Staying for the kids?

[annonymouswoman]

Been on Mumsnet for a while but haven't been brave enough to post much.

Does anyone have any advice or experience of staying together for the kids?

A bit of background, we have been together for 12 years and have 2 DC both under 3. Things haven't been the same since the children were born due to various factors ranging from mental health issues to lockdown. I feel so lonely and unappreciated in our marriage and feel like we have drifted apart beyond repair - we always discuss our problems and try to fix them but each time we end up back to where we are now at. It's got to the stage the most trivial issues cause us to argue. He was my best friend and we have grown up together so can't imagine my life without him in it but how can I learn to live with the loneliness? I can't bear to only have my kids 50% of the time hence the post. I don't hate him in any way, it's quite the opposite, my heart breaks daily looking at how we've become and honestly looking at how he has changed. He's no longer the person I married. Apart from being civil and not letting the hurt show what else can I do?

The icing on the cake for me and the biggest realisation of the state of our marriage hit me this morning, I have been in and out of hospital (the most recent visit being recent) and not once have I had a cuddle or asked something as small as if I wanted a drink. I still get on with things as normal despite being told to rest. I honestly felt that this might have brought him back to me yet he's as distant as ever. I can't go into too much detail as I feel it would be outing but more than happy to answer any questions.

To summarise, how do you learn to live an a lonely marriage for the sake of the kids?

@annonymouswoman

That must be very hard for you and I feel for you. When you say you talked issues but end back, did you make any changes or did you just understand each other.?

Why not plan some changes and do a weekly check step on progress?

You have a choice re this man, they do not.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. They are NOT going to say "thanks mum" to you for choosing to stay with him if you did that and they could well accuse you also of putting him before them. There are a number of threads on MN from the now adult children of parents who stayed together for the sake of the children, the vast number of them wished that their parents had separated years earlier.

If we want our offspring to have joyful and successful relationships, we need to provide them with the best example we possibly can. Living in mediocrity or worse burdens children with very confusing messages about relationships and happiness. It certainly instructs them that loving marriages and partnerships are not their birthright.

Not infrequently, people are simply afraid to move on with their lives and take their own responsibility for happiness. Financial concerns or the fear of being alone often motivate such paralysis, hidden beneath the mask of staying together for the children.

Do you really think that such a man would actually want his children 50% of the time when he really is distant with you as their mother?. Its a spurious reason and one also based on fear which is not an absolute reality. He is likely showing the same sort of emotional distance to them too.

It is much more challenging to come to terms with our own circumstances and face our fears than it is to hide behind them as we stay together “for the kids.” I would urge you to face your fears head on now. Having two parents successfully move forward with their lives teaches an invaluable lesson: that we deserve to be happy and to feel loved. Conversely, remaining in relationships that perpetuate anger, devaluation, and lack of positive interactions leaves an indelible scar on children.

[quote Justa47]@annonymouswoman

That must be very hard for you and I feel for you. When you say you talked issues but end back, did you make any changes or did you just understand each other.?

Why not plan some changes and do a weekly check step on progress?[/quote]
We talk through the issues and note that we want things to go back to how they were and we make changes but it only seems to last a short period of time and inevitable we are back to here again. We have spoke in detail of weekly goals etc yet never seem to follow through. I definitely think we need to have a proper chat when the kids aren't around to see what is what. I just have so much love for him and wish I could have the man I married back.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

You have a choice re this man, they do not.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships and what are they learning here?. They are NOT going to say "thanks mum" to you for choosing to stay with him if you did that and they could well accuse you also of putting him before them. There are a number of threads on MN from the now adult children of parents who stayed together for the sake of the children, the vast number of them wished that their parents had separated years earlier.

If we want our offspring to have joyful and successful relationships, we need to provide them with the best example we possibly can. Living in mediocrity or worse burdens children with very confusing messages about relationships and happiness. It certainly instructs them that loving marriages and partnerships are not their birthright.

Not infrequently, people are simply afraid to move on with their lives and take their own responsibility for happiness. Financial concerns or the fear of being alone often motivate such paralysis, hidden beneath the mask of staying together for the children.

Do you really think that such a man would actually want his children 50% of the time when he really is distant with you as their mother?. Its a spurious reason and one also based on fear which is not an absolute reality. He is likely showing the same sort of emotional distance to them too.

It is much more challenging to come to terms with our own circumstances and face our fears than it is to hide behind them as we stay together “for the kids.” I would urge you to face your fears head on now. Having two parents successfully move forward with their lives teaches an invaluable lesson: that we deserve to be happy and to feel loved. Conversely, remaining in relationships that perpetuate anger, devaluation, and lack of positive interactions leaves an indelible scar on children.

Thanks for the advice. To be honest DH is a great dad and dotes on the 2 DC and is always hands on with them it's just with me he's different. He has suffered from MH issues the last couple years which I believe is the reason for the change in his personality but I'm just struggling to deal with it after trying for so long to help him.

Of course I want my children to grow up and know what true love looks like and that's what makes it harder as that is what we had. We used to be the best of friends and very much in love but the last couple years it has dwindled. Don't get me wrong we have our good days but most lately there seems to be more bad days than good days.

I'm not scared to be alone, to be completely honest I'm scared of walking away and giving everything up incase I realise I've made the biggest mistake of my life. I live in hope that we can go back to the couple we used to be. I'm just unsure how to be those people again. I feel I've exhausted every option and still don't know how to go forward.

I grew up in a home where there was no love between my parents who eventually separated when I was a teen and I have vowed to never put my kids through that.

Do not get bogged down in your sunk costs; too many people do that and the sunken costs fallacy lets people go on making poor relationship decisions.

There are two ways to understand this process, both involving avoidance. One is an avoidance of disappointment or loss when something doesn’t work out. When a relationship doesn’t succeed, especially after a long period, especially after many shared experiences and especially after developing a hope that the relationship would be a good one, it is a loss. It is a loss of what might have been and an acknowledgement that a part of one’s life has been devoted to this endeavour.

Another angle to evaluate is that focus on “sunk cost” creates a distraction from one’s inner truth. The sentence often goes like, “I’ve already invested to much, so I can’t notice my thoughts and feelings that are telling me to end or change this relationship.”
This is a type of insidious defense against noticing yourself. You enter into a neglectful relationship with yourself which divorces you from your inner thoughts and the quiet feelings that might guide you in your life. In other words, thinking about what already has been may prevent you from deciding what you want your life to be.

The point I’m getting at here is not to stay only because of the losses that you think will occur if you leave. If you are staying for the sole reason of having sunk a lot of your time into the relationship, consider how many more years you will sink into the relationship by continuing to stay. Staying in an unhappy relationship because you hope that it will get better (and how many times have you already done that) and is worth saving is very different from staying in an unhappy relationship with no foreseeable improvement purely because you’ve sunk time into it.

Your parents stayed together till you were a teen and you were likely all too aware of their relationship problems. You probably also wished that they had separated far earlier. You have stated that you would not want to put your kids through that so don't!. You do not have to repeat what your parents did and potentially drag out this relationship till their teenage years.

What has he himself done, if anything here, to address any MH issues?. I would not readily prescribe those to him given as well his total lack of caring when it comes to you.

If he was truly a great dad to his children, he would not treat you as their mother like you have. He can continue to be a "great dad" to his children going forward and particularly if he decides to be amicable about separating which he may well not.

@annonymouswoman

I guess the trick is to put a weekly one hour chat in place

@AttilaTheMeerkat

Do not get bogged down in your sunk costs; too many people do that and the sunken costs fallacy lets people go on making poor relationship decisions.

There are two ways to understand this process, both involving avoidance. One is an avoidance of disappointment or loss when something doesn’t work out. When a relationship doesn’t succeed, especially after a long period, especially after many shared experiences and especially after developing a hope that the relationship would be a good one, it is a loss. It is a loss of what might have been and an acknowledgement that a part of one’s life has been devoted to this endeavour.

Another angle to evaluate is that focus on “sunk cost” creates a distraction from one’s inner truth. The sentence often goes like, “I’ve already invested to much, so I can’t notice my thoughts and feelings that are telling me to end or change this relationship.”
This is a type of insidious defense against noticing yourself. You enter into a neglectful relationship with yourself which divorces you from your inner thoughts and the quiet feelings that might guide you in your life. In other words, thinking about what already has been may prevent you from deciding what you want your life to be.

The point I’m getting at here is not to stay only because of the losses that you think will occur if you leave. If you are staying for the sole reason of having sunk a lot of your time into the relationship, consider how many more years you will sink into the relationship by continuing to stay. Staying in an unhappy relationship because you hope that it will get better (and how many times have you already done that) and is worth saving is very different from staying in an unhappy relationship with no foreseeable improvement purely because you’ve sunk time into it.

Your parents stayed together till you were a teen and you were likely all too aware of their relationship problems. You probably also wished that they had separated far earlier. You have stated that you would not want to put your kids through that so don't!. You do not have to repeat what your parents did and potentially drag out this relationship till their teenage years.

What has he himself done, if anything here, to address any MH issues?. I would not readily prescribe those to him given as well his total lack of caring when it comes to you.

If he was truly a great dad to his children, he would not treat you as their mother like you have. He can continue to be a "great dad" to his children going forward and particularly if he decides to be amicable about separating which he may well not.

Many thanks for your post.

It's a tough reality admitting that the last decade or so of your life might have been for nothing. Part of me feels as though I would be staying out of fear of the loss of the years of my life yet the other part of me truly believe we could be saved but I don't even know where to begin anymore.

I definitely do wish my parents had separated earlier as I feel I have a lot of issues relating to growing up In this atmosphere and do not wish this for my kids.

He has been to the gp and has had medication but is no longer on it.

I have no doubt in my mind about his parenting ability if we did separate, I know the kids will have two loving homes if it came to that.

[quote Justa47]@annonymouswoman

I guess the trick is to put a weekly one hour chat in place[/quote]
It's definitely something to consider prior to doing anything hasty.

But as you have yourself written, "We have spoke in detail of weekly goals etc yet never seem to follow through"

Re your comment:-

"It's a tough reality admitting that the last decade or so of your life might have been for nothing. Part of me feels as though I would be staying out of fear of the loss of the years of my life yet the other part of me truly believe we could be saved but I don't even know where to begin anymore."

It has not been for nothing, you have children from this relationship. Do not get bogged down in your sunk costs, that is what you are writing about now. You cannot keep throwing good after bad here. You cannot save this relationship on your own, he has to fully be committed as well. This is not coming from him in your posts; he has made token efforts at best.

Do not stay only because of the losses that you think will occur if you leave.

It may well be an idea for you to have counselling on your own, you need to be able to talk openly in both a calm and safe environment.

I note he no longer takes medication that was prescribed by the GP, it may well be that he did not need that in the first place.

Rather than discuss your problems, discuss your actual feelings. You could make time for a proper conversation and tell him how you feel: neglected by him and sad. Ask him how he feels. See what his responses are, and then see what you want to do about it.

@AttilaTheMeerkat

But as you have yourself written, "We have spoke in detail of weekly goals etc yet never seem to follow through"

Re your comment:-

"It's a tough reality admitting that the last decade or so of your life might have been for nothing. Part of me feels as though I would be staying out of fear of the loss of the years of my life yet the other part of me truly believe we could be saved but I don't even know where to begin anymore."

It has not been for nothing, you have children from this relationship. Do not get bogged down in your sunk costs, that is what you are writing about now. You cannot keep throwing good after bad here. You cannot save this relationship on your own, he has to fully be committed as well. This is not coming from him in your posts; he has made token efforts at best.

Do not stay only because of the losses that you think will occur if you leave.

It may well be an idea for you to have counselling on your own, you need to be able to talk openly in both a calm and safe environment.

I note he no longer takes medication that was prescribed by the GP, it may well be that he did not need that in the first place.

Thanks for your post. The kids are definitely the best part of our relationship and I wouldn't change them for the world.

I agree with you regarding counselling I suffer from depression and anxiety myself and have some issues which have resulted from my relationship with my own father so maybe if I can heal myself first I can deal with everything else better.

@AnarchicLemming

Rather than discuss your problems, discuss your actual feelings. You could make time for a proper conversation and tell him how you feel: neglected by him and sad. Ask him how he feels. See what his responses are, and then see what you want to do about it.

Thank you for the advice. It is definitely something that I will try. I don't want to give up on our life together hastily but will get my ducks in row as precaution.