Male friend perspective

[Dave2021]

Can someone help me get some perspective. My DW has a longstanding male friend, in fact she has known him longer than me. I also know him very well and have become friends. She would often do stuff with him that I didn't want to do - eg see a film etc. And then he emigrated to Australia 2 years ago. He is single and has been forever, and doing well in his job so very wealthy.

In February last year, he told her that he would pay for her to fly out to see him - she told me and said that I could come to, if I bought my own ticket. I had just been diagnosed with depression and already been to Aus. I said no I didn't want to go but she should go by herself. Later I decided I wasn't feeling great about being on my own and asked her not to go. Anyway, COVID happened and that cancelled everything anyway.

Lockdown has been tough, my marriage has been sexless for years and I'm only mid 30s so I told my DW we needed to sort it out. Its created friction, and some of her behavior has become controlling. She can spend days not talking to me, and after a lot of research I realise that she shows a lot of EA characteristics. She has admitted to me that she can be controlling and aggressive but she tries her best not to be. After a lot of convincing, she finally agreed to couples counselling - the outcome was that issue in the relationship was that I wasn't committed. So I stopped going, but my DW went for a few more sessions on her own.

She then made the revelation that in her solo sessions at the end, the counsellor had told her that I was abusive because I control her and used the example of not letting her go to see this friend as an example. I was shocked.

Anyway, I just found out that my DW has organised for a shipment of loads of stuff that he cant buy in Aus to be shipped to him. The cost of shipping is over £100. When I quizzed her on it, she said he would help pay. They message every day - maybe 20-30 times. I've never seen the messages but I'm 100% sure its not sexual. When I told my DW that I was unhappy in a sexless marriage, she said that sex wasn't important to her. She would never hook up with this guy because he is single for a reason (poor hygiene etc) - I think she just has a good connection with him.

I'm I unreasonable to be annoyed. I'm now worried about raising it, because she will use it as further evidence that I am trying to control her.

After a lot of convincing, she finally agreed to couples counselling - the outcome was that issue in the relationship was that I wasn't committed. So I stopped going,

There are two issues here; sexless marriage and her saying sex is not important to her (essentially that's not going to change). People older than you wouldn't be happy with a sexless marriage, but you're particularly young to be "accepting" a sexless marriage. That's not natural/normal/healthy.

Secondly her friendship with this guy seems a bit ott. Too much messaging.

She also appears to be lying about your relationship in counselling - saying you'd stop her visiting this male friend when you say you said you were ok with her going on her own.

She can spend days not talking to me

No sex and ignores you for days.

Sorry to be harsh but you sound convenient for her - rather than someone she really esteems, fancies etc.

What's the financial set up in your household?

Are there children involved?

Oh sorry I've missed that you changed your mind and asked her not to go to Oz on her own, so she wasn't lying to counsellor about that particular thing.

Though you didn't and presumably wouldn't have stopped her if she insisted

It does sound like she has an unusually close friendship with this person. She'll send all those messages to him but not communicate with you for days. That's not right. No wonder you feel put out.
I think she's treating you badly, and is waiting for you to make the decision to walk away, so it's not on her.

It shouldn’t be this hard, especially when you’re so young. I’d think seriously about leaving - there’s many more decent women out there.

This sounds miserable for you. What do you get out of being with her? Do you have children together?

Honestly if I were you I’d walk away. She’s too emotionally involved with this other guy to put any effort into your relationship and you’re both convinced the other is emotionally abusive.

She ignores you for days and doesn’t want sex. And yet she’s prepared to fly half way round the world to spend time with him. She’s telling you everything you need to know. Just listen.

No children. 100% I am convenient for her. I have come to realise that in the past few months. I'm not that sociable, I have few friends. Before lockdown I would spend more time at home and do the chores and she would see friends.

She doesn't fancy me, she doesn't want to have sex with me but she would never admit that. I'm desperate for a family, she says he his but then I ask her how that would happen in a sexless marriage and she just said that she hoped one day I would start having sex with her again.

My depression got worse in lockdown, my only socialising was work and that was taken away from me. She wanted to spend her Christmas with her family and left before lockdown restrictions were put in place. I was meant to go to my sister, but then I couldnt. She knew I was depressed, I literally spent ten days at Christmas on my own in a pit of despair. I couldnt cope and didnt want to ask for help. She didnt come back till after New Year. I think if she loved me, should would have wanted to be with me.

@MarkRuffaloCrumble

This sounds miserable for you. What do you get out of being with her? Do you have children together?

Honestly if I were you I’d walk away. She’s too emotionally involved with this other guy to put any effort into your relationship and you’re both convinced the other is emotionally abusive.

She ignores you for days and doesn’t want sex. And yet she’s prepared to fly half way round the world to spend time with him. She’s telling you everything you need to know. Just listen.

Totally 100% this.

From your description this sounds like a case of emotional abuse. Loving partners do not give the silent treatment for days. She expends a great deal of energy in attending to his messages; 20 messages a day is unacceptable. She's not even having sex with you. And now you're scared of raising anything more. This is no way to live your life. It's up to you but it sounds like the end of the marriage to me, sorry.

@MarshmallowAra Yes that's correct. But all i know is that she told me the counsellor told her that I was abusive..... I have a deep feeling that she made it up. I was tempted to ring up the counsellor and ask whether she did actually say that but I felt that it would have been wrong to do that.

I've told her I'm not happy and we need to discuss the possibility of separation. She told me that its 100% not what she wants. Again - if she believed I was abusive then why stay in the relationship. Our communication is cr a p... We never discuss anything other than practical things... we dont talk about sex, or emotion or pleasure.

There’s a lot of issues at play here.

The friendship might not usually be an issue but if she’s not communicating with you but is in constant communication with him, that’s a problem. Especially in a relationship where there’s no sex. At the moment, he’s faring a lot better in this than you.

At the same time, it wasn’t ok for you to drop out of couples counselling. Are you uncommitted?

Are you getting help for your depression?

Really without communication, there’s not going to be a mutual desire for sex. That’s what, if you want to save the relationship, you both need to work at.

If you are both miserable in this relationship, having children will not solve that. It’s a dreadful environment to bring children into. If she’s the same age as you and delaying motherhood, as a woman the same age who is also desperate for children, I’d be really concerned that she doesn’t actually want children and is stalling you. Any woman I know of this age that is 100 % sure she wants kids and for whatever reason isn’t getting pregnant is panicking about their biological clock. You’ve still got time, but it might mean finding a new healthier and loving relationship.

Leaving you alone at Christmas seems off too.

Is there any sign that either of you love each other? At all?

What do you think are areas YOU need to work on?

@NameChangedForThisFeb21 I agree. I think the friendship with this guy is a bit of a red herring.

I dropped out of couples counselling as I felt I was being manipulated. So for example, one issue was that I feel I do more than my share of chores. When I raised it to my wife she said that its because I am too slow at cleaning and that I take too long so its my own fault. I do most of the shopping - again when I raised that my DW said that I do it "once of twice a year".... I know I do it more often.

The counsellor said that my DW could work on her language, whilst for me, the problem is that I dont put enough into the relationship and until I start doing more and contributing more then it wont work.

I was the one that had organised the counsellor, driven it, booked all the sessions etc. After 3 months I said I didn't want to continue. I was suffering from physical illness that I think was linked to the depression and I didn't have the energy

Yes I am getting help for my depression. I've been through over a year of counselling. I'm happy to admit I'm emotionally naïve. I've worked through a lot of issue with fear of abandonment, lack of assertiveness and lack of ability to communicate my desires and why I am in fear of my wife. Its helped, I've taken a break but I think I need to have more.

She says he loves me but I don't feel it. Until a couple of months ago I really loved her and hated seeing her hurt, but I didn't fancy her. Oh and she is 39...she says she wants kids with me. She even told me this yesterday

Wow, 39 is even older than me. I thought she was around 32-35. She must know she’s playing a dangerous game if she really wants children, this strategy could quite easily leave her childless.

Anyone can say I love you. It’s how you show love that matters. And there’s all sorts of love. This doesn’t sound like normal, healthy, spousal love. More like dependency.

Did your counsellor give their opinion on your relationship? Mine outright told me that a family member was emotionally abusive, and a former partner. I didn’t know. I wonder if they have given any opinion of your wife’s behaviour...whether this is a healthy relationship for you or not?

It’s great that you’ve had long term counselling. Also good to take a break sometimes as you need to have some sort of goal or direction within counselling for it to get you anywhere.

This just sounds to much hard work and tbh shit. You are so young as well . I’d leave and find someone you are compatible with

@Dave2021 - Sorry you’re struggling with your mental health, make sure you get the help you need.
This is not a healthy relationship and i think you have become emotionally reliant on your partner because of your depression. I think you need to really have a good think about what you want to do and what your next steps are.

Good luck!

@NameChangedForThisFeb21

I asked my own private counsellor outright but she refused to comment. In fact she went as far as to say that whether it was or wasn't abusive was irrelevant. She just kept on saying that it must be very hard for me and very painful. Its one reason why I stopped after a year, as I felt maybe she wasn't that expert in relationships.

A while back now I told my DW that I felt let down that she had spend the weekend with friends when we had people coming to stay the next day and there was a lot of work to be done. She started screaming and shouting and when I tried to talk to her, she slammed the door at me. I felt like saying to the counsellor at what point does it still remain irrelevant - when she punches me? She would never be physical I know that. I'm six three and weigh 110kg and she is literally half my size.

Thanks for all the advice everyone - I agree it feels like codependency and I am going to do more reading around this.

Well op you cant have kids in this situation anyway-the marriage is unhappy and you have depression. So wake up from that pipe dream, it's doing you no favours.

And it seems she is using it to further manipulate you. Imagine how the kids would be used to manipulate you too if you had them with this woman.

It is recommended that you never attend couples therapy with an abuser because firstly, they can con the therapist and secondly, they can twist the therapists words to manipulate you. It seems like this might be the case here.

Why are you staying with her? Its clear the relationship is over. Start making moves to get out.

Please don't have children with her. The problems you are experiencing now will only intensify when DCs come along - bringing up kids is really hard at times and you need be a good team working together to get through the tough times. She's certainly not that