Is my Mum toxic?

[Lullaby88]

It might have come to my realisation that my mum might have been toxic ever since and I am now 32.
When I was growing up I'd be guilt tripped, i'd begin second guessing myself a lot, id discreetly and occasionally be compared to my older sister and other cousins. Id feel really anxious if i got home a little late as id face a massive argument and be reminded over and over again for my mistakes. It turned me into a weak person who always wanted approval for everything. Im highly anxious in relationships because i cant face the pain of the guilt.
On the flip side my Mum is a very caring person and I know she had done everything that she has with her heart thinking itl help me.
Im married now and iv realised it through my relationship how anxious i feel if i argue with my husband, iv improved and recognised things over the years and its made me resent my Mum as she still behaves likes this even though im a grown adult.
The latest comment i had was try to breast feed ur baby this time round (im pregnant) she saw how emotional it was for me the last time i couldnt manage, i was EBMing round the clock shattered! And she said it like a passing comment as if I wasnt going to try and id failed the last time. I feel so distant from my Mum now. We used to be very close but i can recognise it was toxic too like i was never good enough for her. I felt bullied into making decisions aswel.
Iv been faulted about my parenting and its moved on to that now. I hav a daughter and if id discipline her id get told off from my Mum, dont shout her, dont do this. She loves my daughter a lot as i do and i dont like my daughtet eating junk food etc im not supported in my parenting at all. Once we went shopping with my Mum and my daughter i thought itd be a great day. But i was just faulted throughout i bit my tongue that day. But the second time it happened i told my Mum on the way home i end up feeling like utter shit of a mum after iv spent time with u. She opened the car door at a traffic light and said she will walk the journey home which is like 45 minutes walk. Again i felt guilt tripped and drove round crying begging her to get in the car and she did. Im just so confused because this is my Mum. I love her but i feel crap at times when im around her, like drained out especially after my daughter came along. Il be talking to my Mum and she doesnt listen to anything i have to say as shes focussed on my daughter. I think its cute but theres a limit. Once i asked my Mum if i can spend some time alone with her and she said if my daughter isnt coming then noooo she wants her there and that i should come with her.
I feel like my relationship is ruined a bit. But she supports me loads and helps me and deep down i know she has a good heart. I dont know how to handle this though.

That doesn’t sound like she’s bothering about your feelings at all, she’s just doing what pleases her and balls to you. Mine does this if I let her. It’s horrible.

She also sounds horribly confused trolling. What does your husband observe of it all?

Bugger! Typo! Hugely controlling, was what I was trying to say!

Sounds like my mother.
Somehow I didn’t realise until age 38 (after watching many YouTube videos on the subject) that she’s a Covert Narcissist.
Now I try to limit contact for my own sanity.
You have my complete sympathy, it sucks.
Unfortunately they can never change, you just have to try to manage things from your side - ie your expectations, set boundaries etc.

Yes she is toxic and she is not going to be a good influence in your child either. She was not a good parent to you when you were growing up and she has not changed funds since then. Toxic parents like this make for bring toxic as grandparent figures too. Her actions are not based on love, they are based in power and control. She is not helping you and infact does not want to help you. The only person she cares about is her own self. She sees your daughter as an ideal source of narcissistic supply.

You both need to stay well away from your mother going forward, she wants to make your daughter here the golden child just as she did with your sister. She will further use your child to get back at you and will harm her in not too dissimilar ways as to how you have been affected.
Have a read too and consider posting on the well we took you to Stately Homes thread on these Relationships pages. Do also read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward.

I feel sympathy for you OP, covert narcs are all around. My mum is one too and we are NC.

Ask yourself, as a grown independent woman with her own life, why you desperately need her approval? You will never get it, its her little bit of power she enjoys, making you feel less than her.

Grey rock technique might help you, if youre willing to go low contact. Her impact will be spreading to your daughter and husband, time to be strong.

I don't really believe in toxic people. Everyone has good and bad in them. It's just whether the good is worth the bad IYSWIM? I think you need to set some boundaries, her strop and following around in the car is not acceptable, nor is her undermining you as a parent or constantly criticising you. Does she have mental health issues?

Of course, if this is having a big impact on you where you feel like you can't bounce back from these comments, and that it is causing you too much upset and distress, it is always acceptable to go Low Contact or no contact, whether the person is family or otherwise. Nobody is entitled to a relationship with anyone else. Even parents do not have a right to a relationship with their children, their responsibilities always come first. If they cannot be responsible then they lose those rights. We do not have to spend time with anyone who is detrimental to our mental health.

Really you need to work out whether you want a relationship with her, how much of a relationship and set your own terms. It may be that whole days out are too much, whereas an hour or two goes much better (say at the local park or for a coffee, somewhere you can make a get away if things get tricky!)

I absolutely love my mum and spending time with her, but we argue sometimes when she feels taken for granted and I feel got at. She thinks she's being helpful, I think she's being critical. There is also a lot of issues in the past where even though we can talk about it sometimes there are still negative feelings that come up. Then there is the disagreeing about how I parent my kids, and when she thinks I'm criticising how she parented. There are always going to be those issues.

But if it is a pattern of emotional abuse where she is eroding your sense of self esteem, gas lighting and manipulating you that's different. Do you think she's being emotionally abusive? Or just insensitive/thoughtless?

Have to say ‘confused trolling’ should definitely become a new phrase!

OP, what you are describing is certainly unhealthy behaviour on her part. You’ve recognised you have difficulty setting boundaries with people and it scares you if there is conflict. You probably also take responsibility for other people’s feelings because this is the message you got growing up. If you want a relationship with mum going forward, you might need to manage it carefully and firmly. Factual and calm statements: ‘you know I’m planning to bf and that I found it hard last time, mum. I’d prefer to talk about something else.’ Try not to play her game with ‘you make me feel’ because you are in control of how you react and you will reinforce her sense of power and control over you. The classic ‘when you say x, I feel y’ may help as it’s non-blaming but states your feelings. She is not likely to change unless she gains insight and motivation that her relationships may improve if she does so. Some counselling might help you process your relationship with her in a safe space and help you work on your own patterns of relating.

I always felt something wasnt right. And its come to my realisation now. Its really tough because my Mum has a good heart and I really dont think she realises she does this. But yeah its not healthy. Thinks its been pointed out by my husband in a subtle way. I feel like i have a lot to recover from tbh as its made me a person as someones pointed out that is always looking out for other people in a sense and feeling bad if i dont do something someone else would like.
I couldnt cut ties with my Mum. But id be looking out for any comments and will handle it better now than i wouldv years ago. I dont spend a lot of time with her esp since all this lockdown stuff i was also guilt tripped for that and it ruined a lot between us as i was not comfortable visiting there at all. Just happy i can see it all now.

Hello OP,

Are you me? So many things in your story resonate with me, in particular that of your mother seeming to care more about seeing and caring for your daughter than meeting up with you to sort stuff out between her and you.
The issue is, she probably has no intention of sorting out the relationship between you and her. She wants to play your daughter up against you and make herself the favourite. Oh I had many many experiences where my mother would purposely make me doubt myself and my choices in parenting only for her to sweep in with big gestures and give my daughter what she wanted, no questions or parenting "because that's what grannies are for". No it isn't, the parents have first say in how yo parent their own children!

I have come out the other end OP and I wish the same for you. I went NC once pregnant with my second daughter and my own mother said she would never like or love her second grandchild as much as her first. It was as a switch and I finally realised she was an ill woman. FWIW the last three years have been hard without help but absolute bliss. I can parent! And I can take care of myself and my children just as well without her in my life, constantly criticising or "giving advice" . As other posters have said, read up about narcissistic mothers. When I started reading all the scales fell from my eyes and I understood so many things that didn't make sense in my own childhood. Once it was seen I couldn't unsee it and would not let my mother loose around my children again.

Best of luck OP, your future's happiness in the relationship with your parent is all in understanding what the motivation is for your mother's behaviour. Xo

@spanishdreamcometrue

Hello OP,

Are you me? So many things in your story resonate with me, in particular that of your mother seeming to care more about seeing and caring for your daughter than meeting up with you to sort stuff out between her and you.
The issue is, she probably has no intention of sorting out the relationship between you and her. She wants to play your daughter up against you and make herself the favourite. Oh I had many many experiences where my mother would purposely make me doubt myself and my choices in parenting only for her to sweep in with big gestures and give my daughter what she wanted, no questions or parenting "because that's what grannies are for". No it isn't, the parents have first say in how yo parent their own children!

I have come out the other end OP and I wish the same for you. I went NC once pregnant with my second daughter and my own mother said she would never like or love her second grandchild as much as her first. It was as a switch and I finally realised she was an ill woman. FWIW the last three years have been hard without help but absolute bliss. I can parent! And I can take care of myself and my children just as well without her in my life, constantly criticising or "giving advice" . As other posters have said, read up about narcissistic mothers. When I started reading all the scales fell from my eyes and I understood so many things that didn't make sense in my own childhood. Once it was seen I couldn't unsee it and would not let my mother loose around my children again.

Best of luck OP, your future's happiness in the relationship with your parent is all in understanding what the motivation is for your mother's behaviour. Xo

Going through exactly the same thing at the moment! Just wondering how you deal with other family members, do you explain why you’ve cut your mum off? Or do you just keep quiet and not discuss it as to not slander her. I’ve been NC with my DM for over a year now, but when extended family members ask why I haven’t visited/seen DM I’m still in the stage where I say I’m busy etc. I think they sort of know what’s going on, as mine and DM’s relationship has never been great.