How can I help my depressed DH?

[lulupop]

Sorry posted before without a title!

Last night DH totally shocked me. After being absolutely miserable working at a company where he hated the people and felt he'd never get on, he finally got a new job a few weeks ago. This new job is in a place he likes, with one of his friends as his new boss, and the whole set-up seems much better for him. He seemed so happy to have got this new job. Since he started it, his attitude to lots of things has changed and he's seemed back to his old self, which is a relief after over a year of a difficult time, with him seeming very low a lot of the time.

However, I know he worries a lot about money. So do I. He earns a high salary but we have a big mortgage having been caught out of the housing market during the boom years, and now he wants DS and DD to go to prep school So do I, TBH, but at the same time I think it's more important to have a happy family life first, and we can't do that if we're forever worrying about finding the fees. I am SAHM, and even if I did get a job, there is no job I cld get locally that wld pay me enough to even cover childcare, never mind school fees.

Yesterday he rang me and asked me to pick up a prescription for him from the doctor. I got it and it's for Prozac. He has taken this before but never sticks to it for more than a month, after whihc he "feels better" and stops taking it. And surprise surprise, then he gets depressed again. I was really shocked that he had arranged to get these pills without even talking to me about how he was feeling. I don't mind him taking them at all, but I'd thought things were really looking up, when all the time he's been feeling worse and worse. I think the last straw was going to view a prep school last week (at his request). It was fantastic but the fees are astronomical. I think he feels he'd always expected to give his children the best and now realises maybe he can't afford it.

Sorry am going on a bit but last night in bed he told me he feels he has no enjoyment in his life - that he loves me, loves the children, but he comes home and looks at us and all he can think of is what a failure he is. If he lost his job the house wld be repossessed, he might not have many more years in his job and then what will he do... he'd always thought he cld give his family everything and now realises it might be out of his reach forever...

He works in a highly specialised job in which no one seems to work beyond 50 and it is true that it's very hard to imagine what he'll do if he loses his job. He was out of work once before for a year and it was horrendous - he was on the point of taking a job in HMV to cover the bills just when he was offered something else at last.

I think he is having some kind of midlife crisis. I totally understand the huge pressure men must feel to provide for their families, but I was gobsmacked last night. I told him if the worst came to the worse, we cld sell the house, downsize, etc etc, but he just said he knows that but it doesn't change how he feels.

What can I do? I feel like nothing I do or say can help to lift him out of this gloom. Even though he knows he has so much to be happy about - nice house, 2 lovely kids, happy family - it's as if he sees it as all incredibly unstabe and dependent on his paying for it. I just want to help him, as it's starting to affect his work as well, but I can't even think of where to start. Any advice (if you're still with me!)

first off, lots of sympathy lulupop it sounds horrible and you must feel very sorry for him. If I were you I would seriously stop thinking about prep school. Can you not make the decision yourself and say that you dont want them to go - how old are they and what are your local schools like?

Also would it be possible for you to get a part time job to help out/take some of the pressure off? Although I know thats hard with two kids.

Hope you get lots of good advice here. hope you dont mind me posting.

has he got any close guys he can confide in? sounds like it could help if he saw things in perspective a bit more ie - like you said, if worst happened could downsize etc, but could help to hear it from someone else as well as you?
Also, maybe he should look at something longer term than using prozac as a quick fix for his depression- eg be referred to a counsellor (via GP or also Relate). Sorry can't be more help though.

lulupop - is it really important that your children go to prep school? Are state schools really bad where you are? I was just thinking about taking the pressure off somewhere. If, for example, you said 'You know darling, I've been hearing good things about X school and I think we should consider having a look round there?'
Is that a possibility?

Hi lulupop. My dh went through something similar a few months ago. He also has a high-powered city job and is our provider. He because withdrawn, secretive, short-tempered and stressed. He couldn't sleep and would get up in the middle of the night and drink wine.

After one particularly bad day I marched him to the doctor's and he was signed off work for two weeks, which stretched into two months. He also took himself to a psychotherapist where he discovered under the surface a whole lot of hurt rising from his relationship with his parents which had heightened recently to a point where he could no longer use his usual coping mechanism of pushing it all down and applying a selective memory!

The break from work helped enormously in the following ways:

It gave him time to rest.
He had time to think about everything that was upsetting him.
He had time to re-prioritise our everyday life.
It gave him some much-needed family time.
It gave his work a chance to find out what office life was like without him - they restructured his job to make it less ridiculously stressful.

Our relationship has become much closer as his therapy has helped him learn new levels of intimacy. We now know that if he had to leave his job we would find ways of managing. Now he has been back at work for 10 weeks and is doing fine, but is continuing with the therapy, which we expect to take about a year.

He now doesn't fret so much about work. It is only a job after all. The money is wonderful to have but family health and harmony are more important.

Likewise I am sure your kids will benefit far more from having a healthy and happy father than what they might get out of a prep school.

I hope you can persuade him to seek help before he has a breakdown.

'he became' not 'because'!!

Hi lulupop - so sorry to hear about your difficult time. I am not an expert but it sounds as though you have tried everything you can to bring your dh out of his depression so there is probably very little else that you can say to him right now. I think the best that you can do is to continue to be supportive - he has obviously spoken to the GP and hopefully once the Prozac kicks in he may be more receptive to your positive thoughts. It can be difficult to get someone to see things clearly and logically when they are depressed. I think,as you say, it can be very difficult for men as they do very often feel that they are under pressure to provide their families with the best of everything. I think he needs to be reassured that the important thing for you and the children is that you are all together and all the other stuff - house, private school etc is really not that important in the great scheme of things. He has to know that the most important thing he can give his family is not material, but is his love and support. Has he considered counselling? If the worst did happen and he lost his job, would it be an option for him to become SAHD and for you to work? I have probably not said anything that you don't already know but you have the support of the mumsnetters.

I think you are describing how many men feel in the same situation - including my husband. It is well understood about the things that affect women when babies and children come along, but men are often still in that realm of "that's life, deal with it" and I applaud him for at least taking that step of talking to the docs about it. Many men don't even go to the docs if their head was falling off.

Not much practical advice really, other than he probably needs to understand that ADs are worth taking for the longer term if they help - too many people bounce around on and off them, because if they do feel better able to cope taking them, they don't attribute it to ADs but to their sudden new found ability to cope! It's a viscious cycle. As with all people - it's still taboo (for some reason) to be prescribed them in the first place. We all need to get over this and be supportive of that solution.

I wonder (if anyone knows) if there are any support groups for men in this situation?

Unfortunately, I think that even the offer of selling up etc for a man, who measures his success by being able to provide (and why not?) would feel like a failure if it came to that.

Perhaps, as a practical step - you both should visit a really good financial adviser who could look at everything to do with the household and bills and eventualities and help you rejig expenses, mortgages, and come up with a policy which would cover you (the house) in the event he is no longer able to do his job, or is made redundant etc... Sometimes we have to have practical solutions for the problems which cause emotional upheaval.

Anyway - I'm rambling now. Hope you get thru it all x

Thanks everyone. Of course prepr school is not the be all and end all - in fact we have quite a good state primary. I am perfectly happy for them to go there although of course we'd both prefer the class numbers a private school affords - but I think in life you cut your cloth to suit your purse. My parents put us through private school but they had not much choice about it and made huge sacrifices to do it. I think what DH struggles with is not the choice itself, but the notion that the choice might be dictated to him. He works in the City, he's 41, and all his friends as far as I can see are millionaires several times over, live in vast houses (mortgages paid off years ago), and have about 4 kids all in private school. DH claims he doesn't compare himself to others but I thinl that's very disingenuous as of course he must. It is random chance that he hasn't made loads of money as well as he's always been good at his job but spent years abroad where bonuses weren't large (but lifestyle great ). Back then, he had no responsibilities and made a lot of money for his employers. Ever since we've had children, he's been working at places where he could get a big bonus but hasn;t had good years. It's as if the sense of responsibility inhibits his ability to do his job. He's as good as told me so himself.

Now I don't personally care that much about having tonnes of money - don't get me wrong, it would be very nice - but I'd much rather have a happy DH, happy home, and run-of-the-mill but happy lifestyle. The problem is that DH says he feels the same, but deep down I KNOW he measures his success as a man by how much money he's bringing home. He won't admit that though, so it's impossible to talk about it. In the past he has spent as though he were a single man - blowing a grand on a painting he liked and a grand on some Bordeaux (which I don't even drink!), just because "I work hard, never spend any money on myself, and I wanted it". But we were overdrawn at the time and had just discussed where we were going to find DS's nursery fees! When I remind him about this he just goes into a temper.

I can't really talk about the true issues with him as he hasn;t got to the point yet where he's ready to really confront his deep emotions. He has no relationship with any of his family (another story), and although I think they're all vile, it's still clear to me that he's got a lot of unresolved emotions about them and his childhood that need to be worked through.

We have had counselling together with Relate in the past but when we got to the stage where the counsellor suggested he could benefit from going alone, he just stopped going. What can I do? I can't force him, but it's so obvious he NEEDS to talk to a pyschotherapist or something.

To answer your questions, I can't really get a job as DS is only just approaching his 3rd birthday and DD is 6 months. Any job I cld get wouldn't cover the cost of their childcare (I've looked into it) and we have no family nearby. I have told DH I'm not bothered about prep school, but the pressure is coming from him. It's as though this single issue is the last straw making him feel he's failed us.

I just don't know what to say or do to make this dear sweet man realise that life is about more than material gain and that we can manage. Especially since it's easy to say that, but actually, if he DID lose his job, we would actually be really shafted.

Anorak, lol at your DH getting up in dead of night and drinking wine alone - sorry, I know it's actually not funny as he has clearly gone through a very tough time, but I read it and thought "I feel like getting up and necking some wine myself at the moment!"

So pleased to hear that things have improved for him (and for you all). How did you get him to see a psychotherapist?

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That's just it, he bottles it all up and insists it's all fine, until suddenly it gets too much and we have a crisis on our hands. I can't stand the cycle of emotional boom and bust we seem to be stuck in, but can't make him see he needs to break out of it.

Your smallholding lifestyle sounds fab. A lot of hard work, no doubt, but hopefully a much richer family life for you. Have just watched River Cottage actually, very inspiring. When are you moving?

lulupop - probably the best way forward for your hubby is to see a counsellor. But, if he is not happy about doing that, I would suggest that you give him the following book to read. It is entitled 'Good Mood - The New Psychology of Overcoming Depression' and the ISBN no. is 0-8126-9098-2. You can get it on Amazon, I think it is hard to come by in the shops.

It is a fabulous book - shows how negative thinking causes depression and give clear instruction on how to combat those negative thoughts using CBT. In nearly every case, depression is caused by someones view of themself (however inaccurate) being much lower than how they think they should be, combined with feeling helpless to do anything about it. The book will help him to review his thought patterns and actually go about changing them using a variety of strategies. It really does work, and if he is a reader he will enjoy it as it is very well written, by a doctor who suffered extreme depression most of his life and recovered. You are doing everything else you can for him that you can - being understanding, supportive and giving him a chance to talk. I really think CBT would be very good for him. xxx

lulupop we go through this on a regular basis. If it's any help to your dh, I should think that most people would lose their houses if they lost their jobs IYKWIM!

I am in the process of trying to get my dh to give up his job and do some bits and pieces for a while to make ends meet while he enjoys his life. He always said he didn't want to do law forever, I have worked out that if he does a bit of writing, a bit of dogwalking etc then he can cover half the mortgage plus we won't need a nanny and he can then decide what he wants to do, some things eg retrain to be a doctor sort of appeal to him but I think he can't see the wood for the trees IYKWIM.

Is there any way your dh could have a break? I really think this would crystallise his feelings and make him think about what he really wants from life. We too have lots of v rich friends to whom it all seems to come effortlessly, however we have plenty who are not so rich or even pretty penniless and I know some of them feel that about us, so I do think that outward appearances are necessarily indicative of what is really going on!

I do think that men get like this around this age, the mid life crisis is a reality.

thanks miam and CD. That book sounds ideal for DH Miam, as I'd been thinking perhaps CBT was a more "practical" way for him to work through this than "just sitting round talking about myself" (as he says). I will get it on Amazon.

You're right, CD, outward appearance is just that. DH has plenty of rich and professionally successful mates who are going through painful divorces, and all sorts. Unfortunately having a break doesn't seem to help him much - when not working he just frets about money even more.

Off downstairs to try to talk about it all with him a bit more now... drum some sense into the silly sod, hopefully

have just been reading through your thread and wanted to say my dp feels exactly the same, depresed, bored when he wakes up, feels he has nothing to look forward to and constantly dwells on things we should have done but didnt. he was offered voluntary redundancy in may and took it after 17 years with same company to have a break and spend some time with me and dd, but this didnt work out quite to plan!
we argue a lot, he doesnt 'handle' dd any better and i still do 'everything' for her...i desperatly need help, but i dont feel i can put anything on him as he seems to fragile. i wish i could help him, but im in such a mess myself i dont know what to do.
read the post about that book, so will look into that, but just to say, i know how you feel.

Oh Evesmama, sorry to hear you're in the same sort of situation. It;s so hard, isn't it? I have to admit when DH came out with all this, my private reaction was to think "Great, apparently nothing I do will make a difference to how you feel, and now I have one more thing to worry about"!

Not the response I would have hoped for in myself but I worry about all the job/money/schooling/house stuff as well, and at the moment feel like I can't express my concernc to DH as it might tip him over the edge, like your DH. Mine is always talking about how mentally tough he is, which is a bit of a joke actually as he's clearly extremely delicate at the moment! I could deal with all this so much better if only he would be honest with me about his feelings and not argue the toss over the detail all the time. Last night we nearly had a row about whether we shld be spending money on a chargecard or switch. I prefer switch as then I can go to the ATM and instantly see what the situation is, whereas he uses a chargecard, which then takes all the month's expenses out in one go at the end of the month. I told him I find this hard as one day I check the balance and see it;s OK so go and buy something, and then suddenly next day £500 disappears for his chargecard! For some reason he simply won't come round to my POV, even though I'M the one that needs to have a day to day grip on the money situation!

Sorry, that's so banal, but just illustrates how even when I try to do things to make our siuation more manageable, he won't join in. Grrr.

Eves - sorry to hear about your situation too. I hope you do manage to find the book, it is very helpful.

Lulu, one of the factors in depression is that the depressed person is generally the very last to recognise that they are depressed, and it takes a heck of a long time after that to admit it to others. I dont know why that is, but it seems to be the same for most depressives, so he is not alone in that. I think it is because we feel that somehow the depression makes us a failure, and we are ashamed to be known as 'less than normal'. Perhaps the book will help him to see that he is not alone in this, and that talking about it is one of the best therapies there is. It may be though, it will take him a little longer to get to there, but hopefully for you, it will be sooner rather than later. Really feel for you xxx

You could try Cognitive-Behavioural Therapy methods to try and get your husband to realise his thoughts and emotions. It is possible to get CBT via the NHS, but the waiting list is very long. You could go private, but expect to pay between £40 - £60 an hour, usually weekly.

Perhaps your husband is seeking validation as a person by purchasing expensive, unwanted items. If that is the case, he is certainly experiencing a great deal of emotional vulnerability, which is underlying his assumptions of how he should be, rather than how he is. Therefore, in seeking approval from everyone, your husband is more prone to depression.

Sometimes it's not until you are thrown headlong into situations that you realise you can cope. I always thought that stability of income was vital: before we had kids my husband was self employed as a graphic designer for 9 years before everything went pear-shaped and he changed careers, then I went self employed about 2 years before my first son was born. Since then both our working lives have been like rollercoasters - I can work from home and manage to do what I can part-time with the help of a good day nursery 2 days a week, but when child no 2 came along earlier this year it just became even more expensive! (Thank goodness no 1 starts school in Jan). Until early 2003 things seemed to be fine, my husband had a pretty good job but still hankered after self employment again, so we took the decision that he'd start up his own business, which he did in June. One week after that, his mum was diagnosed with incurable lung cancer, and 2 weeks after that, we found out I was pregnant again. Then followed a nightmare 6 months (his mum passed away in Oct 03), because of the stress and pressure of looking after her he had earned no money at all for 6 months, my workflow dried up for a couple of months, I had an unexpected tax bill, we sold what few shares we had, cashed in ISAs and PEPs to raise a few thousand to keep us going, extended our overdraft..... then had another baby! Hubby has since put the business on ice and has 2 jobs which haven't lasted through no fault of his own, and I really don't know when we will be able to 'get out of the woods' financially and actually feel we are making progress.

My husband is prone to depression and this did push him close to the brink. He's been on anti-depressants for a year now which DO help, although like many men he was embarassed to have to admit he needed them. I know he sometimes feels like he's let us down, especially when he compares himself with friends who earn a fortune and drive flashy cars, whose wives 'don't have to' work, and I know he feels we 'should' be at a different place in our lives at our age (early-mid 40's). It's hard for anything I say to make a difference in this regard, but we are learning to say 'sod it'!

I know this sounds like a long whinge or rant, but what I am trying to say is that when you go through such stormy weather personally, professionally and financially, all you have to hold you together is your family! We take such pleasure from the fact that we have 2 happy, healthy boys. The tragic loss of my mother in law makes me appreciate my (ageing!) parents even more and I try and make sure they spend as much time with the boys as possible - my folks had to wait a long time for grandchildren! Our bank account is always in the red but we don't go without - we eat well and have good friends and enjoy going to Cornwall for our holidays, rather than some expensive foreign break. Like you Lulupop I can remember when we could stash money away every month and buy paintings and expensive wine etc, and it was great, but that was BC (before children!)

I feel so angry that society puts such pressure on men to 'provide' - perhaps the next generation will find it easier to say 'I can't do it, I need time out'. If we constantly compare ourselves to other people, instead of looking at what we have ourselves, we're never going to be happy - there'll always be someone better off than us!

All I can say Lulupop (as if I haven't said enough), is that the best you and your husband can do for your kids is to be happy and be there for them. Prep schools, expensive toys etc are so secondary. I know you can see this, I just hope you manage to persuade DH!

what u can do is to reiterate how much you care abt him and your happy family. do an option algorith with him: consider all the worst case scenarios and what ifs?
also ask how bad he's feeling. men can have quite low mood, sometimes feeling hopeless and worthless and not feel able to tell their nearest and dearest. make him tell you how bad the depression is, and tell him he's not in it alone. bring out the positives of every scenario, including job change, or even moving away from such a peer pressured place.
let it become your mantra to him, you are with him in it all, and u are happy with him. repeat ad infinitum if necessary.
things will get better, as the wise say, even this will pass.
most of us out here are regular joes, and have to contend with an almost permanent overdraft, and other debts. what gets u thru is your loved ones. the things we look back on in later life are the times we spent with our loved ones, and not what expensive designer gear and houses and cars we had. beleive me, in a trade off, money comes second to happiness all the time.

lulupop

In my life BC I was a career counsellor amongst other things (!), and something I found useful was to ask people who felt stuck in a rut to write their retirement speech. Imagine they're at the end of their career - looking back on their life, what do they want to be remembered for, what were the milestones they don't want to forget etc.

What is interesting is that whilst most people will include work stuff (eg key achievements they're most proud of), it tends to be the family / home life stuff that features most prominently. I used to find it an excellent way of getting people to work out their personal priorities and to perhaps identify areas that they would like to be remembered for that they haven't yet tackled.

Not knowing your DH's precise mental state at the moment, this may not be the time to do this, but it could be something to bear in mind once he reaches a more 'level' place.

I would agree with the earlier post that it might be a good idea to get him to take some time off. Could he be signed off work with stress, or would this be losing face with colleagues? Most employers these days have to be careful not to place employees under undue stress, and should accommodate requests for a few weeks off in confidence. After all, he's better off to them fit and well isn't he? It may be difficult for him to accept the need to do this as it may be tantamount to saying (in his mind) that he's dispensible - perhaps work will find someone else in his absence (they can't do this legally I'm sure, but he may fear it). The company has to deal with this properly though and he may find them surprisingly sympathetic.

Good luck and hang on in there - it may feel impossible, but you're doing the best thing you can by being extra supportive - like a child he'll be testing the bounds of your committment to him, and will need to know you're there for him. As the previous post said, repeat ad infinitum if necessary.

Slight tangent: Utka, how to you become a career counsellor? My DH is a recruitment consultant at the mo, but think this would be a great thing for him to do. He's not a graduate but has REC qualifications.... any advice gratefully received!

My situation is very different to all yours' here but there are parallels. I'm a single parent and my exp stopped paying any maintenance 3.5 years ago. I only worked 2 days per week so we had to manage on a significantly lower income but we managed and we didn't lose the house. It became a challenge to try and manage my new budget.

Now my dds are both at school and I have doubled my hours and hopefully will ease my financial worries.

A few months ago my job was under threat though and I remember thinking that I did sypathise with the bread-earning men because it very stressful when you are the only one supporting your family.

Good luck to all of you in thsi situation though - must be a nightmare for you. Makes me almost glad to live alone (well apart from dds!).

Lulupop I really sympathise with your DH. I'm the breadwinner in our household and we now have three children. I work for a large firm in the City and most of the lawyers my age are now partners and are earning megabucks. I took a sideways step away from doing transactional work, in part so that I could work child-friendly hours - entirely my own choice of course, but I do earn an awful lot less money than I once thought I would. This year for the first time ever I didn't get a payrise and it's really hit home that I will almost certainly never earn any more than I do now - and sometimes I really don't feel like I'm doing enough to provide for my family. No advice at all, but just lots of sympathy.

lulupop, I haven't got time to read everything in this thread but I've read your posts and we are in almost exactly the same position.

We completely missed out on the housing boom. Dh earns a good salary but all his mates earn an absolute killing and managed to cash in on the housing market so are living in 5/6 bedroom houses in nice parts of London with holiday homes, wives who don't have to work and plenty of kids all in private school. We have a tiny house and no garden and I have to go back to work next year otherwise we won't be able to pay the bills. I think dh feels absolutely horrendous because of this. We are very very happy though and not the sort of people who crave money but it is difficult when we are invited around to their houses all the time for dinner etc and when they come here, we haven't even got a room big enough where they can fit round the table!!

My dh has a very important job and people often cannot believe that we just do not have the money to go on holidays/buy new suits for work. For example, one of his best friends asked us to come and stay with him on holiday for a week in Jan. I thought this would be a great idea (thinking no accommodation costs) but when I realised how much the flights were, I had to say no because there's no way we could afford it. I heard dh say this to his mate but saying that 'the wife says we can't afford it' - i.e. it's nothing to do with him....his friends just don't seem to believe that we cannot even afford that amount.

I don't think my dh is depressed yet but I don't think he's far off. Interstingly, he's 41 and I do think it has something to do with the 'we've got to 40 and what have we achieved' type attitude. It's not that he's unhappy, as I've said, we have a happy, healthy family - I just think men face a whole different set of pressures at work and one of them is the whole 'pride' thing - especially when they are in a social set where the other families have so much more.

I think all you can do is emphasise the positive - you can get involved with the state school - that way, you'll find you'll all get so much more out of it and once your kids are at school, you can always become a learning assistant to earn a few more pounds. I think the best approach is to be ultra-supportive and I agree, he may need some time off to 'assess' where he is.

Let us know what happens and I have great sympathy with you both and the position you find yourself in.xxx