Normal vs toxic relationship passion

[frankiefirstyear]

Posting for a friend who came to me for advice (as I have had a toxic relationship in the past) however, I'm at a loss as to how to help her.

She had an on/off relationship with a man for 5 years (didn't date anyone else during the 'off' periods) who was verbally and emotionally abusive daily, but also turned to vandalism to her/their property and mild-moderate physical violence towards her.
The last 2 years she had FWB sort of deal with him until meeting a new guy last year.
Though she hated the terror the toxic relationship brought to her life, she describes life with the new guy as baseline, possibly boring, and wants him to be more of an aggressor towards her as the passion was so intense with the toxic. She pointed me towards 'love the way you lie' music video to show the sort of power seesaw/thrills she lived with for those years. She's struggling with the (healthy!) equality within the new relationship (though this is what she always dreamed of, and all she had experienced prior to toxic man). It's like the toxicity has altered her 'norm' in terms of drama level.

So my question is - is it normal to feel like that? What advice can I give her to help her move onto this lovely new guy properly?
I'm so scared for her that she might be thinking of going back to toxic guy (she's not said this though, it's just my fear for her).

I think passion has got so muddled up with madness. I'm remembering the film Betty Blue that I thought was so gripping when I was young.

I'm afraid it sounds like your friend has become acclimatised to the "passion" in a toxic relationship as normal. Maybe she is not getting that dopamine hit anymore that people do in toxic relationships and addictions.

In my limited experience, healthy relationships are calm with very little drama, is that what she is finding boring? Passion can be created in the bedroom with a bit of imagination.

It’s pretty simple actually, many women are intensely and intrinsically attracted to the shadow aspect in men (the reverse is true of us men towards women). Most toxic men and women have entirely unintegrated personalities and this means the shadow usually runs the show and is on full display.

Unfortunately the nice stable guys usually utterly repress and subjugate their own shadow side, and risk being boring and lacking passion as a result. Although resentment and ego can leak out in entirely unappealing passive aggression.

Good news is it’s usually easier to get a fundamentally stable person to integrate their own shadow than regulate a toxic person to become stable. Just requires some good communication and self-knowledge.

That's an excellent way to articulate it. Thank you.
She used the term 'boring' for want of a better word but it's not just in the bedroom, she says that there's never any stories to tell (lockdown won't help this at all!) but after the initial thrill of a new relationship and the falling in love stage, she feels it's a bit boring. She was always on tenterhooks with her ex, and she hated it because she couldn't ever relax, she seems to find this relationship too easy!
Logically she knows she's crazy but there's a pull towards the life she has so bravely left behind 😞

Yes it is in our shadow sides that reside a lot of our authenticity. The civil and polite side we show the world whilst crucial for navigating it effectively becomes entirely unfit for purpose in intimate connections.

I would tell your friend to look at the Freedom Programme to understand what a healthy relationship looks like. She thinks that the constant cycle of rejection and then hoovering back in that she will have been immersed in during the toxic relationship is normal. There’s a really good sticky post on this topic that she could read, and people signpost lots of good resources here too.

Here it is:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/698029-Right-listen-up-everybody

It’s called a Trauma Bond and it’s highly addictive.

I think she needs to work on herself and is clearly not ready for another relationship yet. It is also worth bearing in mind that life is bloody tedious for everyone at the moment. We are in lockdown and there is sod all to do.

Maybe he just isn't suitable but she is settling because she thinks its what she hs meant to do.

Maybe the guys a bit too much of a wet blanket for her. There can be excitement without abuse.

Plus the combo of her maybe needing to have some therapy herself. And with it being lockdown it's not like theres much room to do anything so convos are inevitably going to run flat.

There's no such thing as a 'normal' amount of passion. If she wants more than she's getting, she needs to address that in her current relationship or move on to somebody else. Maybe she'd like an S&M/sub/dom set up. That's fine. It doesn't mean she wants to be in an abusive relationship.

Nobody who has had a trauma bond loses it and then craves a trauma bond with somebody else. A trauma bond is an injury caused by a bad relationship. We crave the bits we like (potentially rough sex in this instance, and a bit of thrill/excitement in other ways) but we don't crave the traumatic attachment. She could have things depicted in that video within the constraints of a loving, respectful relationship. You don't have to be being abused/want to be abused to have rough sex.

She needs to listen to her feelings. If she's bored, she's bored. If has more exciting sex, or any sex at all, she needs to take her cues from the way she feels, and stop if it feels wrong in any way.

People who respond to their feelings rather than minimising them/blaming themselves/second guessing don't have abusive relationships, because as soon as they get the 'Hang on, this doesn't feel right' feeling, they're gone. Regardless of what kind of sex they're having or how interesting their conversations are.

I think your friend is still not listening to her feelings, which is a risk. If she was, she'd have said 'This relationship bores me; I'm better off single, and free to look elsewhere.'

She needs to stop being with Mr Vanilla, learn to be on her own side, then look for Mr Exciting. Learning to be on her own side is massively the most important part of this process.

@StormBaby

It’s called a Trauma Bond and it’s highly addictive.

Yes. I'd advise your friend to look into this.

Logically she knows she's crazy but there's a pull towards the life she has so bravely left behind

So, she's calling herself crazy for wanting an exciting relationship? She needs to respect her feelings more. She wants what she wants, and that's that. If you ask her if she wants to be abused, she'd say no, right? But she wants more excitement. That's not crazy.

Wow thank you there's some really good points and links here. I will be speaking with her again tonight no doubt so will voice the advice given here. Thank you again for the very interesting information- trauma bonding, I feel, is fitting of the situation but shall see what she says about it