partner has no work ethic - advice welcome

[peeekaboo]

Essentially, my partner is great, but he has no work ethic. It has lead us to some interesting discussions, as obviously when you say someone has no work ethic the immediate response is 'loser' lol. He is however very intelligent (two first class degrees from university), but seems to have problems translating that into a 9-5 type job. He has ADHD, recently diagnosed as an adult.

He has talked at length about his feelings about work, that despite what job it is simply having to be somewhere he doesn't want to be & working makes him miserable no matter what it is, and that he also feels a lot of imposter syndrome / anxiety where he constantly feels uncomfortable and that he is constantly fucking up.

Anyway it has led us to some interesting debates in the context of whether working your entire life is actually normal and it's making me question when enough is enough and how I view society I guess. My partner has done well, owns two houses and has a good retirement fund set aside. Im not sure where all his money came from, perhaps inheritance.

Its a bit insane to me because I think he could probably be more wealthy by now if he actually just put more effort in, but he's just so happy with what he has and its making my brain malfunction a bit lol

If someone is comfortable enough, but has no work ethic, would you think less of them? He is certainly passionate about many things, just not work!

He does have a work ethic, by the sounds of it. It's just not a work ethic you share. Let him be.

I didnt know what was wrong with me for years, I felt an impending sense of doom and lump in my throat every single moment at work and worshipped home time then I got finally diagnosed with ADHD. I've just felt so jealous of how casual people can be about going in to work, how it isnt playing on their minds from the minute they get home, even in low pressure jobs with friends. The only solution was self employment where i discovered actually I have a decent work ethic and self discipline, earned a decent waged and did an open university degree alongside it.

If you want to stay with him and work on this, I can only advise that you have to build up his own sort of work with him.

I think if he still has the drive to do something positive and has ambition, that's fine. If he's lying around in bed wasting the day then no.

He sounds very similar to my child with adhd. The key is finding the things that he is passionate about and work needs to be in that area. Even if he's volunteering or doing ad hoc tutoring, it's still work of a sort and he doesn't need the income. He's just stepping out of the rat race as he can't or chooses not to be in it.

I have adhd. It might be an idea to read up on how it affects things like executive function. It has lots of other effects and mapping out strengths & weaknesses is useful. Lots of shame and generally adhd doesn't travel alone, so depression, asd, ocd, sensory issues, all sorts of things. If he's accessed medication, he's doing his best to mitigate the symptoms.

Adhd can be very problematic in relationships, as life admin avoidance & seeking stimulating situations can end badly.

I worked out any adhd article where the writer uses the word "Just..." is not a person with adhd. 😊

@user1471565182 @wibblewombat exactly...
Your DP sounds like me also with adult ADHD (among other things). First from a very reputable uni and stellar results all through school. But it takes me half an hour to lock my focus into a new task. Easy when you have the whole school/uni year to study for exams. Hell with a 9-5 job which is a series of constant interruptions. I have just about managed to cope with a strict system of constant note taking/lists/reminders but it is so much fucking effort as I have to consciously redirect and sustain focus.
Neurotypical people do all of this without even thinking so it's very difficult for them to understand what a constantly switched on, wandering, easily distracted mind feels like.
I was very ambitious when I first started working. But at this point the only way I'd be able to advance in my career was if my focus was 100% on work. Meaning little to no headspace for anything else, including life admin such as meal planning, exercising, family, travel etc etc. It would be impossible for me to juggle career and a family should I have one someday.
Given that I am starting to wonder whether it's worth it. It kills me to admit it as I'm from a family of immigrants to our country who place a very high emphasis on 'hard work'. So I can see why your DP feels the way he does.
OP if you cannot understand him and his outlook doesn't suit you then do him a favour and leave him be.

Yep, if I described my life, it would not fit the Mumsnet seal of approval. Weirdly, I'm very successful but people think I sit on my arse all day. 😊

I'm siding with your partner. Why live to work when you don't have to? I could earn a good salary if I work full time but I'm choosing to go part time and earn the national average so I have more time instead. I want to see my child's school plays, look after him when he's sick, go on days out in the summer holidays etc. What's the point of having children if you don't see them much? Even if I didn't have children, what's the point of having all this money if you have no time to enjoy spending it? Working full time I was constantly using days off to go queue in the bank, or go to the dentist, go to the doctors, get my house fixed up....never had time just to relax and have fun. I missed out on family birthday parties, spur of the moment family outings etc.

As long as he's not expecting someone else to pay his way, why work? If work was enjoyable, we wouldn't get paid to do it!

My son is waiting for a formal ADHD diagnosis. He sometimes has to drag himself to his part time job and he actually says he does not like work !

Also sympathising with the partner (and rather jealous of his wealth).

I see work as a duty, it is my responsibility to take care of myself, pay my bills and not place a burden on others. I absolutely do not enjoy it for its own sake or think it has any particular moral or social value. If I had inherited wealth I wouldn’t work, I’d draw and garden and be a perpetual student. I think many are similar (and why basic income schemes, I think, risk running into serious trouble)

Interesting the link between ADHD and this outlook. I think even with adjustments, workplaces are often poorly equipped for the different outlooks that come with neurodevelopmental disabilities, rather than just the practical impacts.

I live in his house rent free but would get the groceries and we split a lot of the rest. He tutors a bit and does some other stuff on the side, and its more than enough to live off comfortably.

So he does work and earn enough money to support you so that you don't need to pay rent. That is generous of him.

What would you as a couple do with the extra money which couldn't be done by you working a bit more and paying him some rent? You can't take money with you. If you have clear plans for how this money would enhance both of your lives, is he in agreement with that plan but just can't motivate himself or is it just your plan/ wish?

I don't think there is any benefit for just working 9-5 for appearances. He has an income stream which suits him and enables him to live comfortably. Does he have any dc to pass inheritance on to (not that it really matters in MN land)? As long as he supports himself and his dependants (?just you) what is the issue? Maybe you just have different goals in life and if you debate a lot over it then it is time to move on.

I have mixed views on it.

On the one hand, I’ve worked (with no gaps or career breaks) since I was 16 and am now 43. Long hours at times and it’s been a slog at times, but have a nice house and car and whilst not rich we can enjoy some luxuries, so it’s been worth the effort. Have at least 20 years of that left if not more.

On the other hand, there have been plenty of times I’ve been deep in thought about life and so on and questioned it all. The usual path through life for most people - we are born, grow up, get educated in school, start working, save some money, get a mortgage, continue working with the added stress of mortgage hanging over us, eventually retire at an older age and try to enjoy what passions/hobbies we still can in the vain hope that we are fit and healthy enough to do so.

This usually happens when I’m out for a walk or sitting on a pier somewhere watching a bird flying in the sky, and thinking how no other species on earth asides from humans works and stresses about work in the way we do. They all just live and do whatever comes naturally to them.

Of course without work we wouldn’t have the society and buildings and art and science and so on that we all enjoy. But I do admit a begrudging envy sometimes for those who live a nomadic kind of life without following the path we’re all ‘supposed’ to.

Seems he is financially OK.
But your status is a lodger
Accept him as he is
or don't and walk away
If you stay then
Get married before having kids

He did 2 degrees with unmedicated ADHD! Massive kudos to him because that must have been really difficult.

Are we talking 'work ethic' or 'career ethic'? For me, a work ethic is being willing to go out and work hard to earn a crust but not necessarily being motivated to progression. I'm a firm believer in grafting but I've never been driven towards moving up the career ladder.

@wibblewombat @WhoStoleMyCheese

Would you recommend any good online resources for ADHD? I know my partner struggles a lot even with the diagnosis concerning guilt, I think because it was quite hard for him to be taken seriously (he comes across very well and I think its the more inattention side of things), and even with the diagnosis because he had to push to get it I think he still feels like it might not even be a real thing.

He did describe it to me quite well (in my opinion) by showing me a passage from someone who vehemently wrote a book that adhd did not exist, and who felt it was rather misdiagnosed anxiety/depression or other overlapping symptoms. But the important part for him which made me really understand it was that the author of this book said that even though he didn't agree with the specific label, was that the ramifications of the symptoms were certainly real no matter the cause, and were profoundly far-reaching and affected relationships/career and education deeply.

And he did explain to me the reason he got his qualifications was that the landscape of education had changed, whereby most of the research he did was all online with studies etc. he could look up, and that lectures were all shared with classmates with notes and the better social media connections helped a lot with support regarding timelines etc. He did say if he had to do this years ago when you physically had to go get books out and order research papers in advance, and you relied solely on your own notes, that he would never have done as well.

And what you mentioned above in that when working he can only focus on something with 100% rings very true. He said it was so much effort for him, and even with medication though it helps he still feels he can only do 'one thing' well and everything else goes to shit, like he could scrape by reasonably at work but then is so exhausted juggling meals/planning/organisation/exercise/relationships on top of that is almost impossible.

I feel like I have a decent grasp of it but would love to hear more about how I can make him feel better about himself or help him.

I have no work ethic I think

well, according to most. I only work because bills.

I try to do a very thorough, professional job. I would be sad if anyone thought I was not a high standards worker.

I hate work though. It is one factor in why I haven't done better financially.

It sounds as if you want to change him, which I have had with men I've dated, really fucking irritating.

Also, before I accepted I just hate work, I would have talked shit about imposter syndrome.

Is it possible he isn't ready to just say "I hate work" because society, and you, are quite judgey?

He must be younger than me because his degree is not how it was in my day!

what would you like him to do instead?

I don’t have ASD, ADHD or any other condition. I have 3 degrees. I hate work, I gave up the ‘career’ thing a long time ago. I have a decent enough civil service job, I work part time. I could have gone for promotions, earnt more money, got a bigger ‘ better’ house. But I don’t need to. I earn enough to support myself and give my son a good life.

You would probably think I have no drive or ambition.

Your partner does appear to have been lucky with his inheritances but he is also self aware enough to realise that if he forced himself to follow what you perceive to be a more conventional lifestyle then he would be thoroughly miserable. So he chooses not to.

Has it occurred to you that if he did follow a more conventional work path he would not be the person you presumably love, because he would be a stressed out wreck ?

I've watched quite a lot of Russell Barkley stuff on ADHD to learn more so I could understand what my adult child was going through. Maybe try him?

Adhd Foundation
Additude

My favourite books are All dogs have adhd & Faster than Normal.

Videos by How to Adhd on YouTube might help explain the executive function issues.

Generally, we know what to do, doing it might be the challenge. 😁

Thanks its much appreciated :)

Were you ladies (and/or men!) diagnosed as an adult or as a child?

Did you find it challenging to obtain the correct diagnosis also?

I'm a bit torn, things that didn't worry me when I was younger now seem much more important , like earning my way in life.

I would want to know whether he is actually supporting himself now, or just running down the inheritances. That would matter to me.

I feel like I have a decent grasp of it but would love to hear more about how I can make him feel better about himself or help him.

He isn’t a project. It isn’t about a lack of ‘work ethic’ as you so judgementally put it. He has ADHD and is lucky enough to be in a financial position where he’s not forced into the misery of doing jobs he’ll hate.

I suspect you should do more reading about adhd.

I didn't mean it that way, I genuinely want to know more from other people's perspectives so I can support him in the subtle ways I may have missed from only reading about it and not having it myself