Dad says his relationship is abusive

[SpringtimeForShitler]

Hi, posting here as unsure how to approach this situation or what to think.

Dad has been with current partner for about a decade (siblings and I all grown up and left home long before that, not with DM for some years before that.)

His P has always objected to him spending time alone with me, and in her family it is kind of lore that she ‘can’t be by herself’ as she finds it difficult or makes her anxious or something.

She is actually a very capable person who is described by her children as a competitive person. She ran her own business for many years before meeting my DF. I suppose I find the claims about ‘not being able to spend time by herself’ questionable if I’m honest. At the very least ‘convenient’ as it is frequently used to justify him not being ‘allowed’ to spend time away from her.

I’m aware my perspective here can only possibly be subjective, however while being pleased my Dad met someone, I have found her to be manipulative and controlling.

For example, one year early on she told me she was taking him away for the weekend for his birthday, and asking me not to mention it as it was a ‘surprise’. Ok no probs. Then when I tried to arrange something nice for the preceding weekend my confused Dad asked if I wasn’t attending his birthday meal with family (organised on the ‘surprise’ birthday weekend). So I did attend but when I got there found there was a frosty atmosphere towards me from relatives who I’d not seen in years and only ever had positive relationships with. Suddenly they were being openly hostile/offhand towards me for no apparent reason. Of course I had no idea what was going on and nothing was said directly so I couldn’t really ask.

One relative who I’d always been on good terms with previously was particularly off in all subsequent interactions and we never really re-established a relationship before they died a few years later. I find this heartbreaking.

A few years after that he came down for a meal out just the two of us (in the daytime during working hours, in ‘secret’) and over dinner burst out crying as he was no longer in touch with many/any friends and was unable to socialise without her there. He had missed his Christmas meal & drinks with his work colleagues as he knew she wouldn’t like it and would give him a hard time and ‘make life unpleasant’.

From what I can gather and have seen, this ‘making life unpleasant’ takes the form of the silent treatment / sulking for days on end and guilt tripping.

When I have been at his home she has taken me aside unexpectedly and told me that sometimes he talks to her aggressively and upsets her.

She objects to us spending time together without her there, which I have found very upsetting over the years. I’ve been torn in a way – we (DF and I) had a very close relationship before so the now limited contact is only since they got together. On the one hand I’ve felt that it’s his responsibility if he chooses to pander to her demands and felt it wasn’t good enough for him to blame her (or put it down to ‘tension’ between her and me – for me it seems perfectly normal that we might spend time together so the tension really only lies with her).

More recently I have withdrawn from the relationship with my DF somewhat for various reasons but mostly related to frequent let downs which I find it upsetting and hurtful. We had a frank conversation a few months back where we discussed how this had all damaged our relationship. He has let us down on many occasions over the years which he blames on her. Not long before this conversation in the autumn (just pre-covid) his ‘D’P had actually gone on holiday for 10 days to an exotic location with her son (son and his GF broke up and he couldn’t cancel the trip so she went with him). This contrast with the limitations placed on my DF was so stark and he agreed it was all ridiculous and he would establish stronger boundaries.

There is no way she would sacrifice any aspect of her relationship with her kids for my DF (not that he’d want her to) and of course she spends time with each of them without him there frequently.

This week I expressed disappointment and hurt as he said he would not be able to see us for upcoming event (won’t be too specific on details here) due to Covid risk. Yet his P posted on social media that they had spent a busy weekend this February helping one of her children and DP move house. I pointed this out and he has told me she is “abusive” and will “make his life unpleasant” if he arranges anything with us.

I don’t know what to do. From my own perspective I have found the emotional burden created by this person’s behaviour over the years a real source of anguish and had started to feel that if DF really wanted us to have a relationship he would. At times I have reduced contact accordingly to save having to deal with the upset and with manipulative, spiteful behaviour (have detailed just a couple of examples here from many) and for the sake of self-preservation. But if DF feels he is stuck in an abusive situation, what should I do? I’ve been troubled by her behaviour for years but on the other hand have seen my DF in some ways happier and enjoying life more than when he was single, and felt it was his choice who he has a relationship with. Combined with concern for my DF is deep hurt on my side (although I know it’s not all about me) and the need to draw clear boundaries about what is acceptable, for the sake of my own mental health and well-being (particularly having grown up in a household and wider family with massive violations of boundaries and lots of dysfunctional behaviour).

Some years ago I made the decision not to spend time with his P as far as possible, and life has been less ‘toxic’ since.

I don’t even know what I can do if anything to support my DF.

What should I do? What do I do with this information? Feeling quite fragile after a fraught conversation with DF and unsure what, if anything, I should do or say or how I should approach things.

The main question would be whether he's happy to continue as he is or does he want to leave? If he's happy to continue then there isn't much you can do other than try protect yourself from the emotional burden of it, if he does want to leave then you can support him with that if he needs it and you're able to.

@FoxyTheFox

I think he’s probably conflicted and I can only suppose that if he did want to leave it would probably like a difficult thing to do. He has stopped seeing friends over the years and she is involved in every aspect of his life. There are probably some very good aspects to their relationship too.

He has always acknowledged she’s controlling and has at times over the years mentioned the possibility of leaving.

I’ve always felt it is his business and not for me to comment on but him telling me it is an abusive relationship feels like a pretty clear admission that things are not right.

It’s difficult isn’t it – this is part of the issue I guess, if someone won’t let you spend time without them when do you ever get the chance to check in with yourself and feel strong enough to think about any alternative.

Yep she’s isolating him. She’s attempting to cut anyone out who he might actually confide in, this threatening her position. My advice is as much as it hurts, he’s an adult, be there for him when he wakes up from the trance, until then I would save your own sanity and leave them to it. That may sound selfish but I’m not sure there’s much else you can do.

Bump – this has just been moved to relationships from another board

I'm confused as to what happened with your relationships that went wrong with other family?

@Nanny0gg in what way?

If the event is your wedding the thread is over here...

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4177035-Uninvited-to-family-wedding?pg=1

Hi @MrMahoneysPants no it’s not a wedding

@MrMahoneysPants I’ve just taken a glance at the other thread, was your comment supposed to be funny? A bit that you’ve posted that.

@Nanny0gg

The family member I mentioned who died was an older relative who had always lived in a different part of the country while we were growing up, so we’d see them for short visits and on holidays.

As an adult we would chat on Skype and they’d always encouraged me to go and visit, and said I would be welcome to take a friend to stay too. So we’d been sort of planning to do that at some point.

Had always been a very uncomplicated relationship and as I got older (and also moved back to the UK from abroad) I’d been hoping to build stronger ties.

In the year before the birthday meal we’d probably chatted on Skype a couple of times – nothing much, just friendly catching up, saying hello.

At the birthday meal mentioned in the OP my relatives who were there were not very warm or effusive when I arrived – you know hello, how are you, what have you been up to? – it was a weirdly subdued greeting, and ‘reading the room’, it felt like the P had been talking about me before I arrived (can’t be certain obviously but you can sense a dynamic – everyone sort of shifted uneasily and she shot them a knowing look as I walked in). I felt on the back foot but didn’t know why.

That particular older relative was actually quite hostile towards me that day – they made some rude remarks about “what was that, I can’t hear your silly voice” and rude comments about my new job. We had never had a cross word before in my life. It was all really weird.

Over the following years they were always openly rude to me when I encountered them. There had never been any conflict or argument. Eventually they died and that was that.

@SpringtimeForShitler

Your father is defiantly in extremly emotionally abusive relantship.

She sounds endless emotionally needy/demanding and very manipulative woman.

I wouldn't susprise me if she has undiagnoided personality disorder going on in the mix too.

Read up about common personality disorders on the internet ,to see if you recognize her
behaviour in any way.

There is help/support out there for men who want out of this kind of situation op.

Even formerly called woman's Aid it now called Threshold charity in wales uk

Even they recognise Domestic abuse can happen to men too.

What you need to ask yourself and your father needs to explore reflect on this is what is it about his earlier childhood experinces that unconsciously acctract him to this toxic co dependency type of relantship ?

Did your father experience a similar type of childhood dynamic such as his mother was overbearing demanding and his father was i will do anything for a peaceful life kind of guy then etc?

I think your father needs to look into having some therapy to explore how he is ended up this kind of abusive relantship otherwise he will repeat the same/or similar pattern with another woman/in next relantships .

The best thing is letting him know you'll always be there if he wants help to leave the relationship.

You can try and let him know that life is too short to miss out on quality relationships with family and that someone who truly loved him wouldn't get in the way of that.

Here's a link to some organisations that could be useful.

www.itv.com/thismorning/articles/domestic-violence-men-helplines

Thank you @thosetalesofunexpected

I think your comment is very insightful – my Dad did have a difficult relationship with his DM, although I don’t know much about the ins and outs.

His relationship with our DM was also dysfunctional – she had difficulties with mental illness and could be a very difficult person to live with. It is not all black and white but she could be very verbally and emotionally abusive and her issues dominated our childhood. She always seem to crave freedom if anything but was certainly needy. I think it could be fair to say that he functioned as a bit of an enabler at times. He is a very organised, reliable, self-disciplined sort of person, in contrast to my DM, and kept everything going on a practical level. She always seemed to resent him and would openly belittle him to us kids. I felt like I never really got to know who he is as a person until after she died.

I have felt sorry for my Dad to be honest, for exactly the reasons you mention. I know he feels isolated and I imagine he feels being in this relationship is better than the alternative of being by himself. They do also in some ways enjoy a nice lifestyle – walks and drinks in the evening, frequent holidays, etc. She is quite driven and certain about what she wants in life and outwardly they would appear to be a happy older couple enjoying their freedom.

I will also look into personality disorders. I wouldn’t be surprised either. She is so incredibly calculating in a way that I’ve never really encountered in anyone else.

Thank you @SandyY2K

@SpringtimeForShitler

Domestic abuse support for men in uk are mensadviceline.org.uk

www.mankind.org.uk

www.mensAid.co.uk

Thanks @thosetalesofunexpected

It seems to me that your dad has fallen for the same type of woman twice now.

He really needs your help to break free and get away from her. She is doing her utmost to divide and conquer your family. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she hasn't, at some point, coerced him into making her the sole beneficiary of his will. She's a nasty piece of work.

@SpringtimeForShitler

Also CBT (cognitive Behavioural therapy could be beneficial for your father
Its free on NHS
Its therapy that helps someone manage their issues in a more effective ways to feel more empowered.

Look up internet about this op

Also look into counselling or and other therapies that be beneficial for him on the internet.

Good counselling will help your father explore his dysfunctional childhood experiences etc, in a safe envoriment .

He needs to see a counselling therapist who specialize in childhood negative experiences such as childhood trauma of different kinds .

@SpringtimeForShitler

Good counselling will help towards recognising how difficult negative experiences have created impact on his life creating a toxic dynamic of repeating same/similar relantship patterns in the present and therefore once he recognized this is happening it will healing process of the hurt inner child hood unresolved issues,
As he will feel by talking about this and being listened in a respectful way he will feel validated for having those kinds of feelings and will gain insight clarity and be liberated and start feeling liberated from his past, instead of feeling unconsciously in bondage to a very shitty child hood experinces.

this is why its so hard to get out of abusive relantships even when someone recognize this, as its so tangled up with unresolved powerful child hood dynamics .

@SpringtimeForShitler

Men's shed charity uk

Is a good charity for men to learn new wood craft skills such as making various things such as park benches and other stuff in a relaxed informal envoriment its quite popular for men of all ages and abilities.

Just thinking if he is into Diy or fancies learning a new skill.

More infor on the internet about this op.
I know its bit of quiky random thing to come out with in regard of your post thread theme.

@endlesswicker

Thank you for your comment. The divide and conquer bit is absolutely spot on. From what I’ve seen she cosies up to people individually and whispers about other people ‘confidentially’. My DSis (with different DF so less involved) has observed that she’s continually recruiting allies in some imaginary war she’s involved in somewhere. I’ve seen her try and gain my sympathy (and we’re not close at all) wrt her relationship with my DF, by ‘confiding’ in me about difficulties (with her as victim) while my DF is out of earshot.

It all makes me so angry – it seems just sticking to your own values and not getting drawn in just doesn’t cut it as a response – either you have to start thinking in the same sneaky way and be worn down by it or just withdraw completely.

He has actually never married her for this reason – he knows that would see her and her kids as the beneficiaries of his estate. I’ve never asked him about any of that sort of stuff but a few years ago he did take me aside and tell me that he’d seen someone to get his will updated and make sure everything would go to me and siblings. So he knows what she’s like. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if she still tried to do this in future.

I’m more bothered about what happens when he’s alive to be honest – life is so short and I can just see the years slipping away and that was that, we never really spent time together again. It’s what happened with the family member mentioned upthread – they died and that was the end of that, that‘s how that story will always be.

I feel so sad and angry about it all if I think about it too much so need to kind of work out a way to approach it mentally so I can be supportive to him rather than thinking emotionally from my own perspective iyswim. It feels positive in a way that he’s acknowledged that she’s abusive and for me easier to organise it all in my own mind and put my own upset aside.

I agree she is a very nasty piece of work.

Thank you @thosetalesofunexpected I will look into those things. I think counselling for him would be a great idea although not sure I would mention the childhood angle to him directly. But could perhaps nudge him in the direction of talking to someone.

The woodcraft stuff does actually sound like something he might be into, I know he has been looking at outdoor volunteering opportunities so could be something he’s interested in. Thanks for sharing.

OP my mum was abusive to me throughout my childhood and also controlling to my Dad . At the age of 15 I asked my Dad why he was with her . He told me he was used to it by now. I grew up and stayed LC for years , it would have been NC but for the fact that I wanted to see Dad. I never again asked him if he was OK - I feel very guilty now , I saved myself but can’t help thinking I should have done more to help him . She died last year and in his early 80s he is free for the first time in 50 years. If you can help and support your Dad , do , don’t have regrets like me

Thank you @Robintakeover I’m so sorry to hear about the situation with your mum and dad. That must have been so sad and difficult to hear at 15, and I really empathise with the difficulty you describe of worrying about your Dad but needing to act in the interests of self-preservation too. I’m sure your Dad knew all those years you were thinking of him and cared. I hope you and he get to enjoy some time together and look after each other now your mum’s passed.

I loved my mum but it was a relief when she died and it allowed us all to heal a bit – and for my dad to find a different life. His life is at least happier and less turbulent now than it was back then, and it is nice to see him enjoy life more in some ways.

I’m really grateful for your comment as in recent years I have distanced myself more and more, simply as I have found being involved so hurtful and destructive in my own life – both her behaviour and the fact he hasn’t seemed to have stuck up for our relationship more. This is my fear, that at some point it will all be too late and it will just be a sad tale that’s too late to change.