Marriage and kids with an IVA?

[Pinkcat200]

Hello,
Looking for some wise mumsnetter opinions on this tricky situation.

Been with DP 2 years, live together and have dogs together. I'm 29 and he's 34. Neither of us have kids. We've known each other about 5 years and together for 2.

We're both in love and there are no issues. Definitely see ourselves together for the long haul.

Now our issue is this:
We both really want babies and marriage. However DP is in an IVA and has 4 years left on it.

Before we got together DP got himself into a financial mess. He was renting on his own and things spiralled and he got himself into a lot of debt. A year into our relationship he sought help for this and set himself up an IVA which has gone well.
We do financial spreadsheets together and all is well on that front and he's done very well with it.

Finances are very transparent with us both.

My situation on the other hand is:
Decent professional salary
Own my own home we both live in.

DP gives me money I rent every month and we take it in turns to do the food shop.

There are no issues regarding sharing of money other than his IVA he's paying off.

If we got married then his financial situation may affect mine which neither of us want.

I wanted to get married before babies but don't think getting married before his IVA finishes is a good idea?

If we wait until his IVA finishes to get married I will be just turning 34 and him 38.
So TTC at 34 and 38.

Ideally we'd like a few kids so if we run into any problems at me being 34 it may affect those chances due to my then age.

Do we just bite the bullet and forget about marriage until IVA is finished and TTC beforehand?

If I look at worst case scenario and we somehow split after babies without being married:
Financially I would be fine without marriage, actually I would be better off unless DP suddenly comes into money.

I could still afford to pay my mortgage and childcare of I were a single parent and he would have no claims on my property.

If I were to go part time after a baby then I'd be earning the same as him so wouldn't be the low earner.

DP is happy either way. Ideally we'd both like marriage and then babies for the commitment and romantic/love aspect of building a family within a marriage.

However pragmatically that doesn't make financial sense when we want kids and to keep me financially sound.

So wise mumsnetters, what would you do in this scenario?

FYI: DP has offered to have his salary paid into my bank account as we can't have joint due to his IVA affecting me he is happy for me to take whatever I require financially so long as his IVA is being paid. He doesn't want me affected at all or for me to feel swindled in any type of way financially. He is more than happy to have a "family pot" so to speak but is also happy to keep everything completely separate if I wish.

DP also has very much learnt about finances/interest rates etc. He's now become even more frugal than myself and we go through our finances together regularly. Very transparent on all fronts.

I am stuck in limbo and don't know what to do!
I'd love us to TTC next year when I'm thirty so we can take our time with babies and no rush to have them back to back. Also to give time to any potential fertility issues if there are any.

If we got married then his financial situation may affect mine which neither of us want.

Marriage doesn’t affect your finances like this. You will not become responsible for your spouse’s debts, nor will their credit rating impact yours.

The only way your partner’s finances would impact yours is if you got a financial product together, like a joint bank account, joint credit card, etc. Otherwise no, not at all.

That’s in England. Other countries may vary,

I think you definitely should start trying to conceive in the short term. He sounds like a good bet and you both now sound like you are thinking clearly about relationships, and money. I'm not qualified to advise about whether marriage is a good idea in relation to an IVA. My gut instinct would be that you are better off single for the time being. Personally I would put off marriage till later but you need competent legal and financial advice if you do marry.

@pog100

I think you definitely should start trying to conceive in the short term. He sounds like a good bet and you both now sound like you are thinking clearly about relationships, and money. I'm not qualified to advise about whether marriage is a good idea in relation to an IVA. My gut instinct would be that you are better off single for the time being. Personally I would put off marriage till later but you need competent legal and financial advice if you do marry.

Yes that's what I'm thinking.

I'm thinking we could have a "long engagememt" until his IVA ends. Although an engagement doesn't really mean anything with no set plans to marry. But maybe that may give a bit of satisfaction temporarily to us.

I don't really understand the ins and outs of us marrying with an IVA.

Everything online is quite conflicting. Apparently its fine so long as we don't combine finances like a PP said.

But on the other hand, the IVA worker said that my salary would be taken into account if married when redoing his yearly renews.

So instead looking at his salary and the payments, they'd combine both our salaries and calculate the payments based on that.

As I earn more than him then those repayments would be much higher and most definitely affect the "family pot" so to speak.

@ThatOtherPoster

If we got married then his financial situation may affect mine which neither of us want.

Marriage doesn’t affect your finances like this. You will not become responsible for your spouse’s debts, nor will their credit rating impact yours.

The only way your partner’s finances would impact yours is if you got a financial product together, like a joint bank account, joint credit card, etc. Otherwise no, not at all.

Thank you for your reply.

The IVA people said that if we were married then his repayments would be based on both our salaries combined as a household, rather than just his. So his payments would go up as he'd been seen as able to pay more due to me technically being able to pay for everything freeing up his income.
Is this not true?

It was stepchange that told us this.

If you are sure he's a good dad, don't put off babies for money. Better to get on with it while you are young! Not just fertility, also energy to parent small kids.

Trust stepchange, they are the ones who know this stuff. Check it out, but stepchange trumps stranger on a forum.

I dont think marriage would offer you any security at all, in fact the exact opposite. You could marry and in a few years if you split, he would get a share of your property and you would get a share of his debt. Having a baby is a real test of a relationship, many do not survive it. So if you want to TTC go for it, but I wouldn't compromise my financial situation just yet, wait till the IVA is done with. See what kind of parent he is and also if he is willing to continue to save and contribute to the family.

His finances will impact you if you get married, of course Stepchange are right.

How much spare money does he have each month?

I'm wondering whether he or you both could save up to end the IVA early by paying it off early?

If over the course of the IVA his creditors would get back 50p in the £ but they have to wait until the end of the IVA for most of this they would prefer to get 30p in the £ now and be done with it.

The above is just an example and I'm thinking he could save for 1 year and get his IVA finished.

Most IVAs are not suitable unless you have an asset to protect. Do you know how much he owed at the start and how much he pays monthly.
Some IVAs I saw the people were paying nearly as much as they owed so 80p in the £ when they couldn't afford anything.

Happy for you to PM if you want.

So you've been together for 2 years, and one year into that he set up the IVA, so he's had one year of 'sorted' finances, presumably with a lot of support and encouragement from you. That's not a long time compared with 10+ years of poor money management. If you took a step back would he continue with the good habits on his own? Transferring his salary and letting you manage the money might seem open or it might be an abdication of responsibility.

I'd give it another couple of years for you both to save and to be certain that the new approach was ingrained.

I would get married first and very soon so you can start TTC. Just have a low budget affair if money is an issue. You can always have a big party later.
Marriage is a much bigger commitment for men than having children. For anyone, words are cheap...if you're both truly on the same page, it makes sense that you both commit to each other before bringing children into the mix. An unmarried man is generally only liable for child maintenance and many many men evade even this, with no consequences whatsoever.

A marriage is a legal commitment and a joining together of two people who were previously legally single. That's a BIG difference.

I’d say ,don’t ever marry him
Not ever
Keep your house and money to yourself
He may well be a great dad
But he’s shit with his own money
Don’t give him chance to screw up your finances

@venusandmars

So you've been together for 2 years, and one year into that he set up the IVA, so he's had one year of 'sorted' finances, presumably with a lot of support and encouragement from you. That's not a long time compared with 10+ years of poor money management. If you took a step back would he continue with the good habits on his own? Transferring his salary and letting you manage the money might seem open or it might be an abdication of responsibility.

I'd give it another couple of years for you both to save and to be certain that the new approach was ingrained.

This. Don’t rush into anything - 12 months during this pandemic isnt even 12 months of normal life.

How would he feel about a pre-nup that ring fences your home so that he has no entitlement to it?

@MorgeMooney Prenups are not legally binding in the UK.

@venusandmars

So you've been together for 2 years, and one year into that he set up the IVA, so he's had one year of 'sorted' finances, presumably with a lot of support and encouragement from you. That's not a long time compared with 10+ years of poor money management. If you took a step back would he continue with the good habits on his own? Transferring his salary and letting you manage the money might seem open or it might be an abdication of responsibility.

I'd give it another couple of years for you both to save and to be certain that the new approach was ingrained.

The IVA was set up entirely by him. I had never even heard of stepchange until him.

The first year we didn't live together of course and he set it all up himself.

His situation in a very brief summary was this:

House mate moved out, he couldn't find another housemate to share rent/bill costs. During that time he didn't pay his car payments or certain other bills due to paying rent/bills.
He then couldn't save enough for a deposit to move elsewhere cheaper.

He was also self funding a college course before this happened whilst working full time.

It then kind of spiralled where he was making minimal payments here and there to people. To pay Peter, he'd have to not pay Paul etc.
Then it just kept spiralling.

He hasn't lived me with the full 2 years we've been together of course.

He was very open and honest when we started dating about his predicament with me/family/friends. He then sought advice from citizens advice who told him about stepchange.

Stepchange helped him sort it out.

It wasn't that he was spending his money on nights out/holidays etc.
It was a situation which he thought he could manage but snowballed.

It would have been a different situation if it was debt from a 'good time' and I wouldn't have even considered dating him if so.

I've seen all documents from his IVA/debters.

He was financially sound enough until then. Its that period of time that has ruined his finances.

Prenups are not legally binding in the UK.

True. However my solicitor told me they are useful because they show “intent”. So they can be used to show that somebody had the intention of acting in a certain way (being reasonable) before they then changed their mind (and decided to be a twat).

Yes I agree. That's why I wouldn't ttc as yet.
I was thinking the end of next year when we have then been together over 3 years.

He'd however still have the case of the IVA for a further 2 years after that.

If it wasn't for the IVA I'd marry him tomorrow.

But I have to think pragmatically and really analyse all our options.

@LivBa

I would get married first and very soon so you can start TTC. Just have a low budget affair if money is an issue. You can always have a big party later. Marriage is a much bigger commitment for men than having children. For anyone, words are cheap...if you're both truly on the same page, it makes sense that you both commit to each other before bringing children into the mix. An unmarried man is generally only liable for child maintenance and many many men evade even this, with no consequences whatsoever.

A marriage is a legal commitment and a joining together of two people who were previously legally single. That's a BIG difference.

I do agree generally speaking. However in this situation DP financially has nothing and I financially do.

So in divorce he would still only have to pay child maintenance. Really makes no difference financially other than risks to me.

I do wish to marry him for the commitment reasons though.
I just have to be practical on all fronts (kids/marriage).

Of you’re better off financially than he is, and it’s likely you will be for the foreseeable then just don’t get married yet.

Trust step change; they help people all the time and have absolutely no benefit in lying.

Have you thought about finances whilst on maternity leave and if/how much you’ll work after?

Of=if

@FTEngineerM

Of you’re better off financially than he is, and it’s likely you will be for the foreseeable then just don’t get married yet.

Trust step change; they help people all the time and have absolutely no benefit in lying.

Have you thought about finances whilst on maternity leave and if/how much you’ll work after?

Thank you for your advice.

Yes stepchange seem really good and knowledgeable so I most certainly won't be going against their information unless legally proven otherwise. Especially not if it may negatively impact me and my future.

I've looked at my works maternity leave and it is enhanced. I'd get something like full pay for 3 months and then half pay for 6 months.

So that plus savings mean I could take a full year off without DP (as a worst ever case scenario).

With DPs money then it would actually be a very comfortable maternity leave without having to touch any savings.

I do believe in marriage. But at the same time, I also need to keep my practical head on and not be ruled purely by heart.

No way I would marry this man and make him entitled to half my assets.

Then you’re making the right choice IMO. Like you, I would wait.

Marriage is great for the commitment but you can do that after and still love each other just as much.

Good luck, either way you’ve got a super fun few years coming up

I think you both sound like you are being very sensible. I would TTC if you are sure of the relationship but marriage is for security, financial on a practical level.

In your situation marriage would be the opposite as you rightly say. It doesn’t show any more commitment to kids/the relationship than you already have.

So yes TTC and put off marriage until you are sure he’s sorted.