Had enough, need advice on how to resolve this!

[Everythingstaken]

Over 7 years ago when visiting DPs DH & I had an argument with DFIL over something and nothing but hurtful comments were made. It confirmed that DFIL had huge issues with me and that he held a great deal of resentment towards DH but for very petty things. This happened when our DCs were 7 & 3 and before our third DC was born. Anyway since then he’s never spoken to us again. DMIL was initially very distressed about it but ovef the years has just resigned herself to it being what it is and makes no attempt to speak to DFIL about it.
To be honest not having contact with him has been a huge relief for us as he wasn’t ever hands on or loving or caring, but it’s taken it’s toll on us emotionally because it didn’t need to be this way and it has made family events non existent. As our children have grown older it has become harder and harder to gloss over as we do try to maintain a relationship between DFIL and our children by taking them over to visit and letting them go for visits in the summer holidays for example, but every time we take them we are completely ignored by DFIL, he only talks to the children.
Lockdowns and restrictions this year and last have obviously prevented pretty much all visiting and stop overs, DFIL has a condition that makes him more vulnerable to Covid and they also live in an area of the country that has barely come out of restrictions. Our children have had no contact other than a phone call on their birthdays from DMIL and we only managed one driveway visit at Christmas in 2020.
So yesterday we had met up with DHs DSis and for a day out with the children so they could actually see each other face to face after all this time! We live about 30 miles from Dsis & DMIL. We decided afterwards that maybe as we were in the area of DMIL to pop by and visit (outdoors/distanced/following all rules) as we are still very much following all rules and not travel excessively. DMIL was so happy to see us, we’ve not seen her properly in over a year. I think what shocked me was that DFIL just refused to come outside, it just felt like such a low. He spoke to the children DMIL got me and DH to sit in the garden and she ferried the children to speak to him in the doorway to the kitchen. My youngest wanted me to go with her but DMIL told my eldest DD to hold her hand and bring her.
It was just a mistake to go. It was just so uncomfortable and awkward and just felt really disappointing. I just don’t know why we thought it would be a good idea! It’s just brought back all the negative emotions and feelings.
I started off writing this because I have had this whirring in my head and I just feel like something needs to give. I feel that Covid has made me pause and reflect on what’s important and I really had hoped that DFIL would have too. I think I had hoped for a better outcome. I just feel that we can’t continue in this way, but I don’t think that we will ever make inroads with DFIL. I just don’t know what to do!

I should add that I think my emotions are heightened and my resolve weakened after a year of pretty much having no support as has been the case for most people at this time. I think I am desperate for the GPS to care about my children and for my children to feel cared about. It doesn’t help that my parents are also not very involved. I think it’s just hit me that our situation is just so sad!

Some people are just stubborn and I don’t think you will get through to him as he either stands by what he said, or has no face to climb down from his high horse without losing face.

So someone else has to make the first move.

Perhaps a letter from your DH to the old bugger saying that covid has given him the chance to reflect about things and although hurtful things were said the last time you spoke, you are sorry for any hurtful things which you said.

That you know he’s entitled to his own opinion about past things which and that it would be nice to be civil and speak to each other again about other things, as covid has reminded us all that life is too short.

I feel sorry for your poor mother. Her feelings clearly aren’t worth a button to him.

No way to climb down

You can’t change him op. Unfortunately he sounds stubborn and unwilling to change. The narrative in his head is that you are at fault/to blame and it seems unlikely to change. Your only choice is how much you want to engage...i think what you are doing is fair although I know you would like a more usual relationship. I understand your distress, but it’s either continuing as you are, or going no contact. Which option sits better with you?

It sounds like your children have some form of relationship with their grandparents. It’s just the fall out from the argument between your father in law, your husband and you that is the problem in the family But it sounds like others have adapted to it. I assume they realise and accept that your relationship has fallen apart and it doesn’t seem likely it will be repaired between the 3 of you. Hopefully you never want the same thing for them.

Basically you need to ensure that your children learn from whatever happened. Obviously I don’t know what the lead up was or how things descended into what must have been an angry and toxic argument. It might just have been all down to your father in law but I doubt it was that simple.

As your children get older you can explain things without blame. In the meantime teach them to be able to agree to disagree and to be able to express their opinions without anger or insult. That arguments are futile, because nobody is listening to each other, and that they should disengage as soon as things get heated and angry. Teach your children that others are allowed to be different, in appearance and opinion. That they should respect difference and understand it. Not rail against it all the time.

I think FIL has made his feelings crystal clear.There is no reasoning with him,he doesnt want ANY relationship with you at all and you arenot listening.Now he could be a stubbern fool or a complete shit but he has made his decision.What I find worse than his appalling behaviour though is the fact that you are emeshing your children in this situation. You went to see them and I know you will have known what kind of welcome you would recieve from FIL why? You will damage your own children if you carry on with this charade,One of your children has already oicked up on this weird behaviour by asking you to hold their hand and go to the door with them.This is not normal OP.Your child was trying to smooth over things and knew something was wrong hence the come on mummy bit, Its an awful position for a child to be in,to realize mum and dad are not welcome..why are mum and dad bad people? etc .Let it go.They are clear your inlaws about how they feel and you are not listening.You are trying to with the best will in the world force something that isnt and will not be there.But to involve th ekids too will just hurt them.Time now to walk away and look after your own family,You do not need inlaws they dont want you you should listen to them.Your children will miss out on nothing I promise you.Please dont confuse you children and put them in this position again where they are being told mum and dad are bad people who cannot go in grandmas house...its awful.Just walk away Op and be done with it. Until you do you will have no peace of mind and remain trapped by this situation.You cant carry on like this you deserve more.Let the inlaws be and let them get on with their lives you do the same and keep your kids out of it,They will have gained nothing your kids from this visit except confusion and worry,You did your best it hasnt worked,Accept it wont and walk away and be happy.

What Lollypop wrote here.

Everyone here has tiptoed around FIL including his wife and she ferrying your kids up to their house to pay homage to him basically further enables his behaviours to continue. Its rewarding his bad behaviour and she is fearful of him too. Goodness alone knows what he is like behind closed doors when its just the two of them. He likely cannot remember at all what this argument was about but he certainly likes holding a grudge against you and his son and indeed he's never spoken to you again. It gives him power to do that. My guess is he has always been abusive and its not your fault he is the ways he is.

It does not do your children any favours either for they to keep on seeing you as their own parents being openly disrespected like this. Children need emotionally healthy grandparents in their lives and their grandad in particular is not such a person.

"I think I am desperate for the GPS to care about my children and for my children to feel cared about".

You need to ask yourself why that is, that keeps you trapped. Its no reflection on you as a person, I say that as maybe your own identity is partly tied up in such thinking. You likely had nice grandparents and want your kids to have the same experience. However, not all grandparents are nice and kind and indeed some of them are abusive; that is not your fault.

Your MIL gets what she wants out of the relationship she has with her husband and she to my mind is not much better than him. Stop trying to further force a relationship.

Over 7 years ago when visiting DPs DH & I had an argument with DFIL over something and nothing but hurtful comments were made. It confirmed that DFIL had huge issues with me and that he held a great deal of resentment towards DH but for very petty things

Come on OP you are going to have to tell us what the falling out was over - you very much gloss over it. You say hurtful comments were made - just by him? Or by all 3 of you? And I couldn’t help notice this phrase: “To be honest not having contact with him has been a huge relief for us as he wasn’t ever hands on or loving or caring”.

It seems that you’re only consideration for your husbands father is what he can bring to your children, and not for him as a person in his own right. That’s really sad. If I were your husbands father I think I’d be pretty upset about that but of course we’re only getting a tiny fraction of the story.

I am sure you have but have you tried apologising for your part on the original disagreement?

Hi OP I am in a similar situation in my own family.

My father is an absolute nightmare of a person and everyone in the family enables him.

We have walked away from it completely because we realised that we were actually participating in the enabling behaviour in the family too.

You find in these situations that it is the mentally healthier and stronger people who get out when there is no solution to be found. The best piece of advice I got on our situation and it is one that applies here too it is very likely that this is the tip of the iceberg for your FILs behaviour rather than a once off given the extreme behaviour that he has chosen not to moderate, even years after the row between you. Your DH is likely to have been pretty conditioned at tiptoeing around this behaviour all his life. In my family my sister married a man just like my father and the whole family dislike him. The irony is totally lost on them.

You are visiting and therefore moving in to a position to communicate with him. He is not moving in to communicate with you. Whatever the issue was, he has fully controlled the situation for years. He talks to MIL, he talks to DCs, he ignores you. It's all about him having his way and you all appeasing him.

What a incredible control freak he is, and what amazing enablers you are.

It's not necessarily enabling to be polite and leave the door open. If you were to cut both of them off, then that would be enabling him, too- playing his game by his rules.

Keep up contact with MiL and SiL, in a normal way. It's FiL whose behaviour is weird and that will just get more evident over time.

Grey rock is the best medicine- no apologetic letters, or requests to try again. He's having a tantrum and it should be kindly ignored, like an overtired toddler.

Just to add, if you do as I say, he'll either eventually give in and come round a bit or he'll escalate at which point SiL and MiL need to worry about it.

You don't need to do anything.

Thank you everyone for your replies. I posted in haste this morning, for some reason this visit in particular hit me hard and I just felt so emotional! I do feel like we need to take back some control of the situation and my request for advice was because I am very confused about the best approach to take moving forward. I don’t want my children to witness this anymore as I do think it is damaging and confusing. I will sit and reflect on this this evening. Thank you again for taking the time to post me your thoughts.

I think when you’re so emotionally embroiled in a situation and in this case I feel I made the situation worse (in involving myself in the original argument) it’s hard to think clearly about it. I carry so much guilt, I blame myself entirely for loosing my composure. My husband refuses to discuss it as that’s his way of coping so I find myself overthinking it!

Please stop inflicting the old git on your dc... If he has no respect for you he shouldn't be having a relationship with your dc...

Your family seem to think that ignoring the problem is easier than dealing with it. It's not It's making it worse.
You all seem to be playing a part in not facing it.
You two can apologise by letter for your part in the argument and say you'd like to draw a line under it. Life's too short to not be together as a family and how can we move forward. Say how nice it would be to have the odd family get together with them and sister in law family.

"My husband refuses to discuss it as that’s his way of coping so I find myself overthinking it!"

His way of coping with it does not work and his own inertia when it comes to his parents simply hurts him as much as you. He also needs to stop using you as some sort of buffer between they and you too; make him face up to his discomfort here properly. They are his parents but his own FOG (fear, obligation and guilt) plays a huge role in his thinking too.

Do you think your FIL feels at all guilty, nah not a bit of it. He has instead decided not to talk to you people these past 7 years; this argument that he cannot remember gave him a ready made excuse to no longer talk to you. Such types like nothing more than a fight and or the last word and he has had both.

I'm going to be blunt. He's a man child and needs to get over himself. If he has not learnt anything from being in a pandemic (granted we shouldn't need a pandemic to appreciate others) and how precious time and people are then I truly pity him. What a bell end.

Pp it sounds like you have tried so hard for you dfil to have involvement with your dcs. I wouldn't bother in future as its only you and your dcs that will get hurt. My dcs didn't have anything from their grandparents not even a hello. Its not effected my dcs in any way. Its hard when you do things on your own. Although it feels amazing when they are older and you have the knowledge of doing it alone. People have a way of destroying family's and bonds within them.

I can very much relate as my parents were not keen to be involved and l only met my MIL at my husband's funeral.
I used to get very hurt and upset about it but now l accept it is what it is, l can't force them to be different, l was only upsetting myself , as my sons didn't know any different. So l just let it go, focused on being the best parent l could, and it was the best thing l could have done as the worry of it to weigh me down quite heavily. Remember that he actions of others has nothing to do with you. The way people behave, react , and treat you is a reflection of who they are and not you. I would try and focus on all the things that are working in your life, he's missing out on a lot more than you ever will.