concerned my bro's partner is making him mentally ill

[middlewaymom]

My brother has never been very good a picking girlfriends and they invariably dominate him, he loses his confidence and gets depressed, and they they break up and he ends up getting into another relationship with someone similar.

My brother's latest partner is a surgeon, she is fun, intelligent, down to earth, practical and high functioning. She is extremely driven and is very focussed on her career and what she wants out of life. She has lots of money, good friends and leads an exciting life of travel and volunteers in developing countries a lot. My brother thinks she is amazing and is the love of his life/life partner.

They met at a festival just after my brother had got out of a really bad relationship with someone who isolated him from his friends and family and ultimately stopped being affectionate to him...this caused his confidence to crash and it took him a long time to build up the courage to leave her. Instead of giving himself time to heal, grow, work out what he wanted, my brother dives into a relationship with the surgeon. It was a wirlwind romance and has seen them jetting all over the world. My brother now livs with her in a flat that she and her sister bought which is a building site and which she is renovating.

My brother is a very kind, considerate, diplomatic and empathetic person. He is also very eager to please and has been a people pleaser his whole life, constantly saying yes to what people demand of him.

Since he has moved in with her, the family don't hear much from him and we are getting a bit worried about him. In previous relationships, this is usually a sign that all is not well.

His girlfriend is a whirlwind and is very demanding/expects a lot and he has started to help her do up the flat whilst working full time and also trying to build her a big shed in the garden. He does not own the flat or have any financial stake in it and I get the impression that my brother is expected/feels obligated to help with the renovations as he is living there. He does pay rent and they split everything 50/50 bills/living expenses-wise.

He is also constantly trying to keep up with her. She is going to study a PhD a few hundred miles away from where they live. My brother now feels he should be getting back into education and is looking at expensive courses that he can't really afford, whilst trying to work, and save money so he can buy out his girlfriend's sister from the flat they currently live in.

It all sounds very laudable, but I am worried it is too much for him and he is running himself ragged. I saw him recently and he had lost lots of weight and was looking stressed. He had lost his lightness and has become very serious and is constantly going on about how he needs to do this/that, fix this/that about himself and he is being very very hard on himself. He has been like this in previous relationships that have not been very healthy.

It is very negative self talk and I think he's being nitpicked by her constantly. She often complains jokingly and seriously in front of me and the family that my brother doesn't do what he said he will do and that he never finishes things, and this/that is taking ages. This does have a ring of truth and my brother has always struggled to multitask and gets overwhelmed and anxious which shuts him down and means he cant think or make decisions which to a strong woman makes them think he is useless.

I think that the constant nagging and moaning is affecting his mental health health and he is starting to doubt himself, make silly mistakes and is suffering from stress. I am very worried about him and I think that if he continues on like this, he will have a nervous breakdown.

His partner is always on the go and never seems to chill. My brother needs time to rest and recuperate but there's never any opportunity for this as he is expected to work, finish projects and then lead a full social life as well as cook, engage in sport and have weekends away.

I have also noticed some button-pushing and controlling signs from her, but this could be because she feels that my brother cannot handle what is on his plate.

It's not that I think she is a bad person, but is not a great match for my brother and she is frustrated that he can't play at her level and handle everything like she does. I know my brother well and feel he would benefit from a kind and nurtering partner who is softer and more low-key and allows him to shine in his own way.

I know it's not my place to interfere but I am worried about him. Our mom has said he needs to stand on his own two feet now and make his own decision, which I get but I am concerned he has no support network and is prideful so won't seek help.

I'd love to get some feedback on the situation ladies

What were your parents and upbringing like that left him with chronic relapsing depression?

What has he done to reflect, learn and manage his own MH and emotional development - as it seems he is the common denominator with failed RS and depression?

You seem very preoccupied, judgmental and possibly jealous and controlling regarding your brothers relationships.

Why do you have so much information (has he proactively brought this to you?) and opinions - are you concerned that as an adult your own boundaries are out of kilter?

Your mother is right and you need to back off. You sound rather jealous of this high-flying surgeon. Could it be that the softer, low-key partner you'd prefer would allow you to remain queen bee in the family?
Never mind the controlling girlfriends - he seems to have a weirdly controlling sister, too. Don't you have a life of your own?

Young men are the most likely group to commit suicide and they are also the least likely to seek help.

Your observations show real insight and compassion for your brother.
He is a lucky to have a sister that cares for him like you do.

I don't have much else to offer other than to try and talk to him and ask him if he is genuinely able to be himself and feel relaxed in his relationship. And just tell him you are worried about him. Even that could help him

He needs to address his own issues. I don't see anything this woman has done other than be successful and ask him to finish tasks he starts, which is hardly unreasonable.

Your brother is a grown up. If he has recurring depression and low self esteem (I do too so I sympathise) he needs to seek therapy.

@katy1213

Your mother is right and you need to back off. You sound rather jealous of this high-flying surgeon. Could it be that the softer, low-key partner you'd prefer would allow you to remain queen bee in the family? Never mind the controlling girlfriends - he seems to have a weirdly controlling sister, too. Don't you have a life of your own?

I think the thread title is pretty unfair. You know he has a pattern of this kind of thing so to blame her for possibly making him 'mentally ill' just really isn't nice.

You clearly love and care about him a lot but you also could be being extremely biased, only seeing his good points and not his bad points and blaming things on her that perhaps aren't her fault.

Her family and friends could have a completely different view and might see a lot of bad points in your brother or an impartial person could see something completely different.

You also won't be aware of the private dynamic between them, both the best bits and the worst bits!

I don't agree with nitpicking in front of people, but perhaps she thinks it's ok because it's in front of his family and you know what it's like. The other side of that is that women often post on here out of sheer frustration due to their partners saying they'll do things and then never doing them, taking too long, never finishing them and so on and it dramatically increases their stress levels and increases their mental load and so on.

It's also kind of strange that you seem to know so much about their finances and bill sharing arrangements, how did you find out that information?
Also you said he wants to buy out the sister from the flat, so surely he intends to have a stake in the house so it makes perfect sense for him to contribute to renovations now?

My brother needs time to rest and recuperate but there's never any opportunity for this as he is expected to work, finish projects and then lead a full social life as well as cook, engage in sport and have weekends away.

Well obviously work and finishing projects are generally things that have to be done. Cooking also has to be done.
Having a full social life, well that is something that requires compromise and he shouldn't feel like he has to, but it's up to him to say no.
Who is expecting him to engage in sports?
Weekends away are surely something that many couples want also.

You said you've also noticed some button pushing and controlling behaviour from her. It seems strange that you put that as a little side note at the bottom after going into detail about earlier stuff so I am guessing that what you've noticed is either minor or that you are just making assumptions. Perhaps you should explain what button pushing and controlling behaviour you have noticed?

I absolutely think you should speak to him if you're worried he is about to have a nervous breakdown but I don't think it sounds like it's this womans fault, perhaps he can't handle the pressure of a relationship with a woman like her who likes to have a full life, that doesn't mean that she is the one doing anything wrong though, or that she's the one putting pressure on him, perhaps he is selling himself as something he isn't and that's where the pressure is coming from.

You said I know my brother well and feel he would benefit from a kind and nurtering partner who is softer and more low-key and allows him to shine in his own way.

but it doesn't sound like he chooses that type of woman and you can't tell him what kind of woman to pick and that kind of sounds like a school report or something "Little Johnny would benefit from some kind of arts activity which will allow him to shine!!"

I just really think the focus needs to be on how you're worried about him and the pressure that he puts himself under and the things he is taking on, such as looking into starting a new course and so on and mention how stressed he seemed and the weight loss and so on, but from the sounds of it it doesn't really sound like his partner is causing it at all!

My mom and I used to have similar worries about my brother, but over the years we have learned that all we can do is be there for him and support him when he gets low. It’s not up to us to tell him how to live his life, tho we do give our opinions if asked.

You are coming from a good place, but need to step back I think. What is the alternative? Murder this woman (whose only “crime” to be fair is being a little high-octane) ? There is nothing you can do to change this situation, so you need to let it be.....

I think the thread title is pretty unfair. You know he has a pattern of this kind of thing so to blame her for possibly making him 'mentally ill' just really isn't nice.

100%

I would look much closer to home to uncover the source of his recurrent depressive episodes / poor mental health / lack of self esteem.

Is your DF in the picture? What was your parents marriage and their parenting like?

He might well benefit from some therapy to resolve any issues once and for all rather than tripping through a series of painful relationships.

I always ask this but did he have some sort of mild/undiagnosed learning issues at school? Is he bright (and therefore attracted to other bright people) but cannot keep up with them because he is being blocked by a wiring issue? Or is he a bit passive and wants to lean on someone strong? (Doesn’t sound like that as you say he works hard trying to keep up). He’s lucky to have you but try to make sure your support involves helping him to help himself rather than shielding him.

If his partner really is as go-getting as you say, the chances are she’ll get tired if your (lovely, gentle, lower-key) brother anyway. And then he’ll be free to find a sweeter-natured homebody.

I love my brother and he’s with a GF that I cannot STAND! I get your worries.

Thank you everyone for your comments - lots of food for thought.

i'm sorry but I agree with the poster who said you're the controlling one and you sound jealous that you'll no longer be an alpha female in your brothers life. Gonna get a lot of stick for saying that but hey ho.

Fully understand your post and just wanted to let you know that I wish you all well, rather close to home so getting a bit upset but I think you need to boost him when you can and just be there for him. Ignore posters attacking you, you are trying your best in a difficult situation.

Honestly it sounds like your brother is neurodiverse and on some kind of spectrum , asd or adhd for example. Maybe this might be worth speaking to him about and may help him cope better.

I'm sorry but this post reeks of sexism to me.

If it was your sister who was with a 'go getting' surgeon I bet you and
your family would think it marvellous and no-one would be suggesting a successful man needed to be kinder and more nurturing to be a worthy partner.

Maybe he finds intelligence and ambition attractive. A lot of men do (or at least they do until it means them having to make any compromises themselves)

If he plays his cards right there's a lot in this for him eg a good household income and a final salary pension.

Your brother is a grown man who can presumably make his own choices. I love my siblings and sometimes I have thought their partners treated them badly in certain situations. Maybe they have thought the same about mine but overall our relationships work. In the end no-one is perfect and all relationships have their good and bad aspects. It is very rarely helpful for family to get involved and start pushing their opinions.

My DH's brother met someone with a similar attitude. He always had to earn more, better himself, show he was worthy, etc. He did get more training, a better paid job, more professional. Still gets picked at though. And he hates his job. It consumes all of his time and his family life suffers. Obviously his partner is now fed up that he doesn't spend enough time with them. But ultimately, he chose that path. His mother tried getting involved and all that happened was DH's brother pulled further away as he (rightly) resented the interference. My DH's relationship with him has also distanced (which is a real shame as they were very close), but my DH will always be there for him if he needs him, even just to talk. I think that's all you can do.

If he has always had issues with anxiety and struggling to keep up even though he works hard, it might be worth him talking to someone about it. If there was to be a diagnosis, it could benefit him in many ways to know it. It would reframe things for him and how he responds.
Since he is working, I would get a good recommendation and go private.

I think it’s really off when family members are immediately called controlling and jealous and “wanting to be queen bee” 🙄 when they have reservations about a sibling’s new partner.

I married a total dickwad first time round and I’d have given ANYTHING for my family to have admitted how they felt about him! Instead it only came out when we got divorced.

I know this surgeon doesn’t sound at all like a bad person. But the OP knows her brother, and his history, and what he’s like as a person FROM BIRTH, so she can probably tell whether he’s happy, or desperately stressed.

In essence, it sounds like your DB is a closet introvert trying to keep up with an extrovert girlfriend and is becoming more and more frazzled doing so.

She seeks constant stimulation. That is her nature. He would be more comfortable with a lower key lifestyle. That is his nature. Neither personality type is ‘better’ in an absolute sense. Both bring something valuable to the table. However, we live in a society that very strongly values extraversion over introversion.

Your DB needs to be able to know and accept himself as he truly is, even if his is not the personality type admired by society.

For now, he seems to want to be the sort of person who merits having an outwardly impressive girlfriend because society lauds go-getters, and if you can bag a go-getter, then you yourself must be worthy of regard. He won’t be the first introvert who has tried very hard to ignore their own innate characteristics to live as someone worthy of the extrovert catch.

I know it must be very frustrating to watch your DB getting tangled up in a keeping-up-with-the-extrovert-Joneses game, if there is no real joy in the game for him. However I’m not sure there is much you can do except to let your DB know how much you appreciate his intrinsic character traits so that he doesn’t feel he has to keep subduing his real self. That would seem to be the fundamental issue that needs to be addressed before girlfriend considerations are factored in.

I'm sorry, but this does come off really infantilising. When you talk about how your brother "needs rest and recuperation time" from his busy schedule of having a job and helping a bit with someone else's renovation, it sounds like you're describing a seriously ill child and not an (apparently) physically healthy adult. And blaming your brother's girlfriend for mental health issues, as PP have said, is not on. If he struggles with his mental health, it's on him to get counselling, develop good proactive self care strategies, build his own support network.
You say he's repeatedly chosen women like his current GF, so either he actually likes this kind of life or he has issues that, again, are his to work out in therapy. (And probably stem from his upbringing, so I wouldn't be so quick to cast aspersions on another woman whose crime, as PP say, seems to be being highly accomplished and driven.)

It's his life, and your evidence so far is that this is what he actively goes for. I think your mother is right and that you babying him and blaming his GF won't help. The most you can do is suggest he manages his mental health effectively himself and has a good network of friends. Don't paint the GF as the problem, unless you have much clearer evidence of actual abuse than you have here. She's just trying to have a life with a partner; if your DB doesn't like that life or can't cope with it or is so poorly boundaried that he can't say so, the only person who can address that issue is him.

I think I am needled by this post because it could be me and DH.
I suspect this is what his mum thinks of me.

I am an extrovert and by most standards my career is more successful and I am more academic than him. I am driven and competitive and he is shy, risk averse and so laid back he's in danger of falling over.

However it works. We've been pretty happily married for 20 years now. I appreciate his calmness and he likes my drive. We balance each other out.

In my eyes he actually is not less successful than me he's just good at different stuff that society values rather less. Being married to me has been good news for him because he is not under pressure to earn the main wage and can follow his lower paid career that he loves and is good at with no penalty. In return he has done more childcare when I wasn't able to.

When I used to date guys who were just like me it always wound up in a fight over who would be progressing their career which as a woman I knew I was destined to lose.

Honestly who are you to judge his relationship choices and say that he needs a sweet nurturing girl who doesn't challenge him?

It's easy to look from the outside criticise and it can be so damaging. Sometimes I have thought my Dsis DH doesn't appreciate her enough but in fact they have a very strong bond and he shows it in other ways. Or I have thought my SIL is being mean to my Dbro but later found out he pretty much deserved it.

I had to ask my DH that we distance ourselves from his mother's constant criticism of me early in our marriage or we would not have survived. One of his sisters did the same as she continually badmouthed her DH too. The other brother and sister let her interfere hugely because they needed her for money and childcare and it wrecked both their relationships.

Please just butt out and let him learn for himself. Be there if he needs a listening ear but don't blame it all on her the way you have in this post.

OP, you need to back off.

Your thread title is interesting, because you say that your brother's partner is making him ill, but your post suggests that he has long-standing problems that actually have nothing to do with her - his issues pre-date their relationship, and her biggest faults appear to be that she is successful and high energy?

I wonder if you feel a little threatened by her, and if you're projecting this onto your brother?

Your thread title is interesting, because you say that your brother's partner is making him ill, but your post suggests that he has long-standing problems that actually have nothing to do with her - his issues pre-date their relationship

Very salient point. You focus some criticism on this woman, OP, but the details you've included make it clear that your brother has a lifelong pattern of seeking out relationships with women who, by your description, "dominate" him. If he broke up with this woman, as you seem to want, on current patterns he would immediately go out and seek another woman like her.

Also, rereading, the worst thing you can actually say for sure about her is that she comments in front of you about something you acknowledge is true - your brother takes a long time to do things or doesn't do them at all. Youve characterised this as constant nagging and criticising while simultaneously saying you don't actually hear much from your brother at the moment, so you really have no idea whether he's being constantly nagged and criticised.

When a grown man's actual mother is telling you to back off (and it's nice to see a DM/proto-MIL who is wise and savvy enough to recognise that adult DC have to sort their own shit out and navigate their own relationships), it's probably time to back off and assess your own boundaries.