What would you make of these comments... ?

[PeoniesandRose]

I don't want to give the background story away as this is to do with a friend and I think the background will cloud people's judgement I'm just to know what people make of these comments.

If someone said to you, you need to stop being so horny, I haven't been in the mood for sex I say no you then convince me to have sex, I ask you to hurry up and finish because I'm not in the mood - does this sound to you like someone who has been coerced into having sex?

If someone told you that having a new baby was a novelty for you would you not think that was an off statement ?

I don't really understand what the actual comments were. Someone said "I say no you then convince me to have sex"? Someone said "Having a new baby is a novelty for you"?

This makes absolutely no sense

Subtitles please

I think having a baby is of course a novelty until you adjust.

As for the sex thing it sounds like someone is agreeing to sex when they’d rather not, but you’d need to know the conversation. And what occured prior to them agreeing to judge it.

Sorry.

So my friend while in a relationship her ex was sexually coercive, Df has said look her is an example where I've said I didn't want sex but in her words he wouldn't let up an convinced her to have sex. He is saying clearly you wanted sex, you said in other messages you've enjoyed it, so now she is wondering if it even was coercion. Now to me I know my friend, I know she wouldn't lie about that but to an outsider if you read a text like that where the alleged victim says I said no and you convince me would you think ok clearly she didn't want sex and effectively it's coercion ?

The novelty comment, df was breastfeeding and her ex got angry with her as their baby had been crying and her ex said she is nothing but a novelty to you. She called me crying after.. but he is now saying he didn't say that and he was saying having a baby was a novelty which I've told her in general is just a weird comment to make while out over breakfast

I'm really sorry but can you post again with punctuation please? Genuinely can't make out who said what.

Novelty and baby shouldn't go together no!

Ok...

A says to B ‘You need to stop being so horny, I haven't been in the mood for sex’

B then convinces A to have sex

A says to B ‘Will you hurry up and finish because I'm not in the mood’

Is that right?

Oh the enjoying it wasn't to that occasion.

"You need to stop being so horny, I haven't been in the mood for sex. I say "no," you then convince me to do it. I agree but ask you to "hurry up and finish" because I'm not in the mood."

Is that the gist of it?

No idea re the novelty baby thing.

X post.

@Whenthesunshines that is correct and df said would happen often.

Sorry for the lack of grammar, I was trying to keep it vague as I didn't want to give much away.

Well, it's great that he's her ex. But he's still abusing her when they do have contact, and she doesn't know enough about abuse to deal with his arguments. She needs to get better informed.

As I understand the "novelty" thing, her ex taunted her by saying that she saw the baby as a plaything, and thus was not a proper mother. Then when she complained, he gaslighted her by saying that's not what he said.

Your friend needs to have as little contact with him as possible, and try not to get involved in any discussion.

Anyone in the UK who can link to the websites of suitable anti-abuse organisations?

Are you on your phone ans struggling a bit?

Ultimately the relationship is over. She needs to focus on moving on, working on how to assert her boundaries in future. From what you’ve posted it’s hard to decipher if this was coercion or not, it certainly could be but depends on what he said. This is missing.

Well, he's obviously an arse.

The particular scenario described: he's one of those pests who probably believes the line that it's romantic to persuade a woman and sulks when it doesn't work, so yes, the nicest way to describe that behaviour is manipulation. She didn't want to have sex at that particular point and was coerced into it, by whatever means.

And the change of laws over marital rape has made it very clear that consent is not blanket and applies only to the one particular occasion on which it's given.

The novelty comment is a bit weird. It sounds like he was trying to say she'd had a baby in the same way that one might buy a new toy, without thinking through the implications of responsibility. Then he realised this made him sound like an arse and is backtracking.

But the main point I've taken from this is that he doesn't care about her wellbeing so it's absolutely correct that he's an ex.

@Bluntness100 yes unfortunately.

Issue is he is telling people he didn't coerce her too, saying she is mentally unstable. It doesn't help that it's also in court as well, so he is using that as his grand stage and basically saying she wanted it on other occasions she wanted it. But exactly that he would sulk and get angry when df wouldn't have sex, so she just gave in. She even has texts to him apologising for her sex drive being low after a period of a high sex drive.

I've said go no contact but anyone who has helped her with communication, myself included, he has made allegations in court about them.

rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/about-sexual-violence/sexual-consent/
"Consent does not look like:
Someone assuming that because you have had sex with them before, you want to have sex again"

If he's saying this kind of thing in court, then it's good, because he's admitting to something which was not consent.

I think it's just messing with DFs head. But I've said to her look you've said you convinced me into doing it, but effectively it's more he manipulated her. I mean if you tell someone im not in the mood, no, and continue to get them to agree as far as I understand it that's coercion.

My df is going a course through women's aid to help her with all of this but I think it's more him trying to make her look like a liar.

The irony is he has lied, df said ex called their child a p*ki, he has said why would I ever do that when I'm of Pakistani heritage but yet there is a text from him in her statements of him calling another person the exactly the same and called his parents it. Obviously he hadn't seen that but clearly he only likes to admit to things if he has to.

Glad to hear your friend is on the course. It isn't just him trying to make her look like a liar; it's also him trying to dominate her - to make her feel small and weak so that she will be afraid of him, and won't stand up to him, so that he gets his way. That's how abuse works.

Your friend needs to remember that when he lies about her in court, the people there will be very familiar with behaviour like his. They won't just believe it all.

Even if he just spreads lies among his mates down the pub, they might nod and smile, but they won't believe it all, and they'll be judging him.

From what you've posted I think she needs to have as little to do with him as possible.

@ravenmum thanks for this and I couldn't agree more.

@Jobsharenightmare problem is because of their child's age and a few health issues she doesn't have much choice. She has a solicitor but they're private so costs a lot and any intermediaries she has he makes allegations against so they end up not wanting to be involved.. not out of fear other than fear we may hit him for all his lies.