xx

Spritesobright · 09/05/2021 21:46

My exh wanted to do collaborative law but wasn't disclosing his newest income so my solicitor suggested financial proceedings, which is the first step of court.
Honestly court is not as bad as everyone suggests and in cases like this where the stbxh is a bully and refusing to acknowledge the law because it's "not fair" then it's the only way.
Yes it's expensive but worth it for the settlement if your ex is suggesting 70/30 for him!! That's utterly ridiculous and he needs a judge to tell him that.
Good luck OP! And don't be afraid to insist you get what you are entitled to.

funnylittlefloozie · 09/05/2021 21:54

I think things like mediation and collaborative law only work where both parties are basically reasonable. If one party is completely unreasonable, then collaborative processes are just a waste of time and money, and you might as well go straight to court.

coronabeer · 09/05/2021 22:02

Thanks everyone. I think I already knew it wasn't really going to work, even though it is something which I'd prefer to court. Just hoping that someone might say something like: "My dh was being completely unreasonable during mediation, but when he heard two solicitors sitting there, telling him he was wrong he started to accept reality and we got things sorted fairly quickly after that."
Although he hasn't spelt it out, it seems he already thinks three solicitors have been "rubbish and/or obstructive" (he's on his fourth), and he's also arguing about the pensions expert (apparently he is wrong, too). Must be so hard to be a genius like that, surrounded by idiots...

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