My children can be ghastly and my DP is struggling to enjoy family life!

[occupationalhazard123]

I am at my wits end trying to hold everything together and keep every one happy! I have two DDs 9 and19 and a DP who has been a family friend for many years and we have been together for a year now. We are really happy, get on brilliantly, love being with each other and have a great time. However, he has never had children or lived in a family environment and finds the constant madness of family life challenging after living on his own for many years. He really tries hard, is a lot of fun and has helped with home schooling when I am at my wits end. We do have really lovely family days and he enjoys the simple pleasures of dog walks, picnics etc. My problem is that my children even by my own admission are extremely hard work and I am constantly covering up for their bad behaviour. The eldest is at uni but over Christmas pushed us all to the edge with her general moodiness, constant sniping at her sister, total lack of help around the house etc etc. The youngest is a completely different character and hard work in different ways. She is generally more loving and a sweet soul but she is extremely full on, talks endlessly (which I realise is not a terrible thing!), is an incredibly fussy and disinterested eater, which makes every meal time a battle, absolutely never does as she is told without me asking every tiny thing many times over and is highly emotional! All of this may sound like quite normal childish behaviour but I sometimes wonder how things have ended up like this and when I see these behaviours (that I clearly have not managed properly) through the eyes of another person (ie my partner) it makes me feel really sad. When we are all here family mealtimes are unbearable and I can see my partner wishing he was elsewhere. Doing anything as a family is a non starter as the children start bickering and it is awful (even though the eldest is actually an adult!). I am really frightened that he will decide that with the best will in the world he really cannot cope with this, much less enjoy it. Lockdown obviously hasn't helped as home schooling brings it's own pressures and there is little respite overall. My youngest daughter adores my DP and would be devastated if things were to fall apart.
As background my husband (DDs father) died 6 years ago and I have been on my own since. I really want to emphasise that the behaviours in my DDs are not a result of them losing their dad though, they were present long before this and my husband used to find it extremely difficult too!
I realise there is no magic bullet for this situation but I'd be interested to hear from anyone who has found themselves in a similar situation. What did you do?

You must not blame yourself. Bickering, food fussiness, getting emotional and needing nagging to do the tiniest fucking thing are all normal at the best of times let alone this year. Real life isn’t the Waltons! My dc get on my wick as well. My moody (asd) teen’s limited beige diet seems to shrink every day as yet more previously acceptable food is added to the list of ‘I don’t like it any more’ and the smell in his room could knock a pit pony out. My emotional 11 year old has been in floods of tears this last few weeks over issues as varied as: missing the cats (who died 6 and 5 years ago), his foot ‘feeling weird’, his ears ‘feeling hot’, having a dream about a man standing at the end of his bed, knocking a glass of water over, and his quesadilla going wrong and sticking to the pan. Sometimes i wish i was far away from them both and that’s with the special love bond that comes from having pushed them out of my vagina.

It’s ok for him to feel like this, but unless you talk to him you don’t know that ‘being a bit irritated sometimes’ is definitely a deal breaker for him. I’d be very surprised if it was as I don’t know anyone in a relationship that doesn’t irritate them from time to time.

What are your living arrangements? Does he still have his own place? If he lived a happily single life before meeting you, he must be used to having his own space and missing that. So think about how you can make that happen for him, and don’t take it personally or as a portent of doom if that’s what he needs from time to time. But you don’t know that for sure if you don’t talk to him. Just talk to him.

Thank you!
I have talked to him about it and he admitted he found xmas difficult. 'Deal breaker' wasn't mentioned thank goodness! You're right that he was used to a nice single quiet life and was very happy with that. He is one of these people who is genuinely happy in their own company and wasnt looking for a relationship. We have know each other a long time and had started to spend more and more time together and realised that despite neither of us particularly wanting a relationship we wanted to be together! The living arrangements are that because of all the lockdowns this year he has been thrown into our environment more than would be normal. He has his own house but it is 300 miles away so he hardly every gets there. I know I really need to make sure he has time to himself and I do try to do that - he works from my garden office for example so that has become something of a man cave!

And looking at your family life through other people’s eyes will always be a recipe for disaster and second guessing yourself op. Look at how posters on here can get into a blazing row with one another over how often you should wash your bra or change your bedding. If my mother saw the inside of my oven she would faint dead away. I have dear dear friends in whose houses (in non covid times) i try to avoid touching surfaces. So what? I am queen in my own castle and i do things the way that suits me and my dc. And so does my mother and so do my friends. You’ve been through hell it sounds like so if anyone has earned the right to be queen in her own castle and run the show the way she sees fit, it’s you op. The question is how to accommodate your partner’s (as yet hypothetical) need for peace and space while maintaining your relationship. But coming from a years long friendship, it sounds like you are very well placed to work things out in a way that makes you both happy.

Has your DP actually said anything to you about being unable to cope?

This might not be a problem that actually exists. You're probably right that he isn't enjoying mealtimes with your DC - people not used to being around children aren't always very good at disguising their discomfort when family environments get a bit much - but that doesn't mean he wants out. He may have to grit his teeth but he may also be perfectly willing to do so for the sake of his relationship with you - and with your daughters. If your youngest loves him then there's clearly a lot of time when he IS happy in her company.

So there may not be a problem at all, and another factor that makes it even less of a problem is the fact that you're clearly empathetic and aware of his feelings. That goes a long way - you might not be able to magically make your DC behave angelically but you're obviously trying to do the little things that make life easier.

A little chat with him won't hurt though - say you can see he finds the madness of family life a bit much at times and maybe ask how happy he is with the situation, see if there's anything he actually wants. You don't say whether he's living with you or not? If he isn't, then he presumably gets to have enough time to himself to recharge anyway. If he is, well, being on top of one another is just life for everyone right now...

Does he live with you?

Oh, cross-posted - you've already talked to him!

Honestly it sounds like a good outcome. Finding it difficult but not a deal-breaker sounds like a normal response. I think you both seem to have a lot of empathy for what the other needs and that will stand you in good stead even if no one actively enjoys mealtimes for the time being!

@MadameButterface
It's so nice to see sound advice delivered in such a calm, polite and supportive manner, I do really like this community but it can be so intentionally hurtful at times.

Only advice I have to offer OP is constant open communication, you seem to be well tuned into the potential for your partner to be overwhelmed by this new life he's embarking on with you and your girls. It can't be easy for him, as it's not even easy for you, their Mum who has unconditional love for these girls. FWIW you sound like a lovely Mum and a sensitive partner and are realistic about the situation. That's all you can do - I really do hope it all works out for you x

I can’t remember the last time i enjoyed a meal time 😭 apart from the bit where everyone fucks off back to their festering pits and i put the archers on and stack the dishwasher. We’re not meant to be all in each other’s faces all the live long day, but it is what it is 😁

it’s great that you’ve been able to talk op, and it’s fab that he has his own space to disappear to. Having his own place, even if he doesn’t actually spend that much time there, is good news for both of you - for him i bet it’s reassuring that he could go there if he absolutely needed to for whatever reason, and for you, it shows you that he is with you in your house because he is choosing to be. Stop doing yourself down op, your eldest lived through the covid a level kerfuffle and has got herself to uni, and your youngest is so secure in your love that she feels safe enough to show you the full range of her many many many emotions. You have a solid relationship with a lovely man where you can discuss things promptly and honestly as they arise and not take the huff with each other. You’re knocking it out of the fucking park, stop doubting yourself.

Thank you all so much, I feel so much better already! I do try to keep the lines of communication open but sometimes it's difficult to hear that your children are less than perfect and sometimes a total nightmare! I think perhaps I just want things to be some version of perfect, which of course life at the moment isn't for anyone. My friend says I am perhaps too sensitive about the situation too and that may be true. Anyway, thanks all for your thoughts, it is really helping!

Yes, don't forget that your eldest has lived through some spectacularly shit past few months between the A-levels shitshow and then a first uni term that would've been boring and isolating at best and hellish at worst. Definitely not surprising if she's moody and no reflection on you!

When you talk about doing stuff as “a family” and mealtimes being impossible - do you mean as the 4 of you or the 3 of you? Was this the same before DP came on the scene?

It sounds like YOU are not happy with the DCs behaviour (nor was your deceased husband) - what do you think went wrong / is going on? Or is it an expectations thing?

You only had one child for 10 years - how was this? Did she change behaviour when her baby sister arrived?

And your youngest was only 3 when your DH died - what were your expectations of her then? Was your DH ill for sometime before he died - if so I imagine this would have brought pain and distress to the home.

It seems you have had a lot to manage raising two daughters, alone and grieving. I wonder if their behaviours are stuck at the ages when their father died and their world stopped?

Do you want it to change? Do you believe it can? Have any of you had grief counselling? Can you tackle one simple thing at a time? It would be a huge relief to both of your DD and to yourself - never mind the BF - if behaviours changed and tensions eased.

I am at my wits end trying to hold everything together and keep every one happy!

And there is the issue right there.

Better to focus on the long game - household is a team, where everyone is expected to muck in and behave with basic kindness and respect - might be a bit uncomfortable to change gears at first and not everyone will be happy immediately but in time you will have a calm and peaceful home.

“Constantly covering up for their bad behaviour”
That’s not the job of a parent though. It is to set clear and consistent boundaries and follow through with consequences when kids test those boundaries.
Older one. Basic expectations. What helping do you want? Be nice or go for a bloody long walk. Don’t take your moodiness out on your sister!
Younger one. Do “x”. If not then consequence.
Meals. Dish up. Eat or go hungry!

You know what OP my 22 year old left home a good freckles years ago now but by the time he was 12 I realised the ideal of nice family meals round the table just annoyed him, annoyed me and him and my H would end up arguing. So I stopped it and made it that Sunday dinner (early evening) was all of us round the table, all other meals (and I like cooking) tended to be either on our knees or me and H only at the table. Peace resumed , I didn’t have to feel tense and that WW111 would break out or look at him picking over food. I am past the stage of thinking we had to look like the bistro family, all enjoying it And full of jolly tales etc

Try to answer a few of the questions. Eldest was an angel when she was little but completely changed at puberty - everything changed, even her hair texture! Littlest is a completely different kettle of fish and has always been a handful! I do of course try to manage the behaviours but there is so much of it it feels like constant crisis management. I say in no uncertain terms to the eldest 'be nice to your sister and stop winding her up' but she then thinks I am just having a go at her and nothing really changes. I think she sees it as banter. I only try to keep the worst of the behaviour from my DP just because he really doesn't need to see the worst of the sass and cheek. I do deal with it with the children directly.
when I say doing things as a family is a non starter I mean the 4 of us - DP, me and the little one is generally fine. I arrange things for just me and the girls to make sure we have time together but that generally descends into bickering, but I persevere of course. I'm probably descending into too much detail here - the bottom line is trying to mange normal annoying children behaviour whilst also trying not to push DP who is used to a quiet life, over the edge!

yetmorecrap - I hear you! Before DP came on the scene I had started to give little DD dinner earlier and older DD later just for a quiet life! Not me, little DD and DP eat quite happily together, but the eating issues are just annoying but no WW3. WHen eldest DD is here I persevere with family meals and it's not always WW3, just silly niggling.

I only try to keep the worst of the behaviour from my DP just because he really doesn't need to see the worst of the sass and cheek. I do deal with it with the children directly

Very thoughtful of you but don't be afraid to lean on your DP if you need to!

You don't need to pretend to be perfect for your partner... while he might not be able to deal with their moods directly, telling him you're finding it tough and you need a hug isn't a sign of weakness or anything that'll make him take fright - it's something he can provide for you (and if he's as good as he seems, he'll want to provide emotional support).

gannett - you're right of course, but I do find it difficult to show any weakness or ask for help. Having managed on my own for many years it doesn't come easily. DP does step in and help - I do need to get better at asking too.

I would agree that doing things as a family as a 4 is a non starter because you are not a family wrt the 19 year old - so fine to work around that. Don’t force it. Also it is hard to find things for a 9 year old and a 19 year old to do - so again just do one to ones. It’s more important to build trust with each than try to force them together.

It sounds tough for your oldest DD - to be an only for 10 years, to go through hell at puberty and then the deep loss of her Dad. Does she need some extra attention emotionally.......? Which isn’t the same as allowing her to snipe and bully a young 9 year old - who I suspect has been bullied all her life. What are the consequences you put in place when she is unkind to her younger sister?