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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Would value some advice please

18 replies

Terrynotmerry · 07/02/2021 21:07

Hi, I am not sure if men are supposed to post on here, however when I look back, most of the positive advice I have ever received has come from women!

I really didn’t think that I would be in this position at the grand old age of almost 47 but here I am. Apologies for the long post but I am hoping it will be therapeutic!

To say that things have gone pear shaped for us (wife and I) over the last 5 years would be a massive understatement but the time has come for me to do what I can to get back to a more secure position.
In 2016 we were both working full time. I was a headteacher in a secondary school and my wife a full-time primary school teacher. We have two children who are both still at school. Things were comfortable and we had a fairly decent life. We were both prone to running up our credit cards a bit but nothing that was ever unmanageable and we also had car finance etc. We probably owed about 20K at that point but on a joint salary of about £115k is was all good.

We had long dreamed of starting our own business. We had a plan and had spent years discussing and dreaming about it. In 2016 we inherited 20k and decided to take the plunge. The nature of the business is quite specific so I am not going to go into details on here out of fear of being identified. At the start it went well and we were quickly almost matching our previous income, however a set of circumstances and some bad luck quickly plotted against us and things started to slide. Our income started to plummet and we were working harder and harder for less and less reward. We were both committed and tried to weather the storm, however things went from bad to worse and we had to cease trading in 2019.
For almost 3 years we had plugged to gap with credit cards, loans and overdrafts. It was a case of pure desperation, along with an unwillingness to admit that we were flogging a dead horse. By the end of it I had about 65K of personal debt and I estimate that my wife had around 25k.

The strain of what happened almost destroyed us and we separated for 5 months at the end of 2019. It felt like a bereavement and were basically punishing each other for what had happened, playing the blame game etc. Both of us suffered in terms of our mental health and my wife is still medication. At the start of the 2020 lockdown we realised that we both wanted to give our marriage another go and moved back in together.

I have managed to get a job as a deputy headteacher in a secondary school. I might not be the Headteacher anymore but it’s a well-paid job (70k) and I feel fortunate. My wife has also returned to full time teaching. Things are still very difficult and we are waiting to start a course of marriage guidance. My wife refuses to talk about the finances and currently our finances are totally separate. We both pay money into a joint account for our mortgage and utilities, but apart from that there is no collaboration. I have tried to raise this many times as I want us to tackle our debts together, but at the moment this isn’t going to happen.

I have managed to pay my debts down a little to just under 55K. I estimate that my wife still has around 25K BUT she has just inherited just under 26K so I suppose she is ‘debt neutral’. I have no access to this money and it’s been made clear that she isn’t willing to enter into any discussions about how it used. I will tackle this during our counselling sessions, but for now I have to just focus on what I can do, i.e. paying my own debts down.

I will do the full SOA soon, but in a nutshell, I take home around £3550 per month. I pay £700 into our joint account for my share of the mortgage and bills. I have non-debt related direct debits – phone, insurance for £300 and I tend to pay for most of our food at about £300 a month. My minimum debt payments are £1100 and I pay £225 a month for my car lease, which leaves me with about £925 that I can use as additional payments. I have been trying to use as much of this as I can to reduce some of the debt.

I would welcome any support and advice from anyone who has been in this situation. I would ask that you don’t simply recommend that my wife and I work collaboratively on our finances – I know that would be the best option and it is certainly my preference. At the moment I just need to do what I can do without adding any further pressure to our marriage. I am hoping that our counselling will help with this.

OP posts:
Shoxfordian · 07/02/2021 21:16

Is she going to start talking to you at counselling about your finances? I don’t see how you can be a team if she won’t talk to you openly

Swingometer · 07/02/2021 21:27

I am intrigued by the huge difference between the amount of personal debt you built up over the 2-3 year period. £65k is an enormous amount. Was this money spent on the failing business or something else?

I suppose what I’m asking is was the money spent on joint things that you both agreed on or not? If the spending was yours rather than joint then I can understand why your wife is reluctant to share responsibility for the debt in your name.

JustAnotherOldMan · 07/02/2021 22:11

Hello mate ( I’m not a woman so pls fell free to ignore me )

Sorry to hear about your business failure, reading this you have about 50 k of debt and your wife about another 25k, but 25 inheritance, so no debt really.
So why are you paying ‘most’ of the food, why is your wife not paying half, also can you buy out of car lease, do you need a car ?
Also can you switch to cheaper phone contact for a while?

If you’re wife is now debt free, could she use some of her freeded up income to help you?

The other option is, now you’re wife is debt free, she’s decided to check out, but of course you need to get into this in your counselling

Terrynotmerry · 07/02/2021 22:23

@JustAnotherOldMan

Hello mate ( I’m not a woman so pls fell free to ignore me )

Sorry to hear about your business failure, reading this you have about 50 k of debt and your wife about another 25k, but 25 inheritance, so no debt really.
So why are you paying ‘most’ of the food, why is your wife not paying half, also can you buy out of car lease, do you need a car ?
Also can you switch to cheaper phone contact for a while?

If you’re wife is now debt free, could she use some of her freeded up income to help you?

The other option is, now you’re wife is debt free, she’s decided to check out, but of course you need to get into this in your counselling

Hi I would like to think that she would use some of her income to help but at the moment that's not an option. You may be right about her wanting to check out. I really hope not but I don't know what more I can do
OP posts:
Terrynotmerry · 07/02/2021 22:24

@JustAnotherOldMan

Hello mate ( I’m not a woman so pls fell free to ignore me )

Sorry to hear about your business failure, reading this you have about 50 k of debt and your wife about another 25k, but 25 inheritance, so no debt really.
So why are you paying ‘most’ of the food, why is your wife not paying half, also can you buy out of car lease, do you need a car ?
Also can you switch to cheaper phone contact for a while?

If you’re wife is now debt free, could she use some of her freeded up income to help you?

The other option is, now you’re wife is debt free, she’s decided to check out, but of course you need to get into this in your counselling

Hi, We had some debt beforehand but a much more manageable amount. The remaining debt was built up by just trying to stay afloat. Some months I was withdrawing money on my credit card, paying it into the bank so that the mortgage payment wouldn't bounce! I know that we have both made some poor financial decisions but we are both accountable.
OP posts:
LizzieSiddal · 07/02/2021 22:27

Why do you have more debt than your wife? We’re you paying for joint things for the family or was it for things for you?

Terrynotmerry · 07/02/2021 22:31

@LizzieSiddal

Why do you have more debt than your wife? We’re you paying for joint things for the family or was it for things for you?
HI,

I just had more access to unused credit. We ust used the cards and loans that we had. At that point it was all considered joint

OP posts:
Singlenotsingle · 07/02/2021 22:35

Maybe you earn a lot more than she does? You're on £75k but you don't say how much she's earning. I don't see why there's a problem. You take home £3550 and after all your expenses are accounted for you still have £925 pm left to use as you wish (probably helping to clear debts). It might take you a while but you'll get there in the end. Maybe remortgage (if you currently have a small mortgage?).

LizzieSiddal · 07/02/2021 22:35

Ok so if “your” debt was joint, and your wife isn’t willing to consider even talking about it, then I’m really not sure how you can move forward with your relationship, until you have spoken about it with a counsellor. I know you say you don’t want posters to say this, but this is the elephant in the room.

Terrynotmerry · 07/02/2021 23:47

@LizzieSiddal

Ok so if “your” debt was joint, and your wife isn’t willing to consider even talking about it, then I’m really not sure how you can move forward with your relationship, until you have spoken about it with a counsellor. I know you say you don’t want posters to say this, but this is the elephant in the room.
I know, it is a major factor but it's also something that I have limited control over. My mindset is that I need to work on 'my' debts and at least make some positive progress in that area
OP posts:
Terrynotmerry · 07/02/2021 23:50

@Singlenotsingle

Maybe you earn a lot more than she does? You're on £75k but you don't say how much she's earning. I don't see why there's a problem. You take home £3550 and after all your expenses are accounted for you still have £925 pm left to use as you wish (probably helping to clear debts). It might take you a while but you'll get there in the end. Maybe remortgage (if you currently have a small mortgage?).
I do earn quite a bit more than her. It's more about wanting us to work together on it and have a joint goal. I really don't want to remortage the house
OP posts:
Swingometer · 08/02/2021 07:16

You may have considered the debt joint at that point because it was prior to your marital problems but you haven't given us an insight as to what the £65k was spent on?

If the money was spent on your failing business and your wife was fully aware of this at the time and supportive of it, then I have a lot more sympathy for you than if the money was spent on maintaining your previous lifestyle

category12 · 08/02/2021 07:28

Did you both agree to taking out all the debt, or was one of you more trying to put the brakes on? Looking back, and trying to be objective, were you both genuinely on the same page?

If you're earning a lot more, then you should be paying proportionately more.

I can understand her not wanting to discuss finances with you if you have a track record of talking her into things / overriding her better judgement. Could that be true here? It's not good news if so: when I stopped wanting to discuss things with my ex because I knew it would get me nowhere, that was one of the death knells for the marriage.

JustAnotherOldMan · 08/02/2021 08:38

What are current mortgage arrangements.

Additional borrowing on your current mortgage will give you access to cheaper money to repay some or all of loans or credit cards and save in the longer term

If you’re mortgage is in joint name and she refuses to think about it, then I think it’s over

Terrynotmerry · 08/02/2021 13:43

@Swingometer

You may have considered the debt joint at that point because it was prior to your marital problems but you haven't given us an insight as to what the £65k was spent on?

If the money was spent on your failing business and your wife was fully aware of this at the time and supportive of it, then I have a lot more sympathy for you than if the money was spent on maintaining your previous lifestyle

Hi, The money was spent on staying afloat over a 3 year period. There were no luxuries or treats, in fact some months we were using credit card cash to pay our mortgage. We stupidly kidded ourselves that we would be able to turn things around but sadly that wasn't to be. We were both fully aware of the debt - that has never been a point of conflict between us.
OP posts:
Terrynotmerry · 08/02/2021 13:45

@category12

Did you both agree to taking out all the debt, or was one of you more trying to put the brakes on? Looking back, and trying to be objective, were you both genuinely on the same page?

If you're earning a lot more, then you should be paying proportionately more.

I can understand her not wanting to discuss finances with you if you have a track record of talking her into things / overriding her better judgement. Could that be true here? It's not good news if so: when I stopped wanting to discuss things with my ex because I knew it would get me nowhere, that was one of the death knells for the marriage.

When things were falling apart we were both desperate and trying to do everything to make the business work. I certainly don't think that I have ever tried to talk her into anything, in fact she has always been the driving force behind us. I am quite a passive guy.
OP posts:
TaraR2020 · 08/02/2021 17:02

Op,

I'm not really sure what advice you're asking for if you don't want repeated posts telling you to discuss your finances?

Atm the only thing I feel i can say is to make the point that maybe your wife doesn't feel able to discuss finances yet.

The stress you must both have felt under the weight of all that debt is unimaginable. I'm guessing that now she's in the black with the debt she was managing she can't face the prospect of feeling like she's back in the red by putting towards the remaining debt.

Her implacable refusal to discuss it suggests to me she's scared and finds it overwhelming. At the moment she's probably breathing out again because she feels more secure. Especially if divorce might be potentially on the cards as you suggest.

There's a line of thought, and I've seen it argued on here, that inheritance should stick only with the person who inherited it. And while she may be well aware that a divorce settlement might split it, she may feel the need to protect herself at the moment as its clear you no longer feel like a team.

Your earning potential is also greater than hers. Do you have children?

If you were to divorce, her earning potential is likely to be limited further.

I think you need to decide what's more important to you. Her contributing more to clearing the debt, or your marriage.

GeeBranzi · 07/03/2021 04:43

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