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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Young man engaged to girl diagnosed with schizophrenia

45 replies

LizFlowers · 31/01/2021 22:25

I realise this is not my business but it concerns someone very closely related to me.

A chap in his thirties has known a young woman, an American, for about four years. Lovely girl in her thirties! She was widowed a few years ago and has a young child. They became engaged some eighteen months ago and were planning to marry last year but then the pandemic happened. She cannot come here, which was the plan, and he cannot go to see her.

She lives in a fairly rural, mountainous area, very beautiful with lakes, etc, and has rarely ventured far from there. The inhabitants of her town live very close to nature. Not much happens there and there aren't many prospects.

He usually works for several months a year in America and Canada and met her when he was working in her home town. There was an instant attraction, they became close and started a relationship during which time she has travelled all over the States with him for holidays (New York, Florida, Texas, Disney etc), he has spent holidays at her home and she has been here in London, which she likes.

Last year she had several episodes of shrieking at him, accusing him of all sorts of things (which he hasn't done and deep down she knows he hasn't), insulting and blocking him everywhere. He put that down to the tension caused by lockdown, etc, and the fact that they cannot see each other. He's working from home, she is not doing very much. She also told him that she heard people telling her things when she was on her own, at night etc. It was very difficult. A good well meaning friend of his who knows her intervened, telling her how wrong she was, misjudging her guy, etc, but that didn't go down well and friend was blocked.

Now it transpires she has been diagnosed as schizophrenic and is on medication. Apparently she has always heard voices but her family, who live near her, used to say she was in touch with the spirit world and it was natural!

I have every sympathy for this young woman but am terrified of him marrying someone who is so mentally unstable; who knows how she would be living here without her parents, siblings and extended family nearby. It's one thing to like visiting a place and spending time with a person you love, living together is a different kettle of fish. I don't know what she would do work-wise, they did have some ideas about that, ie her working in a jointly owned business. They also talked about having a child.

When I spoke to him yesterday he said, when he is free to travel, he will go to her and wants her to have a second medical opinion on her mental health (which he would finance) - preferably here because he doesn't have much faith in the medics where she lives. Then he'll see how it goes.

He is very work focussed and wants to have a secure base. He is a nice and popular person, clever and interesting.

I honestly don't know what to say, if anything. He is old enough to make up his own mind and take his chances, so is she, but I also feel I may not be doing him any favours by saying nothing. He has to protect himself.

It's frightening, frankly.

Sorry this has been long. I wanted to share and wonder if anyone has experience of similar,

Thank you for reading.

OP posts:
FixTheBone · 01/02/2021 07:11

From the description, and feel free to correct me if I'm misreading it completely, but...

it seems neither you nor the 'well meaning friend' you mentioned have the knowledge or business to be interfering with somebody else's mental health diagnosis.

One of the first things about psychotic illness is that people lose insight into being unwell, so the assertion that 'deep down she knows' and simply telling her she's wrong are probably fundamentally incorrect.

AlternativePerspective · 01/02/2021 07:16

I wouldn’t bank on her being able to come and live here.

The press put so much of a spin on imigration being easy, how anyone can come here and live, but that’s actually far from the truth. I know two people who have married US citizens, brought them over here to live, and although they were able to live here until their citizen tests etc both have now been refused permanent status because of their health and are awaiting deportation.

A serious health problem can and will likely go against her.

And yes, I would be concerned. Certain mental health conditions are not to be taken lightly, and schizophrenia is most definitely one of them.

ResignYourself · 01/02/2021 10:05

Schizophrenia can be inherited. If they plan to have a family then that should be considered.

LizFlowers · 01/02/2021 11:45

I want to say I slept quite well and felt better for having expressed it all to you. I really appreciate all your comments.

Regarding him living out there, I said earlier her home is in a rural area where not a lot goes on; they have a tourist industry which is obviously doing nothing at the moment but other than that, not much. She desperately wants to live over here, likes it and thinks there are more prospects, he does not want to live in America permanently but happy to spend time there when his work is back to normal (when). He has work which is centred here (business). Their idea was to keep her house, let it for some of the time and go there for vacation.

It all sounds very idealistic when I write it down. I just accepted it before, it seemed lovely! After his dad died I was so, so pleased they got engaged and she is smashing, so is her child.

They can't be the only people whose plans have been messed up by the pandemic and of course, her diagnosis adds complication to the mix but she could be well on the right meds (she is far from well at the moment).

I won't say any more for the time being but will update when I know anything new - will see him tomorrow. You can understand why I am reticent about interfering but I had to 'let it out'.

Gosh I wish his dad was still here, at least I'd have someone to talk to about it. I say nothing to anyone!

Bless you all for being helpful.

OP posts:
MrsWhistledown · 01/02/2021 12:08

@RantyAnty

You're his mum aren't you.

If he really wants to marry her and have a life with her, why doesn't he simply move there?

Hes far more wordly and would have a much easier time adapting there than expecting her and her child to move to him with no family or friends.

What else besides a couple of melt downs make her schizophrenic?

This is what I thought too.

If shes recently had a diagnosis, has a child and has a support system there then it seems much more logical for him to settle there with her, or at least at first.

It seems strange to do it the opposite way round and for her to come here.

HermioneWeasley · 01/02/2021 12:15

It’s a very big move for anyone to make, let alone someone with a mental health condition and a child. I’d be worried about both of them in this situation.

burnoutbabe · 01/02/2021 12:26

i assume he would not be able to move there anyway, she would need to sponsor him for a K1/fiance visa and you need a well paid job for that (or capital) and it doesn't sound like she has that.

MsF1t · 01/02/2021 12:38

A second opinion may well be worthwhile. In the US, treatment can be very patchy- it seems like they are often keener to diagnose and medicate heavily than here- but only if your insurance will cough up. She may well be quite treatable, but obviously it would take time and professional advice to know. My cousin's wife had it and unfortunately had to go into hospital permanently, leaving him alone to raise the kids. On the other hand, my own father had bipolar, and despite a few episodes in hospital, lived a meaningful and productive life and had a happy marriage with my mother. I hope that she gets the help she needs either way.

TheVanguardSix · 01/02/2021 12:47

I can understand your worry, OP.
I am very aware of what life can be like with a person who has been diagnosed with schizophrenia. If you have a person who is not taking their meds and is in a country like the States (we have a poor track record when it comes to mental health- I'm American by the way but I've lived in the UK for 25 years and am a former NHS worker myself), it's a bit of a recipe for disaster. Her care would unquestionably be better over here. The options for mental health treatment are still stronger in the UK than in the US... and affordable! So much of it has to be paid out of pocket in the States. So, flawed as the care is here in the UK, the care is a) available to all and b)better, to be honest.

I personally think coming back here is the better option, especially since she seems keen. However, that is her talking. What about the boy's biological father? If he is active in the child's life, then moving over to the UK is out of the question, unless the biological father agrees that moving to the UK is best for the child.

Your son (I assume this is who we're talking about) will need to spend some quality time with this woman before any decision is made. I'd encourage him to spend a year in the States with her and her child before putting any rings on anyone's finger. Her mental health- and the fact that she is very unwell and unmanaged it sounds like- forces your son to be more pragmatic than romantic at this point. It is important that he takes his time and sees what life with her is like if the illness is well managed (if he spends time with her in the States, he can play a role in helping her to manage her illness better). It will not be an easy relationship, but that doesn't mean it's destined to be unhappy and unloving. I'd take my time before packing everyone up and moving over here. That can be done once he knows her and her illness well. Also, it depends on the child's father's support in such a move. Best of luck!

Cheesyblasters · 01/02/2021 12:52

Its not silly for him to question the diagnosis. Mental health conditions are diagnosed differently around the world and in particular there is a difference in how the UK and US diagnose and treat schizophrenia, along with other conditions such as bipolar disorder. And the US prescribes medication for mental health conditions much more readily than we do in the UK. That's not to say she doesn't have a mental health condition but it would make sense to learn more about what that is rather than making decisions about what he thinks it would mean.

MrsTerryPratchett · 01/02/2021 14:16

A serious health problem can and will likely go against her.

And immigrants can find themselves 'between' healthcare provision. In the other country too long for travel insurance (which often excludes preexisting conditions anyway) and not qualifying for settled/resident healthcare.

I've moved country a couple of times and once relied on a very nice South African doctor who treated me very cheaply just because we were both immigrants and he felt sorry for me.

If he's loaded he may well be able to pay privately but it's risky.

LizFlowers · 01/02/2021 15:41

@burnoutbabe

i assume he would not be able to move there anyway, she would need to sponsor him for a K1/fiance visa and you need a well paid job for that (or capital) and it doesn't sound like she has that.
He could move to the USA, no doubt about that. She is very stable financially and he is always welcome in the USA because of what he does. However, as I explained in earlier posts, they want to settle here. Where she lives there is nothing for him. The only 'industry' is a casino! It's a lovely place for a vacation, unbelievably scenic, but no more than that.

She wants to live here, in the London area, and all his connections are here. There is something unrealistic about it all though, a sort of pipe dream; I hadn't thought about it like that before, talking about it on here has helped.

However - I have no update but was talking to him earlier, not about this but generally, and he reckons there will be no travel (unless essential) for the rest of the year and is making plans to do various things work-wise. He seemed very upbeat about prospects. Life goes on! For me too, I have other things to think about and do but......this is naturally a worry for me.

OP posts:
hellosunshineagain · 02/02/2021 07:29

@WoodpileHouse - agree!

If she is on medication presumably the illness is under control? OP - if you have worked for the NHS have you seen patients' recovery or just them being very ill with schizophrenia?

The post is a bit discriminatory. The poor woman is recovering from a mental illness.

A family member had a bad psychotic episode quite a few years ago. He takes medication and has turned his life around.

CyranosBestie · 02/02/2021 07:36

You are 100% his mum!

If he knows she is (or may be) schizophrenic he is not going into this blindly. It's good that he's helping her seek a diagnosis and treatment, whatever her condition. He can help her by finding out as much as possible about the condition and how to help someone with it. He also needs to establish a solid support base for himself.

Schizophrenia is much maligned so if you don't know much about it, I can understand why you'd be concerned. You aren't wrong being concerned, it's natural as you care about them. How things go really depends on the person (her) and how well treatment works and how well she looks after herself. All of course assuming she does have schizophrenia.

The best thing you can do is be supportive.

chickychicchic · 02/02/2021 07:55

Hi Op I can understand your concerns there are MH problems in my family and it takes a strong character to be married to someone with MH. Others can shoot me all they like but I live with this day to day.

He does need to think very carefully about his future but if he has done that then his decision needs to be respected. I think you can chat with him and advice him how difficult it can be and if he wants that for the rest of his life.
I know MH can happen at any time but it's still very hard to deal with yes some people get good treatment and are stable but that's not always the case some people struggle for a long time for stability, my friend has been in and out of hospital for the past 6yrs as they struggle to find drugs that help. Nhs MH is stretched beyond capacity.

I also agree her moving away from support and family is going to be hard and put a lot of pressure on him too whilst she settles. Getting a visa is also hard. I know of couples apart for many months whilst sorting our visas. One couple now live in America.

So your concerns are valid you just need to tread carefully and offer support etc but don't over step it's ultimately his decision

LizFlowers · 02/02/2021 08:23

I can assure you I am saying nothing! I won't break the habit of a life time and have never believed in interfering in the lives of adults. I just wondered....

What I want is for them to be happy.

Nothing is going to be happening in a hurry anyway, not while non essential travel isn't allowed.

I'll come back next year and tell you where we're at - unless I have an update before then of course.

Thanks - it has helped.

OP posts:
SmeleanorSmellstrop · 02/02/2021 08:47

Honestly although well-meaning, I think you are being judgemental and discriminatory. My best friend's mum is schizophrenic and they have a wonderful life with 4 children and very rare issues caused by her illness. If you say anything I think you will really hurt him and risk alienating him from you. He is an adult man, not a vulnerable child.

Fieldofyellowflowers · 02/02/2021 08:49

TBH, if I was in his shoes, I would probably want a 2nd opinion from an English doctor, just because I trust English doctors more. The US does have a reputation for being very heavy handed when it comes to mental health. Whether that is true or not I don't know.

Yes she is going to need medication, which is why they should do some research/ get a second opinion to find out what their options are. It could be that she needs the medication that has already been prescribed. Or there could be other alternatives that don't cause these side effects.

As for their relationship. Having schizophrenia doesn't mean that she can't be a really good wife or mother. Yes it may go wrong, but that is the same for any relationship.

SmeleanorSmellstrop · 02/02/2021 08:50

Also agree it might not be so easy for her to come and live in the UK. It's bloody difficult for a non-EU citizen to move to the UK. The whole process is horribly long and stressful and might not be for the best for someone with a mental health condition. It's really intense and difficult.

LizFlowers · 02/02/2021 09:50

TheVanguardSix: ... it depends on the child's father's support in such a move.
....
Fiancee was widowed a few years ago, her husband was knocked down by a truck. She really could do with a bit of good luck and they were so, so happy! It was lovely to behold (in 2019).
............

Anyway thanks for further comments everyone. I've decided to say nothing. They can't make any major life changes for the foreseeable anyway but I do hope she receives adequate medical treatment where she is. People live perfectly good and fulfilled lives with mental health problems if they have decent treatment.

She lives in such a remote place and at the moment I don't suppose she would even be allowed to travel somewhere out of her state to get a second opinion. I'm not sure she would have the confidence to do that on her own anyway; mum and dad have health problems and are on waiting list for transplants.

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