What would your reaction be?

[Sinfoniaconcertante]

Dh and I (married for a long time, two dc) aren’t getting on at he moment, quite majorly. We’re not talking much. Part of the issue is because he has always had an problem with how I (pt working sahm) keep the house. It’s clean, but with 2 dc, not always tidy.

So, when we started realising we had marriage problems, we’ve both been having counselling. All of a sudden, dh started getting up early to tidy, put a load of washing on, empty the dishwasher, cleaning the kitchen etc. Stuff he’s never done in 20 years he was doing on a regular basis, albeit in a foul mood (so I left him to it).

I thought that it must be a result of his counselling - he realised that the things that wound him up about my housekeeping were easily sortable by just doing it himself, to his expected standard.

This lasted a couple of weeks. Then, when it (obviously) hadn’t solved our marriage difficulties, he said ‘I’m trying to do what you want me to do, but it’s obviously not working’. .... and since then has done nothing.

I never said I wanted him to get up early and do all this stuff. I thought he was doing them as he’d realised they bothered him, and he wanted to do them himself so they were done ‘right’, as it would help his state of mind.

I work 16 hours per week, plus I do all the cooking, homeschooling, shopping, organising, finances, literally everything is my responsibility. Dh does have a turn of phrase ‘do you want me to put the bins out’, ‘what do you want ...’ all the time. I never planned it to be 100% responsible for family organisation, but it seems to have ended up like this. I’m constantly tired. But, he works hard too, and earns 10x what i do.

But, I digress.

Why, after 20 years of doing these things myself, am I pissed off that it turns out that he was only doing these things because he thought I ‘wanted’ him to do them?

I can’t articulate my difficulty with what’s happened, so hopefully you can...

Sounds like it's about sthg else and the housework is the red herring

You skivy, he boss of the house.
He has proved to you how easy your skivy work is, now get back to it!

How many hours a week does he work though? If you’re working 16 hours, why can’t you clean the house?

Why did he think you wanted that? Have you made it clear to him what you want? Has he made it clear to you what he wants?

@Sammiesnake I do clean the house, and have done for a long time. I do it perfectly well. But with 2 dc, it’s not often kept to his standards. But honestly, our house is tidier and cleaner than most of my friends - it’s just he never sees other people’s houses during normal daytime hours, so can’t compare with anything other than his immaculate childhood home.

After counselling, he suddenly took on the role of getting up early to do things. I thought it made him feel better, as he got everything immaculate before anyone else was up. However, it turns out he seems to think I ‘wanted’ him to do this. That’s the problem. I didn’t.

@eckhart I have no idea why he thought I wanted him to do all these things, after 20 years of doing them myself (just not to his standard)

OP you need to discuss this. If he has exacting standards he can work out a rota for himself to do it.

So, have you made it clear to him what you want? Has he made it clear to you what he wants?

If not, how do either of you expect to get what you want?

I think if such a big deal is being made of something so small then there are clearly much deeper underlying issues. I don’t know what would help this situation because it sounds like no matter what you do, he will find a problem with it. There’s no winning in some cases. I think marriage counselling may help so that you can speak to each other honestly but don’t blame yourself because you are doing your best. If he doesn’t like how it’s being done then he should have no complaints doing it himself. Don’t beat yourself up for being pissed off, I would be too!

You Jane. He Tarzan. Do what you are told woman.
My xh had tons of rules about how I should clean. Even although he's the messiest person in the world. I threw him out and absolutely know he lives in squalor now.

I couldn't think of anything worse than being a SAHM and cook and clean and do everything in a house for a bloke. No way. Its so outdated now isn't it? I work full time and so does my partner and we share all responsibilities.

So is the argument about cleaning or not?? You’re saying you don’t want to do the extra cleaning, so he should do it himself if he wants to. He started doing the extra cleaning but that didn’t resolve the argument any and he stopped. Is that right? If so then the argument must be about something else entirely and the cleaning is a red herring. Do you still love each other?

So it's not about him doing more house chores, it's about him taking more of the mental load, is that it? Not asking you what he should do, but getting on and doing it.

So he did that (in one area of life) for two weeks. What did he think the results of him doing that would be? Seems he was expecting a reaction from you, what reaction was that? Ask him.

It's a communication problem you've got. You're both guessing what the other one wants or is thinking. Are you having separate counselling or joined counselling or a bit of both? I think you need some joined counselling to help you discuss these issues. You need to tell him what you want from him.

Is it action of some kind? Like him keeping on sharing the house chores (and not expecting a medal for it)? Do you want him to eg take over sorting out car insurance every year? Help with home schooling the DC? Look after them on his own on Saturday mornings so you can go out (after lockdown) with a friend or have a hobby? He's not a mind reader, you have to communicate and negotiate, both of you. Do you know yourself what it is that you want? Solo counselling can help you work that out if you don't already know.

Maybe it's not an action, as such. Maybe he's critical, always putting you down eg your comments about his 'standards' and you want him to change? TBH people don't tend to change in their beliefs just because someone else wants them to, so if it's something like that it could be impossible to fix and you'd be better off divorced.

Maybe the marriage would be better off with you both working full time, both taking equal house chores or getting a cleaner in, both doing equal childcare or paying for someone to help with that, both doing equal life admin. You don't sound much of a team at the moment, more like master and slave. Teammates work together for the greater good. With a boss/employee situation at work generally the boss kicks butt at times and the employee resents that hassle/resents the boss.

Is he perhaps a Big Important Man used to getting his own way at work? I've known a few of them, always of a certain age (40-60), they generally hate me because if I know them in a social setting I won't be treated as if they're my boss and that infuriates them. I can tell with some they're so used to subservient people negotiating and asking permission basically, whereas I say "no I'm not being unreasonable and I'm going to do this because it suits me, sorry you don't like it" and they get so angry that they can't get their own way. If it's the other way round, this type of person doesn't take my needs into consideration. I'm only doing what they do, but they can't stand it coming from someone else.

Him earning more doesn't matter. You've both got 24hrs in your day. You both deserve down time. He needs to realise mental load isn't only about house chores, it encompasses all of life.

Also is there double standards going on? I presume you didn't expect lavish praise for cracking on with house chores all these years, so why was he expecting a reaction of some sort from you when he did the same chores?

Have either of you considered getting a cleaner once or twice a week?
Do you like each other? Still intimate? Or is this marriage just flatmates who don't particularly get on?